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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Aug 2010
Notes left: 467
Last seen at: Marioland
Quote:
You think you wouldn't feel guilt, even over a mercy killing?

Noooooo, I' m referring to the ending dialog.
If you don' t like visual metaphors and prefer facts written with black ink on white paper then just watch the ending :
Mary : "I told you that I wanted to die James"
James : "That' s why I did it honey, I just couldn' t watch you suffer ... No, that' s not true. You also said ... you didn' t wanna die. The truth is ... I hated you. I wanted you out of the way ! I wanted my life back."
Here at 21:30
No mercy kill AT ALL, TRUE end of the self-delusion.
Femme objet. Deal with it.

Quote:
I'm just pointing out that what you think you see isn't the only way it can be seen.

Of course not, it' s just that ...

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he was killing her as much out of pity for her suffering, and probably more so that than because she was being a bitch.

... THAT' s wrong and is exactly what James was deluded into. Since he knew that was just a delusion he plunged into an even more far-fetched delusion. It' s not just the way I want to look at the story, it IS the story as it is told.

Quote:
But to try and put it on everything you see is simply what you want to see.

It' s what the town wants James to see. The boy really can' t take a hint, might as well unleash full force and magnify everything.

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why is it not so "obvious" to a lot of us.

You tell me ! Maybe you feel sympathetic towards James and would like to find him excuses when even James himself doesn' t ? There are lots of ways to interpret the various designs but the most obvious one, the one that always comes to mind first and stays undeniable in the long run is the sexual one. It' s not just a "maybe". When I see two pair of legs sewn to each others I think "sex" first, not "run away from the truth of what he did" or "confusion". I' m wacky that way. Come on, honestly, who didn' t think "sex" ?
I' m not saying your way to see things is wrong, just that it' s not the obvious, absolutely undeniable one.


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 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 May 2008
Notes left: 1541
Last seen at: Right behind you
I didn't see sex. In fact my first thought was "fucking weird". My second was "SHIT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!"

It's not obvious, nor undeniable to me or many others here. Your logic is flawed in that sense. Sorry. Matters of perception are usually not so cut and dry as you're trying to make them..

patman wrote:
Quote:
You think you wouldn't feel guilt, even over a mercy killing?


Noooooo, I' m referring to the ending dialog.
If you don' t like visual metaphors and prefer facts written with black ink on white paper then just watch the ending :
Mary : "I told you that I wanted to die James"
James : "That' s why I did it honey, I just couldn' t watch you suffer ... No, that' s not true. You also said ... you didn' t wanna die. The truth is ... I hated you. I wanted you out of the way ! I wanted my life back."
Here at 21:30
No mercy kill AT ALL, TRUE end of the self-delusion.
Femme objet. Deal with it.


Again, failed argument. It was just as easily him demonizing himself to justify his punishment, much as a young person who accidentally kills an animal might claim he did it on purpose to get a stronger punishment. After all, he felt he needed to be punished, and that's why there is a SH2 game to begin with. Mary refutes it with the next statement: "If that were true James, then why do you look so sad?"
The way the statement is worded is very important, since at this point, Mary is probably a construct of his subconscious. Basically, it's a facet of himself railing back saying "Don't be ridiculous. You know better than that."

Again, there is not just one way to see events, and your self righteous attitude telling others they are wrong when you simply refuse to see anything else is absurd. I scoff at you, and blow my nose in your hankey, sir. :P

I'm not defending James; I have no personal stake in his absolution. He is a collection of pixels and sounds. I'm merely stating that in the context of the story, the absolutes you try to impress simply don't exist.

Deal with it.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
Oh, come on guys.
It probably was meant to be taken both ways, and also ways nobody's even thought of.

That's what OPEN interpretation means. Do we really need to do all this again? Let's play nice.

Consequently, I'm sure my opinion on it doesn't matter because I see EVERYTHING as relating to sex, so I'm unreliable here.
I actually liked mikefile's comment best anyways.

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viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 May 2008
Notes left: 1541
Last seen at: Right behind you
Well, I was having fun. I thought I was playing nice.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
Good boy. You get a caramel apple for playing nice. <3

Side note: That video honestly was the only the time I've seen the mannequins falling out of the sky. I don't know how I missed it every time.

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The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Aug 2010
Notes left: 467
Last seen at: Marioland
Quote:
your self righteous attitude telling others they are wrong when you simply refuse to see anything else is absurd. I scoff at you, and blow my nose in your hankey, sir. :P

I can see you take it the wrong way. I' m not trying to piss you off. Please keep in mind that I' m French, it takes me thrice the time (at least) to formulate complex thoughts in English than it would in French. I don' t even know what a hankey is ! I tend to use irony cause it' s a useful shortcut. I' ll stop immediately since you don' t seem to like it.

Quote:
at this point, Mary is probably a construct of his subconscious.

Emphasis on "probably". Since it' s open to debate I' ll jump to the next point.

Quote:
Again, there is not just one way to see events

Again, agreed. I' m talking about one precise event : James killing Mary.
I can only think of one way to see the event. He strangled his wife with her own pillow and she wasn' t even sleeping.
You can ponder James motives all that you want the act is what it is. That' s not a delicate way to send someone. Are you gonna tell me that his murder, the act itself, is anything but triggered by a drop of water that broke the camel' s back ? Whatever James' motives were, even if he thought about doing it for a long time and for good reasons, the way he did it screams impulsive to me. Something made him snap and do it. What could it be but a nasty line from Mary ?
If you got another way to look at what triggers James to murder Mary at that precise moment and the way he did it I' m all ears, I honestly cannot conceive another way to look at it, so yeah, I take it as facts. I' m not being malicious here, if you have another explanation to that I' m really curious as to what it could be.
Ultimately the way Mary is murdered makes her a METAPHOR for a femme objet. Heavy emphasis on "metaphor". In turn the town sent heavy metaphors of that. Again, emphasis on metaphor. The town likes metaphors. Players too, since it leaves room for interpretation. (The really really obvious one being sex to me but since you say that sex never came to your mind I guess I' ll have to deal with that).


Last edited by Patman on 30 Oct 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 May 2008
Notes left: 1541
Last seen at: Right behind you
Patman wrote:
Quote:
your self righteous attitude telling others they are wrong when you simply refuse to see anything else is absurd. I scoff at you, and blow my nose in your hankey, sir. :P

I can see you take it the wrong way. I' m not trying to piss you off. Please keep in mind that I' m French, it takes me thrice the time (at least) to formulate complex thoughts in English than it would in French. I don' t even know what a hankey is ! I tend to use irony cause it' s a useful shortcut. I' ll stop immediately since you don' t seem to like it.
This was a joke. Basically, I was playing at being snobby and saying I'd blow my nose in your own personal handkerchief. If your English doesn't understand that word, personal towel works as well. that remark was tongue in cheek. You weren't pissing me off. I was in jest. that's why the smiley.

Quote:
Quote:
at this point, Mary is probably a construct of his subconscious.

Emphasis on "probably". Since it' s open to debate I' ll jump to the next point.

Yes. Probably. Again, I'm not selling my point of view as the only one available. I'm merely offering alternatives that actually jumped off the screen at me the first time I saw things.

Quote:
Quote:
Again, there is not just one way to see events

Again, agreed. I' m talking about one precise event : James killing Mary.
I can only think of one way to see the event. He strangled his wife with her own pillow and she wasn' t even sleeping.
You can ponder James motives all that you want the act is what it is. That' s not a delicate way. Are you gonna tell me that his murder, the act itself, is anything but triggered by a drop of water that broke the camel' s back ? Whatever James' motives were, even if he thought about doing it for a long time and for good reasons, the way he did it screams impulsive to me. Something made him snap and do it. What could it be but a nasty line from Mary ?
If you got another way to look at what triggers James to murder Mary at that precise moment and the way he did it I' m all ears, I honestly cannot conceive another way to look at it, so yeah, I take it as facts. I' m not being malicious here, if you have another explanation to that I' m really curious as to what it could be.
Ultimately the way Mary is murdered makes her a METAPHOR for a femme objet. Heavy emphasis on "metaphor". In turn the town sent heavy metaphors of that. Again, emphasis on metaphor. The town likes metaphors. Players too, since it leaves room for interpretation. (The really really obvious ones being sex to me but since you say that sex never came to your mind I guess I' ll have to deal with that).

I agree on most of this actually. What finally set him off was his desire to be rid of her acerbic tongue and her lasting burden on him. He had to have known she'd be dead within days; the doctors would have told him as much when he picked her up.

I won't say she wasn't asleep. She doesn't move until the pillow is already firmly over her face. A pillow to the face would probably wake you up.

As for la femme objet, I don't deny this as a possible explanation. I bet the film was good too. ;) I think you've argued past my point, though. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I really just don't get the same impression from some of these events as you do. Call it a cultural difference, and age difference, whatever it is, we just don't see things quite the same. No harm here. :)

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 3855
Last seen at: i'm sick of these monkey fighting snakes on this monday to friday plane.
Not gonna lie the first time i saw the flying mannequin i started laughing, thought they looked pretty funny flying over the fence like that. The rest of the game is pretty scary though.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 567
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
I agree partially with both of you. I'm not sure if she's asleep, but as paladin 181 said she doesn't move untill the the pillow is already firmly over her face. But he does lean near her, and it seemed to me as he kissed her before doing the gruesome act, like saying: "Goodnight!", or better: "Goodbye". I'm not sure he ment: "Burn in hell you selfish bitch!". So the way he did it was kind of delicate.. not denying the frustration..

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: What up with the flying mannequins?
     
         
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Missing since: 28 Mar 2006
Notes left: 104
Patman wrote:


I think I remember that part now, it was pretty creepy hehe.

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