Maria in the Labyrinth (Spoilers)

[cmm6016]

I've beaten SH2 more than 5 times, and I'm pretty sure I know a good deal about the reasoning/symbolism behind a lot of things in SH2, but James' second encounter with Maria in the Labyrinth has me stumped. How and why was she dead by the time he made it back to her cell? The only thing I can think of is that she was acting as Mary's model--she was dead on a bed covered in blood, possibly symbolizing how he killed Mary, but I'm not so sure. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Maria's deaths in Silent Hill 2 act as a trigger against James' guilty conscience. Maria is Mary in the way that James wanted Mary to be. James was sexually deprived, and frustrated. Mary was sick and didn't look attractive anymore, and Maria is sexy and fun, unlike Mary was during her stay in the hospital. Maria is James' constant reminder that he killed his wife and that's she dead, and this helps James see the light and to take responsibility for his guilt.

I don't know if that really helped answer your question, but I hope so. If not, I know more people will come here and add their input.

Edit: This link may help, as well.

[SHF]

I've beaten SH2 more than 5 times, and I'm pretty sure I know a good deal about the reasoning/symbolism behind a lot of things in SH2, but James' second encounter with Maria in the Labyrinth has me stumped. How and why was she dead by the time he made it back to her cell? The only thing I can think of is that she was acting as Mary's model--she was dead on a bed covered in blood, possibly symbolizing how he killed Mary, but I'm not so sure. Does anyone else have any ideas?

The fact that James sees Maria bedridden symbolizes when he visited Mary in St. Jerome's Hospital.
Also, the prison bars symbolize how James is still imprisoned in his own delusion of what happened to Mary.

The reason why Maria dies several times is because James' conscious is trying to make him remember what he did.

[Tabris]

That scene is actually really interesting because of where James is standing when the cutscene starts. He's not coming through the door, he's standing in a corner and then he's like, "Maria?".

I dunno about you guys, but I wouldn't walk into a room, chill in a corner for a bit and THEN noticed our ladyfriend happens to be beaten to death on a bed.

This kind of leads me to believe he for some reason beat her to death and then decided to forget about it and act like he's surprised to see her dead.

Not saying this is fact or anything but it's pretty damn suspicious the scene starts with him standing in the corner and then proceeding to act oblivious. Plus given his circumstances, forgetting about what he did isn't exactly farfetched at that point.

[alone in the town]

I checked the scene because I'd never noticed, but yeah, it does seem like he was in the corner. I'm willing to believe, though, that this was simply an error in placing him away from the door. You do hear the sound of the door closing just as the scene begins. I don't think there are darker things at work here (nor do I think James is a psycho murderer).

I also never noticed that he perfectly presages Laura's reaction to learning about Mary. "Why... why..."

[Ashes]

^ You're probably right, but... wow. In a way, it could be possible that he DID beat her to death.. That his agressive personality took over again, because Maria suddenly reminded him about how much part of him hated Mary..
And almost instantly after that he goes all 'Hurr you can't just kill someone Eddie'

[Aerith Gainsborough]

^The sole reason James is in Silent Hill is due to his guilt for killing Mary. Due to knowing that, I don't think he would revert to past feelings when he should, instead, be progressing in realizing his guilt.

[Ashes]

It could have been a 'set back' in his progress, after which his survival instinct quickly surpresses the act of killing Maria (just like it did when he killed Mary), to keep James from killing himself when his fenzy is over.

[The Adversary]

James didn't kill Maria. The idea is ridiculous and unfounded.

[SHF]

It could have been a 'set back' in his progress, after which his survival instinct quickly surpresses the act of killing Maria (just like it did when he killed Mary), to keep James from killing himself when his fenzy is over.

To further Adversary, James never killed Maria. It wouldn't be possible because Maria is not real.

Again, like I said, Maria "dies" numerously because James' subconscious mind is trying to force him to realize the truth of what is going on.

The town just amplifies his subconscious, which is how he is able to see Maria in the first place.

[Ashes]

I know Maria isn't real, and I know she dies all the time to arouse James from his delusion. And yes, this whole theory is probably just based on a small mistake in a cutscene... I'm just playing with the idea.

Think about it. James killed Mary with a pillow. It was done easily, no blood and stuff. And thus, easier to surpress by his survival instinct.
Maria is covered in blood, with a painfull expression on her face. Perhaps the town forced him to savagely kill his illusion, in order to remember what he really did to Mary. After all, that's why PH kills Maria savagly all the time; to make James remember what he did.

[alone in the town]

If the town could, or would, do something like that, what's the point of even having Pyramid Head around?

[SHF]

[quote="Ashes"]I know Maria isn't real, and I know she dies all the time to arouse James from his delusion. And yes, this whole theory is probably just based on a small mistake in a cutscene... I'm just playing with the idea.
^

There is no mistake in the cutscene. James enters the door and sees Maria lying there covered in blood.

Think about it. James killed Mary with a pillow. It was done easily, no blood and stuff. And thus, easier to surpress by his survival instinct.
Maria is covered in blood, with a painfull expression on her face. Perhaps the town forced him to savagely kill his illusion
^

No one and nothing killed Maria. and you cannot kill illusions. The only way James can "kill" Maria ( notice the quotes people) is when he realizes that Maria is just one of his delusions, and she disappears. But that is only one of the endings. ( Leave?)

There is a reason why Maria is dead. You just said why in the first part.

[mikefile]

But that is only one of the endings. ( Leave?)

+ Rebirth and In Water

[Ashes]

I just realized it wouldn't be logic of the town to FIRST make James 'kill' (and I know he can't make Maria really go away with that kind of violence) Maria to 'arouse' him, only to have him surpress the act instantly afterwards. Which would be necessary, for otherwise he'd kill himself out of guilt etc.

But I'm still not entirely sure if it couldn't have been a 'set back' in his progress. Something the town didn't intend to happen.

[alone in the town]

It still doesn't work. James killed Mary for specific reasons and hours (at least) pass before he blocks it out. According to your theory, James either blacks out and kills people in some hazy, murderous fugue, or does it for the psychotic thrill of it and immediately stifles all memory of it, and neither of these assertions is supported by any evidence.

[Ashes]

because Maria suddenly reminded him about how much part of him hated Mary..

?

[alone in the town]

Even if that was true (it's not), why would he kill Maria here specifically, when this never happens in any of the other instances where they meet? Also, why does he never recall doing it, even later?

[Lemex]

And why is there nothing anywhere else in the game to even suggest that that happened?

[AuraTwilight]

And why the hell doesn't he kill her while travelling with her for a couple hours and she's being an indignant uppity bitch?

Maria is dead because the Otherworld needed her to be dead to torment James. Nothing had to make her dead.