Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

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Reposted from http://www.igotaletter.com/insight/role ... mid-thing/
Not finished yet. Attempt to gather ideas on all aspects of RPT, much of which is not new, admittedly. Feel free to tear it apart. Sources of quotes and things can be found at the URL above.


Pyramid Head is the most instantly-recognizable character in the Silent Hill series. Many have argued over what the Red Pyramid Thing symbolizes and what his real role is in the game. Certainly, upon first glance, he seems to be the main villain of the game. After a sighting of him through the bars in the apartments, we witness him abusing and killing other monsters twice, then we face off with him in the staircase area.

However, the encounters with RPT aren’t as straightforward as they seem as first. Though that first encounter feels like a “boss battle” the first time you play, you soon realize that RPT is not your average video game boss. Bosses have to be killed to progress. In order to make progress in Silent Hill, James needs only face the Red Pyramid Thing. He can’t defeat him.

Ito has explained RPT’s main role as follows:
Masahiro Ito wrote:The Pyramid Head, he is another James and he makes James realize his guilt. So he attacks other creatures on James’s delusion. When James realizes he is guilty from the bottom of his heart, Pyramid Head kills himself because his duty is no longer needed/
RPT and Rape
Jeremy Blaustein wrote:Ridiculous, the intention is clear and no thinking person would seriously argue that point [that PH didn't rape anything]. The SH team would laugh... [Team Silent] talk about how the Americans ruined the death motifs and sexual motifs by being so overt.... Well in the case of the US Silent Hill games, it is not repression [causing players to deny that it is rape] but a kind of juvenile literalness to it all.
Some have suggested the apartment “rape scene” serves only to tell the player of James’ repressed sexuality following Mary’s illness. I disagree. Jeremy Blaustein has stated that the team definitely intended this scene to have sexual implications2. As we know, Mary felt ugly and unattractive, and she was in pain. She didn’t seem particularly pleasant to be around, either, judging from the hallway conversation. We don’t know to what extent James may have been thinking about other women, but we do know it’s unlikely their sex life was that great toward the end. Several of the monsters, especially the mannequins, represent sexual urges. The nurses are sexualized, with their cleavage and short dresses. While there are sexual themes in the game, I don’t think the kitchen scene is all about sex, necessarily. It is also an homage to the film Blue Velvet, but I also think that’s not the whole purpose.

Some have denied the sex theme of the scene because there is no penetration, but this is not a valid rebuttal because they could not have gotten away with showing graphic rape in a video game. The sounds and movements only suggest sexual violence, rather than portraying it graphically.

But why would RPT rape monsters? Some have said it’s just to portray James’ sexual desires, but rape is usually not about lust. James may well have had unfulfilled sexual desires, but I’m not sure it would be portrayed in this fashion. Rape is more often about violence, humiliation, and/or domination. It occurs in the animal kingdom. And primates like baboons will show submission by offering up their backsides to the stronger male in the group. The same goes for mounting behaviors, such as a dog humping your leg. The dog has no sexual desire directed at your calves. It isn’t under the delusion that there are sexybits on your knee. It may be that the dog is just randy, but it is more often a dominance behavior. If it were trying to mate, it would find an appropriate partner and it would not miss its target and mount the wrong part of the other dog. If it were about procreation, female dogs would not mount other females or humans, and they do. Rape and mounting in animals is not about sex at all; it is about showing the other party who’s boss. (And likewise, in humans, if it were about sex, a rapist would probably just hire a sex worker. But it’s not, it’s about dominating the other party against their will.) I think this is what is going on with RPT and the mannequins/lying figure. RPT is not trying to make sweet love to any monsters; he is showing everyone that he’s in charge (his power is also shown in the fact that the monsters die, rather than slinking away with their tails between their legs). And if RPT is in charge, James is really in charge, if he chooses to be. He can come to Silent Hill to face his sins, or to forget everything.

The Spear and Great Knife

Can the Great Knife and spear be seen as phallic objects? Any fan of Freud would tell you that anything longer than it is wide can be interpreted as phallic. Maybe it’s just due to ratings, but we never actually see RPT’s naughty bits. We do, however, see his dominance over other monsters. The words “potence” comes from the Latin for “power,” yet has come to be associated with male sexuality. “Impotence” is more commonly used to refer to “inability to perform sexually” than “lack of power.” Just as men with big or fancy cars are said to be overcompensating for something else, one might see RPT’s enormous knife as a phallic object. But again, it’s not about lust; it’s about violence. It’s been said that RPT abruptly stops doing sexual/rapelike things after the apartments, but that’s not necessarily so. He’s the masculine monster, Maria is the feminine monster, and he keeps thrusting long objects into her (in a rapelike way, that is to say, violent; rather than a lustful way). He’s asserting his dominance as the punisher by overpowering the weaker but more comforting delusion, Maria.
Guilt and Denial

As a sort of mirror image of James, RPT is separated from any other monsters in the game. The other monsters embody aspects of James’ psyche, including his sexuality, but only RPT is helpful to James on his journey through Silent Hill. Besides things like leading him in the right direction through some areas, he helps James to uncover the truth about why he is in Silent Hill. Maria, on the other hand, often only adds to his delusions4.

RPT keeps him moving onward toward his ultimate goal of realizing what he’s done and facing his guilt. RPT leads him through the apartments, the labyrinth, the hotel, and all the while, RPT is also fighting James’ delusions: namely, Maria. Maria, who was “born from a wish,” allows James to live in his more comfortable delusion that Mary is still alive in a way, or that she died from her disease and has been replaced with a “better” version. While he’s around Maria, James cannot come to terms with the events leading up to the game. RPT killing Maria repeatedly parallels James killing Mary, but it also is James fighting off his own delusions or defense-mechanisms and denial about killing Mary. Toward the end, even the Maria manifestation seems to be breaking down. She goes from being flirty and sexy to having a colder personality, and she says things only Mary could know. James becomes confused, asking her if she’s really Maria. “I am, if you want me to be.” It is as though James is making one large, final effort to deny what he did to Mary; to not face his guilt. But as soon as he leaves the room, RPT apparently comes in and kills her again. Even before the final Maria scene, where she’s strung up by two spear-toting RPTs, it’s apparent that RPT is after Maria, not James. Sure, he can kill you in the game, but you’re supposed to survive by avoiding his attacks. He always kills Maria, and he does so again and again.
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Why Two Pyramid Heads?

Another subject of debate is why there were two RPTs in the final hotel area. Some have speculated that two have been running around all along, but I don’t see the evidence as being sufficient to prove this. I find it more likely that, until the point James watches the video, there is only one RPT. Then he goes back through the hotel to the final area. It’s worth noting that, right before this room, even the save squares are multiplied. There are nine, where there has only ever been one at a time before. This is undoubtedly to call them to your attention to get you to save then, however. After going through the next door, we view a scene where Maria is strung up upside down. While there have been many monsters in boxes in the game, this is visually closest to the Mary monster we meet in the final area. On either side of her on the platform area, there is a Pyramid Head. She is stabbed with a spear. The two RPTs are then on the ground with James, who must avoid their attacks until they fall on their spears. While it’s possible that one RPT is to represent killing Mary and the other Eddie, this seems unlikely to me. Of course James is conflicted about killing Mary, but he had to kill Eddie, or Eddie would have killed him. While it’s possible he still feels pretty bad about it, I’m not sure it warrants the creation of another RPT. I find it more likely that the multiplying of the RPTs is due to an increase in James’ guilt after viewing the videotape.

It is interesting that the RPTs kill themselves with their spears, similar to falling on one’s sword, which is the Western equivalent of the Japanese hara-kiri. In hara-kira, a samurai would commit suicide by disembowelment rather than surrender. Falling on one’s sword also has the connotation of refusing to be captured or defeated. This may be because James cannot kill RPT. Certainly, by that point, the player has tried to numerous times. All James can do is avoid him. Once he’s avoided him for a while, and since James has admitted his guilt, RPT is no longer needed. Since James can’t kill them, they kill themselves (since they can't be defeated or surrender to James.)

The Eggs

After the RPTs are dead, James will notice two identical locked doors with round holes in them. Examining the dead RPTs will allow James to collect an egg from each of them. The eggs fit in the holes and unlock the doors, but one has to admit that it seems quite odd. Why eggs? And why two doors leading to the same place? James was sort of split before this, Pyramid Head represented an aspect of him that manifested totally externally. Two doors leading to one place could mean that James is just one entity again, without needing external manifestations of his guilt or anything else.

An egg is an odd thing for a Pyramid Head to give you. Eggs could represent birth, or life. There is a rust colored egg and a scarlet egg. It has been suggested that the eggs could represent Mary (the rust-colored one, since she was sick and decayed in a way) and Eddie (scarlet, since he was just killed), but again, I just don’t think Eddie is that important to James. Another theory could be that one represents Mary (rust, same reasons) and the other, Maria (scarlet, because she is more lively and vibrant). I find this more likely to be true, because much of the game centers on the duality of Mary/Maria and the contrast between the two. Mary is sick, ugly, unhappy. Maria is lively, flirtatious, and sexy. Moreover, the fight with the two RPTS allows him to face both what happened to Mary and why he created Maria, and he feels guilt for both. He feels guilty that he killed his wife, and he feels guilty that he created this idealized version of her in Silent Hill. Mary was already dead by this point, but he also needed Maria to be dead, once and for all, to move on.

RPT’s Appearance
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Why is Pyramid Head similar in appearance to the executioners of Silent Hill’s past? It may partly be just because he looks scarier that way. Executioners in the past have sometimes worn hoods to retain some anonymity, to protect themselves from the family and friends of those they were executing. A hood (or, in RPT’s case, a helmet) also keeps us from seeing the expression on the executioner’s face; they remain more of a mystery to us. We don’t know if they are calm or angry or sad. In RPT’s case, we don’t even know if he’s human under there. Ito has created a lot of monsters whose eyes cannot be seen, and this tends to increase their monstrousness. “The eyes are the window to the soul.” If we can’t see the eyes, the creature is unreadable, or perhaps soulless.

RPT is an executioner, but he’s not there to execute James. If he were, he’d be a normal video game boss and we’d kill him right there in the apartments and move on. Instead, he is there to execute James’ delusions. He kills Maria repeatedly until James comes to terms with his own guilt. Since James no longer needs RPT’s guidance, the RPTs then kill themselves.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

Does Jeremy Blaustein ever actually call it 'rape'? Is there some quote to this effect where he uses that actual term? Because, it seems as though you're extrapolating 'rape' from 'sexual implications' (which is precisely what I believe it is), and 'sexual implications' is by no means a term which is synonymous with 'rape'.

It's not as if there's even still a really good explanation for why it must be 'rape'. Dominance doesn't work, because why establish dominance and do nothing with it? The RPT does not, in any way, interact with any other monsters after the alleged rape. If that's what it really is, then we have an instance of mostly-irrelevant symbolism delivered with a sledgehammer. Worse still because James' story is almost entirely one of moral ambiguity, where his very vital sin, that of killing his wife, can be justified. Rape cannot ever be justifiable. It is one of those rare human behaviors that is outside of pretty much every moral code. This would establish RPT as a clearly evil entity. Outside of that, rape does absolutely nothing to further the RPTs purposes, as it does not punish James, remind James of anything he did, or really do anything except excite people who think rape makes a person bad ass.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

alone in the town wrote:Does Jeremy Blaustein ever actually call it 'rape'? Is there some quote to this effect where he uses that actual term? Because, it seems as though you're extrapolating 'rape' from 'sexual implications' (which is precisely what I believe it is), and 'sexual implications' is by no means a term which is synonymous with 'rape'.
Here is my question that led to his answer above via skype:
nur_ein_tier wrote:"Yeah, there is still the debate on whether or not Pyramid head is raping or nonsexually torturing the monsters, too."
So yes, he was responding that PH is raping monsters.
alone in the town wrote:Dominance doesn't work, because why establish dominance and do nothing with it? The RPT does not, in any way, interact with any other monsters after the alleged rape. If that's what it really is, then we have an instance of mostly-irrelevant symbolism delivered with a sledgehammer. Worse still because James' story is almost entirely one of moral ambiguity, where his very vital sin, that of killing his wife, can be justified. Rape cannot ever be justifiable. It is one of those rare human behaviors that is outside of pretty much every moral code. This would establish RPT as a clearly evil entity. Outside of that, rape does absolutely nothing to further the RPTs purposes, as it does not punish James, remind James of anything he did, or really do anything except excite people who think rape makes a person bad ass.
No real, living humans are raped, though, and monster-rape might be justifiable. I dunno. I disagree that it does nothing with dominance. Nothing with the dominance imposed on those specific monsters, but what I meant was general dominance over the monsters in the game.

JB also said (and others have said) that SH2 is "all about the monstrous sides of people." Rape=monstrous. Incest=monstrous. Murder=monstrous. I don't think there is necessarily always more to it than that.
Sato wrote: "Making Silent Hill, we just thought about making something horrific first, and then worked on the plot. "
http://www.igotaletter.com/media/articl ... ilent_Hill
Blaustein wrote: "...things [in first 2 games] that were never meant to have such an internal logic because they were not all thought out that far... Japanese prefer to NOT tell everything."
Not to mention the whole scene being more or less lifted from Blue Velvet.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

Well, your question was 'rape' or 'nonsexual torture', and I don't think it's either of those things. Sexual implication falls in-between. Almost every monster in this game carries sexual implication.

Also, you later assert that Pyramid Head's purpose is to help James, which I agree with, and that leads me to ask what benefit James derives from monster rape? It must be something really important, because it doesn't just happen once. If it's to proclaim his dominance over monsters, I don't see how that helps James at all, or what point there is to even establishing a hierarchy among his mental creations when that concept is never explored to any degree whatsoever.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

I think it's rape. There was more to that but the transcript is on my other computer. The Blue Velvet reference also supports rape.

Well, if rape doesn't help James, how does torturing monsters help James?

If RPT is "another James," then RPT abusing monsters (in any way) would serve to show James that he has power over monsters (the minor ones, as well as Maria). There is a hierarchy: James and RPT above everyone else. RPT repeatedly shows dominance over monsters and Maria using violence and/or sexual violence. This shows James he can overcome the monsters and doesn't need Maria around, and if he overcomes the monsters (representing his guilt, denial, fears, etc) he comes to terms with what he's done and can move on.
Well, your question was 'rape' or 'nonsexual torture', and I don't think it's either of those things.
what exactly are the shades of grey between the two? Nonsexual violence is not sexual. If he's torturing them in a sexual way, I'm still inclined to call that "rape." It's still unwanted, violent sexual assault.
Last edited by nur_ein_tier on 03 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

I think it's rape. There was more to that but the transcript is on my other computer. The
Blue Velvet reference also supports rape.
One of the alleged rape scenes is not a reference to that movie.
Well, if rape doesn't help James, how does torturing monsters help James?
I've never viewed it as torture in the sense that the object was to intentionally cause pain, rather, that he was killing in a crude manner and it just happens to not be very pleasant. Just as I can't see rape as anything but pointless, so I see the act of intentional torture.
If RPT is "another James," then RPT abusing monsters (in any way) would serve to show James that he has power over monsters (the minor ones, as well as Maria). There is a hierarchy: James and RPT above everyone else.
But, what's the point of establishing this? It's already obvious that Pyramid Head is more dangerous than the others the very first time you see him standing there and just staring at you. If for no other reason than I'm genre-savvy and I automatically elevate obvious boss monsters above the cloned mook monsters without being told. Further, I already got the point about James because I've beaten a dozen monsters to death with my stick by the time I see this little scene play out.

And, even forgetting all of that, is there even a point to the idea of dominance and hierarchy? I don't see what role it plays in the story. James doesn't really ever deal with whatever alpha-male tendencies he may or may not have, because they have nothing to do with his dilemma.
what exactly are the shades of grey between the two? Nonsexual violence is not sexual. If he's torturing them in a sexual way, I'm still inclined to call that "rape." It's still unwanted, violent sex.
It's the implication of sexuality in the movements and positions. This is a common theme in this game. The mannequins are sexually-suggestive even though nothing about them is overtly sexual. It's in their appearance, their movement. The Abstract Daddy is pretty much a manifestation of Angela's sexual abuse, but this shows up in its imagery and mannerisms, not because it rapes James in the ass as one of its attacks. If I bend my wrist and shake it sideways, it's a clearly suggestive gesture, but I'm only suggesting masturbation unless that hand is holding a particular object.
Last edited by alone in the town on 03 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

One of the alleged rape scenes is not a reference to that movie.
True dat. I saw it as a continuation of the themes already explored, and to be a disturbing scene for the player.
But, what's the point of establishing this [hierarchy]?
To suggest to James that he defeat the monsters/delusions, rather than succumb to denial and run off with Maria?

Additionally:
me: People have said it's not rape for several reasons, such as you can't see PH's genitals! as if you could show that in a game!
Jeremy Blaustein: lol.
But, what's the point of establishing this? It's already obvious that Pyramid Head is more dangerous than the others the very first time you see him standing there and just staring at you. If for no other reason than I'm genre-savvy and I automatically elevate obvious boss monsters above the cloned mook monsters without being told. Further, I already got the point about James because I've beaten a dozen monsters to death with my stick by the time I see this little scene play out.
It's not to establish his dangerousness, it's to establish that RPT>other monsters, therefore, James>other monsters. Of course boss monsters are more powerful, but most boss monsters (in other games) do not represent the main character.

RPT abuses/kills other monsters and Maria. I see little difference between the scene where RPT is in the kitchen and the scene where RPT stabs Maria running toward the elevator. In both, RPT is asserting that the delusions (not the monsters, because they only represent the delusions and other issues) in SH are to be overcome.
If I bend my wrist and shake it sideways, it's a clearly suggestive gesture, but I'm only suggesting masturbation unless that hand is holding a particular object.
So, either you are saying that it isn't rape unless you see PH actually penetrating the monster (which obviously could not be shown), or we are arguing about word choice and agree that PH is killing stuff in a sexually suggestive way.

What's RPT's Motivation to Rape Monsters?
Ito says RPT is "another James." He's an external manifestation that helps James realize and come to terms with his guilt for killing Mary. So why on earth would RPT sexually assault a mannequin monster? There are a number of reasons. The simplest answer is that this scene (and the one in the stairwell) directly mirrors the videotape. There is a duality here or power and weakness, represented in different ways. RPT is presented as more stereotypically masculine than James seems to be: more powerful, more violent, holding giant phallic spears or knives. Mary (and Maria) are more feminine, obviously, but also in a more stereotypical way. Mary is weaker (since she is sick) and more vulnerable. She's more emotional and prone to outbursts. Maria seems a bit unstable too, and her vulnerability is shown by her getting killed repeatedly, as well.

Consider the ways that people over-use the word "rape" these days. It's not just a term used for sexual assault; people use it to describe any violation. Silent Hill 2 is game that uses a lot of symbolism, so it doesn't make much sense to take the rape aspect too literally. What is the rape here? Violation. Forcing one's will on another.

So I think a better question is "Why does RPT assault monsters?" and the answer is "Because James assaulted Mary." Why do the monsters die as a result? Because Mary died as a result of James' attack.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

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alone in the town wrote:Does Jeremy Blaustein ever actually call it 'rape'? Is there some quote to this effect where he uses that actual term? Because, it seems as though you're extrapolating 'rape' from 'sexual implications' (which is precisely what I believe it is), and 'sexual implications' is by no means a term which is synonymous with 'rape'.

It's not as if there's even still a really good explanation for why it must be 'rape'. Dominance doesn't work, because why establish dominance and do nothing with it? The RPT does not, in any way, interact with any other monsters after the alleged rape. If that's what it really is, then we have an instance of mostly-irrelevant symbolism delivered with a sledgehammer. Worse still because James' story is almost entirely one of moral ambiguity, where his very vital sin, that of killing his wife, can be justified. Rape cannot ever be justifiable. It is one of those rare human behaviors that is outside of pretty much every moral code. This would establish RPT as a clearly evil entity. Outside of that, rape does absolutely nothing to further the RPTs purposes, as it does not punish James, remind James of anything he did, or really do anything except excite people who think rape makes a person bad ass.
I agree.

I never thought he was raping them. Primarily because rape is a very human problem. The idea that Pyramid Head rapes other monsters subtracts a lot of surrealism and, therefore, effective horror from the concept of him. It's much better and creepier to me if we don't actually know what he's doing. I always thought it was really, really strange how emphatically SH fandom insists that it's penetrative rape.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

Pandora's XBox wrote: I always thought it was really, really strange how emphatically SH fandom insists that it's penetrative rape.
Who's calling it "penetrative rape?" If PH is a manifestation of aspects of James, how can he penetratively rape anything, anyway, if he's not precisely real in the way that James is real?

I'm not calling it that, anyway. I'm calling it either metaphorical rape or sexualized violence.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by AuraTwilight »

You know, I'm just going to throw in that "PH can't penetratively rape because he's not real" is a fucking stupid argument. You might as well say "Maria can't resemble Mary because she's not real."
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

If it isn't penetrative rape, then we've been having a very meaningless argument, because my tack on it has been precisely that it's not penetrative rape.

As far as rape as a metaphor, well, you can broadly apply that term to a person forcing anything on a victim against their will, so everybody in this game is a rapist except for Angela.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

alone in the town wrote:If it isn't penetrative rape, then we've been having a very meaningless argument, because my tack on it has been precisely that it's not penetrative rape.

As far as rape as a metaphor, well, you can broadly apply that term to a person forcing anything on a victim against their will, so everybody in this game is a rapist except for Angela.
My argument was that the scene with PH mirrors the videotape. Therefore I mean it's not literal, penetrative rape because the point is not penetration, but rather, imposing one's will on a helpless victim.
You know, I'm just going to throw in that "PH can't penetratively rape because he's not real" is a fucking stupid argument. You might as well say "Maria can't resemble Mary because she's not real."
Ok, but again, my point is that the purpose of the scene is not just to show PH gettin' it on with some monsters. If it's not metaphorical rape, I just can't make sense of the scene. James never literally rapes anybody, and I've never bought the "PH represents James' repressed sexual urges" idea.

My "fucking stupid argument" is not that he can't rape because he's not real, but that most everything he does should perhaps be interpreted symbolically.

I realize my answers are messy, i'm a bit scatterbrained from medications lately. Let me try again:

SH2 is a game that uses a lot of symbolism. The PH scene suggests the act of rape, I think, to show us a nightmarish mirror image of James killing Mary.

I don't think I'm calling everyone rapists because it's metaphorical. I think rape conjures up certain feelings and associations and that's why it is implied here. I don't even know how to talk about whether or not PH is literally engaged in genital congress with the mannequins and I don't think it matters.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

nur_ein_tier wrote:My argument was that the scene with PH mirrors the videotape. Therefore I mean it's not literal, penetrative rape because the point is not penetration, but rather, imposing one's will on a helpless victim.
Okay, but don't you think that using rape as a metaphor for deed much less malicious than rape, when the game already features a victim of actual, penetrative rape, sounds more than a bit contrived? Especially when the metaphorical rape has nothing to do with the actual rape victim, and the actual rape victim herself never brings any sledgehammer-level rape imagery to the table?

That's the problem I have, even with this being a rape metaphor: there's too much of it, the theme already exists, and neither have anything to do with each other. Too messy.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by KingCrimson »

I can't see how anybody could miss the sexual connotations in the first Pyramid Head boss fight. He's got a Lying Figure doubled over with its head between its legs, and is gyrating against it while making moaning noises. If he were just killing other monsters, he'd simply kill them, as the Butcher so lame-ly does in Origins.

I also think the piston room is rather sledgehammer-y in its implications, by the way (great word, too)...
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by nur_ein_tier »

alone in the town wrote: Okay, but don't you think that using rape as a metaphor for deed much less malicious than rape, when the game already features a victim of actual, penetrative rape, sounds more than a bit contrived? Especially when the metaphorical rape has nothing to do with the actual rape victim, and the actual rape victim herself never brings any sledgehammer-level rape imagery to the table?

That's the problem I have, even with this being a rape metaphor: there's too much of it, the theme already exists, and neither have anything to do with each other. Too messy.
Well, hate to quote Blaustein again, but to paraphrase him, he said the team wanted to explore taboo issues and stuff that hadn't been done in video games before, such as the incest theme with Angela. Even though it's in the same game, I feel like the themes with James and Angela should be considered separately, so I'm just going to ignore Angela altogether for the time being.

As for using it for a metaphor for a "deed less malicious," well, rape sure is malicious, but murder is pretty bad, too! I still think arguing over the rape point is being too literal. When shit shifts over to the Otherworld, things change a lot. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to have RPT, who is like an Otherworld version of James, gyrating against a monster until it dies rather than, say, suffocating a monster with a pillow, because it's the SilentHill-ized version, the monstrous part (trying to get away from comparing to SH1/3 Otherworld here). I don't think it needs to be a direct mirroring of exactly what he did to Mary.

So my simplified version is:

-James did shit to Mary that resulted in her death, and he is a naughty boy because of it and feels guilty.
-RPT does shit to monsters causing their deaths to remind James that he did shit to Mary, resulting in her death, reminding him he is a naughty boy and should feel guilty.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by bl00dmuffin »

Just my personal observation -- I never didn't think it was rape. It's not because of any concrete visual evidence. I just got that feeling. I think that feeling of witnessing horrible, intimate, bodily violence is really what Team Silent was trying to evoke. Pyramid Head could have just shoved his knife/spear into a monster and killed it. The proximity to and contact with the monster (i.e. gyrating motions and forcefully holding on to the monster) give the impression of rape, even if there's no penetration.

Also, a bit off-topic, same thing with the piston room. Even my mother noted, with (fascinated) disgust, that the pistons were disturbingly sexual. Freudian, in a sense.

The point: Silent Hill, as nur_ein_tier mentioned, is a highly symbolic game. Symbols aren't meant to be interpreted literally. They work on the subconscious to produce a psychological effect that runs deeper and affects one more emotionally than a literal depiction. So what is literally happening on the screen is much less important than the emotional response that the ambiguous image produces in the viewer. To place so much importance on "penetrative rape vs. not" kind of misses the point.

Edit: Also, I personally think that the thought of "Oh God, what the hell is he doing to that monster?! D:" is a much, much more effective representation of violation than "RAPERAPERAPE LOOK AT MY PENIS."
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by Kenji »

Jeremy Blaustein singlehandedly killed SH2 discussion on this forum.

Sure, we get little bits here and there, but the big topics are all dead. Thing is, this fan community subsists on discussion. Discussion is one of the reasons SH2 remains so prominent on our minds. Sure, Blaustein wasn't much more than a translator, but didn't he feel even the tiniest shred of pride that something he worked on was inspiring ten years of back-and-forth among the fans? Didn't he think that was precious and worth preserving?

I guess not.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by alone in the town »

nur_ein_tier wrote:Well, hate to quote Blaustein again, but to paraphrase him, he said the team wanted to explore taboo issues and stuff that hadn't been done in video games before, such as the incest theme with Angela. Even though it's in the same game, I feel like the themes with James and Angela should be considered separately, so I'm just going to ignore Angela altogether for the time being.
I can't ignore it, though. As I said, how much rape do we need to have to get the point across? And why is poor ol' Eddie left out? ):
As for using it for a metaphor for a "deed less malicious," well, rape sure is malicious, but murder is pretty bad, too!


It's really hard to even visualize the concept of raping someone out of mercy--except for torture, it's perhaps about as indisputably evil as any act a person can commit. On the other hand, there are several reasons James' killing of Mary can be thought of as significantly less wicked. It brought an end to a miserable existence, and she was on death's door anyway. It's easy to believe that James' act is pardonable, and further, that it was ultimately to Mary's benefit not to suffer however much longer it would have taken for her to die naturally.

To which one might say, 'but Mary didn't want to die!' and that's true, but whether or not Mary wanted to die is not really all that important, because it was going to happen either way. That's why I find it hard to equate even the metaphor of rape to James' character. Really, the only thing about what he did that is hard to defend is that the method he chose and the suddenness in which he executed it probably scared the shit out of Mary... but there probably weren't a great many alternatives, and some of them would have certainly been worse.

It's for those reasons, and quite a few others, that I don't believe that James' guilt is due completely, or even mostly, to the act of killing Mary. I think most of it stems from his having avoided her because he couldn't handle what it was doing to her personality and appearance. Euthanizing a dying loved one is completely within some people's morals, but not many people will forgive a guy whose moral backbone is so weak that he effectively abandons her to suffer alone.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by SilentWren »

I tend to agree with nurientier on this issue. Jeremy's explanation allows for it to be a non penetrative sexual simulation.

I don't understand why that doesn't make everyone happy, but at least we've got some great thinkers in this crowd.
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Re: Roles of the Red Pyramid Thing in SH2

Post by AuraTwilight »

Jeremy Blaustein singlehandedly killed SH2 discussion on this forum.

Sure, we get little bits here and there, but the big topics are all dead. Thing is, this fan community subsists on discussion. Discussion is one of the reasons SH2 remains so prominent on our minds. Sure, Blaustein wasn't much more than a translator, but didn't he feel even the tiniest shred of pride that something he worked on was inspiring ten years of back-and-forth among the fans? Didn't he think that was precious and worth preserving?

I guess not.
Add on that he felt offended that we were arguing over it so much and even insulted our intelligence. What a douchebag.
I tend to agree with nurientier on this issue. Jeremy's explanation allows for it to be a non penetrative sexual simulation.

I don't understand why that doesn't make everyone happy, but at least we've got some great thinkers in this crowd.
It doesn't make some people happy because it's completely fucking meaningless and the context Jeremy is trying to attribute it to is completely incongruent. It's like saying that Eddie eating pizza represents James' gluttony for sex.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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