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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: James' Real Reason **Spoilers**

Missing since: 11 Sep 2005
Notes left: 231
Okay...this will be long, but I hope it will be interesting as well: I'm just going to present something to you all. I think this is really apparent to some people, but it may still be debated.

There is a theme within Silent Hill 2 that is undoubtedly very important. Allusions to it within the game are everywhere, and there is so much symbolism that I find it very hard to believe that some people either just don't pick up on it, or outright deny its possibility. And that is...

James came to Silent Hill to commit suicide. (and he probably ended up doing so as well - though that's up for debate)


There is a rather large amount of evidence to support this. I've touched upon some of it before in other topics, but I think that collecting it all may help in painting a picture about James' state of mind after he killed his beloved wife, but before he stepped out and begins his "I got a letter..." monologue.

Okay, to get started...First off, there's the fact that he has his dead wife in the trunk of his car. There are a few scenarios that can come from this:

A: James came to Silent Hill to either kill his wife (which I don't believe) or to put his wife's corpse to rest and then send it off in the Lake
B: James came to Silent Hill because of his delusion and forgot that his wife was in the trunk
C: James killed his wife, put her in the trunk, and then drove to Silent Hill to commit suicide after putting Mary's body to rest on a boat in the Lake.
D: James killed his wife, put her in the trunk, and then drove to Silent Hill to commit suicide with her either still in the trunk, or in the passenger seat

Now you're probably saying "those are a lot of options" and there are probably more, but my point here is that, from further evidence in the game, I'm going to say that C or D would probably be the closest to the truth that we can get.

1. The best evidence that James came to SH to kill himself is the In Water ending. In that ending, you hear James driving his car into what is assumed to be Toluca Lake, and then we see water as James is apparently silently drowning to the text of Mary's letter.

Quote:
*James stares at Mary for a moment and then picks her up off of the bed and
carries her out of the room. The screen goes black and a car door can be
heard closing.*

James: Now I understand. The real reason I came to this town.

*The sound of a car starting is then heard.*

James: I wonder what was I afraid of? Without you, Mary, I've got
nothing....

*A car is heard racing along a road for a short time.*

James: Now we can be together....

*Mary's letter is then read against a background of what looks to be an
underwater scene. To see what the letter says skip down to the 'D. The
Letter' portion of this document. At the end of the letter the background
fades to black and then the credits roll.*


Although this is just an ending, (and whether or not James actually did this is debated) James does state that "Now I understand...the real reason"...He is saying that he initially came to Silent Hill to commit suicide, but his delusion prevented him from doing so, because the part of himself in denial of the last three years prevented him from doing so, by creating the delusion and false hope that Mary may still be alive. "What was I so afraid of?"

2. Then there's the ongoing theme of suicide within the game itself. There's Angela's suicidal theme, and James' receiving her bloody knife. We all know this, but I think there's something significant about the scene in Blue Creek Apartments that I may have missed before...In the beginning of the game, James is looking into a mirror, studying his face intently...Fast forward to when we encounter Angela; she is in front of a mirror, on the ground, most likely contemplating her death. What if James was looking into that mirror at that rest stop, contemplating ending his life just like Angela, but instead he gets lost in his reflection...lost in his delusion, which is soon to be seen when he exits the stop and enters into Silent Hill? Maybe James was going to kill himself, but somewhere between looking into that mirror, and leaving the bathroom, he just "forgets" his pain, what he did, and instead sets out on a false quest to find Mary.

One reason why I think this may be feasible is because I think the reason James killed Mary and became amnesiac about the last three years was out of self-preservation. Whenhe murdered her, I honestly think that even though James may have thought about it from time to time, from watching that scene in room 312, James murdered Mary on an impulse. He seems to enter the room rather quickly, kisses Mary, and then just smothers her...To me this seems impulsive, like he's lost control of his senses, as if it's a desperate act, frantic, not thought-out or premeditated... If this is true, it's not so hard to believe that a part of James "selfishly" really does want to get on with the rest of his life without Mary, no matter what the cost (even if it is his sanity). This would explain why James creates his delusion in the first place, to go away from all of the pain and anguish, all of the guilt he feels...But in Silent Hill, it comes back to stalk him, to remind him, through brutal images...One of these being Pyramid Head.

3. I think there's an ongoing suicidal theme with Pyramid Head. After Angela gives you the knife, you go on to fight your first boss of the game, which is Pyramid Head trying to kill you, with a "great knife" of all things. This boss fight is so strange to me, because all you have to do is survive not being killed. Pyramid and a stairwell full of water block your path... You can't kill Pyramid Head, but you can fire shots at him, trying to keep him away, as if saying "back off man, I want to live" It's as if Pyramid Head will carry out James' subconscious wish to end it all if he isn't too close, and in this, if you follow PH too closely when he descends into the water after the fight is over, PH will turn around and kill you just like that.

Then there's the part where James sees the rooftop diary on top of Brookhaven Hospital. The patient who wrote this (whoever it is, yeah yeah, I believe it's suicidal patient Jack Davis ) is clearly suicidal. I believe that they jumped off of that rooftop right after writing it as well. For clarity's sake, I'll post the diary here, even though we've all seen it so many times...

Quote:
May 9
Rain. Stared out the window all day. Peaceful here - nothing to do. Still not allowed to go outside.

May 10
Still raining. Talked with the doctor a little. Would they have saved me if I didn't have a family to feed? I know I'm pathetic, weak. Not everyone can be strong.

May 11
Rain again. The meds made me feel sick today. If I'm only better when I'm drugged, then who am i anyway?

May 12
Rain as usual. I don't want to cause any more trouble for anyone, but I'm a bother either way. Can it really be a such a sin to run instead of fight? Some people may say so, but they don't have to live in my shoes. It may be selfish, but it's what I want. It's too hard like this. It's just to hard....

May 13
It's clear outside. The doctors told me I've been released - that I've got to go home. I ..........


Soon afterwards, Pyramid Head comes up to you, and smacks you off, with his Knife and you awaken in the padded cell area very close to death. The fence was loose where he smacked you, and it was the only reason why you survived...But the loose fencing suggests that maybe someone had broken it before, or that someone had climbed it to jump to their death.

Anyway, to further support the suicide theme of the diary, here are a couple more things.

In SH3, Stanley Coleman states about the rooftop:

Quote:
I also like the rooftop. It makes me want to fly. You too?


I know that this does leave a lot to the imagination, but my first thought when I read this was a sarcastic remark regarding suicide, in reference (reverence) to SH2...

Here's one last thing about the way the diary was written. Web MD states that

Quote:
# Sudden calmness: Suddenly becoming calm after a period of depression or moodiness can be a sign that the person has made a decision to end his or her life.


Then there's the last two entries of the diary itself:

Quote:
May 12
Rain as usual. I don't want to cause any more trouble for anyone, but I'm a bother either way. Can it really be a such a sin to run instead of fight? Some people may say so, but they don't have to live in my shoes. It may be selfish, but it's what I want. It's too hard like this. It's just to hard....

May 13
It's clear outside. The doctors told me I've been released - that I've got to go home. I ..........


Web MD goes on further to say that:

Quote:
People who have recently been released from a psychiatric hospitalization (This often is a very frightening period of transition.)
...are more prone to commit suicide

4. Water and imagery...There's an ongoing theme about water in Silent Hill 2. Of course, this really ties well with the In-Water ending. And in that ending, James commits suicide. With this I just kind of put 2 and 2 together... There's just so much water everywhere in SH2, and because of the circumstances I've found in the game, I associate Water with his life's end... To me, all the water signifies that James is not just struggling to find the truth within himself, to conquer the abyss, but is also wading through the "water" of his own, well uh...life...It's he's sunk beneath the surface of his subconscious, and has to swim his way out. There are so many water references...There's Toluca Lake first of all, followed by Blue Creek and Woodside Apartments, where water is dripping everywhere.

And then there's the first PH fight again, where there's a water level up to the top of that stairwell, and after the fight is done, Pyramid Head submerges (or sinks) into it...And then when James has finally finished his battle to survive, the water drains, and he is free to go onto the next area.

Then there's the Prison itself. Parts of it are submerged in water. It's like you're underneath Toluca Lake... You wade through areas...Hell, you even have to jump down a hole and you find yourself at the bottom of a well of all places...The symbolism behind this screams death and drowning, and if applicable to James, suicide and submergence.

There's water in the Labyrinth too, and there you encounter PH once again, stalking around the Great Knife, and finally in the last corridor before you ascend the final ladder up to Angela (who is suicidal herself)

Later, you row across the Lake, it's deadly quiet while you row. You'd read about boats disappearing on the Lake before...

And of course, there's the water damage in the Lakeview Hotel...Yeah, it burned down, but there looks like there's water damage in there too...as if sprinklers went off, or firemen tried to fight the fire...It's an odd mix of the damp and dripping remains of a fire scathed building. When you get down to the basement level, you hear a weird "cricket" noise, and the water is a blackened sludge...You are literally waist deep at that point.

See, Angela is suicidal, but she sees fire...We see her ascending a stairway, and it looks like (without the weird little dance, you camera hacks) she's ascending to her death...James says that he'd "never commit suicide" (or something like that) when he gives her back her knife...But that doesn't sound very convincing to me at all... It comes out almost in a whisper... His final denial... And in this, I think while the suicidal Angela may see a fire-damaged/smoldering/rape-like world/house/whatever...James sees/expresses through symbolism the same thing from the opposite side of the spectrum, through the water. Angela ascends to her death in fire...James drowns himself in water...

And yeah, then there's the actual Lake in the final boss battle...

5. Finally, there's the last Pyramid Head fight, and it's pretty cool that in this fight, you get to actually use the Great Knife to its full potential against the two stalking Pyramid Heads...And then afterwards, they kill themselves...

Besides all this, I just can't say that all of this stuff was just random and coincidental...They clearly point to suicide to me...James was a very conflicted man, and though it makes me sad to think that because of Silent Hill 4's reference to Toluca Lake being the answer to what happened to James and Mary...Well, the evidence from SH2 itself seems rather convincing to me as well. I still leave the endings open to whoever's interpretation, BUT I will say this, I think it's as clear as it can be, that James came to the town to end his life, whether or not you believe he eventually did so is still up to you...But I think the evidence is overwhelming.

_________________
No one wins...It's a war of man.


Last edited by Monobrow on 24 May 2008, edited 2 times in total.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>I just can't say that all of this stuff was just random and coincidental...
Wow. That sounds familiar...

And I still find the evidence that the Rebirth ending be correct is overwhelming.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 11 Sep 2005
Notes left: 231
Ah well, to each his own. We really approach the game from entirely different perspectives huh?

_________________
No one wins...It's a war of man.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 27 Mar 2006
Notes left: 73
Last seen at: Australia
That was a rather interesting read. It seems likely that the intended ending is the In Water ending. That would explain why Superintendent Sunderland in 4 says that his son and daughter in law went missing in Silent Hill years ago. But, why would Mary have gone missing, she was dead in the hospital wasn't she?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 18 Jul 2004
Notes left: 2099
Last seen at: Australia
Quote:
That would explain why Superintendent Sunderland in 4 says that his son and daughter in law went missing in Silent Hill years ago. But, why would Mary have gone missing, she was dead in the hospital wasn't she?


Frank's words could apply to every single one of the endings. James ran off with Mary in Rebirth. He started a new life with Laura in Leave. He started a fresh delusion with Maria in the Maria ending. He drove into the lake in In Water.

Also,
[spoiler]James didn't kill Mary at the hospital, she was discharged before her death[/spoiler]


Last edited by Goodnight on 30 Apr 2006, edited 1 time in total.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 09 Feb 2005
Notes left: 250
Last seen at: México
Well, ok...

I think that in SH2 there is the same ammount of facts to determine more than one possible real ending. You only have to take the ones that support your theory and dismiss all others as non-existent or fake.
You have to addmit that most of this is supossition, the facts are minor than the assumptions. And that is a fact. If everything is exactly like you state it, well, then you are right, but if something it is not, no matter how small is the change, then your theory is, well... just dismissed. And since there are no enough facts on this theory...

Now, about all the characters or most of them (as well most of situations) being related to the suicide is, in my opinion, a not-so-smart theory. A good story needs variety. If it all talks about the same then it stops of being a good story and starts being a mediocre story... and unless you are saying that Team Silent sucked this time, I think that is not quite possible.

>>To me this seems impulsive
To me, this seems calm, something that he took the time to think about.

>>And then afterwards, they kill themselves...
I think that this represents the victory of James over his own fears and guilt.

There is a lot of suicide thing here, indeed, but not in the games, in you, my friend.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 18 Jul 2004
Notes left: 2099
Last seen at: Australia
Quote:
I think that this represents the victory of James over his own fears and guilt.


Exactly. They killed themselves because the no longer had any power over James- he defeated them with acceptance. It was symbolic.


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 Post subject:

Geez, can we get over which ending is true.

If there isnt a direct sequel (like SH1 is to SH3), we dont really know the REAL ending.

Get over it.

Btw, I prefered the leave ending myself.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
There is no way that the rooftop diary belongs to Jack Davis, or any of the three patients on that list.

[Jack Davis]
He has attempted suicide three
times in the past for reasons
unknown. Although he is normally
a model patient who follows
doctor's and nurse's orders, he
must be watched closely due to
his past pattern of sudden and
violent suicide attempts.


The last line of the diary indicates that the patient is being released. Does the description above sound like a person who is going to be released back into society?

All three of the listed patients sound very chronic, and none of them are likely to be released. Thus, I find it extremely unlikely the diary belongs to any of them. It sounds like someone who's unhappy and confused, but not like someone who's borderline suicidal. Also sounds like someone who is sick but certainly isn't suffering from any major, long-term mental illness, and also someone who's in for only a short stay.

Thus, all signs seem to point to Mary.

I also have major disputes with you saying Angela's presence indicates suicide as the outcome, when it's clear that the other supporting characters, Eddie and Laura, are both heavy indicators of Maria and the Leave ending, respectively. Why would their roles mean less than Angela's?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 18 Jul 2004
Notes left: 2099
Last seen at: Australia
Quote:
Geez, can we get over which ending is true.


The game is ambiguous, which always leads to speculation and personal opinions being formed. There's no "true" ending, and thus, it is always up for debate.

Ignore the threads if they bug you. I've learned to block out Pyramid Head rape theorists.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 11 Apr 2006
Notes left: 18
Last seen at: Mulvane, KS
I don't know. There's so many possible endings, so there's so many possible reasons that James came to Silent Hill. I'm not sure why, personally. I'm totally cool with the In Water ending, Laura and Rebirth.

They all make such sense to me...I don't know.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Of course 'life' and 'death' are ongoing themes in SH2. I believe James is heavily mentally anguished and not wanting to admit he wishes to end his life is evident though the story, IMO. In Water is the ending where he gives up on life, the others show that he does not really want to succumb to such a fate.

The reason there are so many endings in the game, is because Team Silent are showing in the story that there are other options. And the reason there are so many other options is because LIFE IS WORTH LIVING. Thus, there's one 'In Water' ending among a handful of others.

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Oh, another blocked door... Oh, another blocked door... Oh, another blocked door... Oh, another blocked door................ Locked. F*** it.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>We really approach the game from entirely different perspectives huh?
Sure, except that you've been disputing my angle--that the amount of "coincidences" for Mary to stay at Brookhaven is unreasonable. Thus: You can't use that same argument here in your discussion without it being pointed right back at you. If you believe James came to Silent Hill to kill himself, that's fine, but if you're going to use the "too many coincidences" angle, then you must also believe Mary stayed at Brookhaven.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 13 Nov 2005
Notes left: 429
Last seen at: Teen Town
Goodnight wrote:

Frank's words could apply to every single one of the endings. James ran off with Mary in Rebirth. He started a new life with Laura in Leave. He started a fresh delusion with Maria in the Maria ending. He drove into the lake in In Water.



Yes, but notice how this is all said when Henry looks at a picture of Toluca Lake. Also, if James reincarnated Mary, why would they run away and start a new life? The same goes for James and Laura. The only other ending I can see being feasible (by looking at what he says in the picture) would be the Maria. But this ending would not work for other reasons.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Also, if James reincarnated Mary, why would they run away and start a new life?
Why would James go home with his wife, that was dead, and whom is now suddenly cured? James isn't an idiot.

And you do realize that the island James performs the ritual on is, well whaddyaknow?, in Toluca Lake.

Also: Your signature exceeds the allotted size of 580x100 pixels. Please change it.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 13 Nov 2005
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St. Thomas wrote:
>Also, if James reincarnated Mary, why would they run away and start a new life?
Why would James go home with his wife, that was dead, and whom is now suddenly cured? James isn't an idiot.

And you do realize that the island James performs the ritual on is, well whaddyaknow?, in Toluca Lake.

Also: Your signature exceeds the allotted size of 580x100 pixels. Please change it.


Who says that anyone knew that Mary was dead? I don't think that James killed her and then went back home to tell his entire family.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Everyone knew she was sick; that she was going to die; that there wasn't a cure. She's not coming home.

Your signature's still too big.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
Notes left: 639
Goodnight wrote:
Quote:
That would explain why Superintendent Sunderland in 4 says that his son and daughter in law went missing in Silent Hill years ago. But, why would Mary have gone missing, she was dead in the hospital wasn't she?


Frank's words could apply to every single one of the endings. James ran off with Mary in Rebirth. He started a new life with Laura in Leave. He started a fresh delusion with Maria in the Maria ending. He drove into the lake in In Water.

Also,
[spoiler]James didn't kill Mary at the hospital, she was discharged before her death[/spoiler]


One thing about the leave ending and the Maria ending...I find it hard to believe these endings to have Jame's lose connection with his father....maybe for the Maria ending..he thinks hes leaving silent hill but he'll only return again because maria has the same sickness as mary did...for the leave ending......he would have to come into contact with his father because if he wouldnt contact his father Frank would get worried and hire a private investigator or something....he would eventually be found...THEN AGAIN maybe he was still trying to be found even when SH 4 took place....so what ever....

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 18 Jul 2004
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I think the Maria Ending would definitely sever ties with his father - he's completely delusional.

In regards to the Leave Ending, after what both of them have been through, the last thing either one would want to deal with is more memories of Mary. Also, if James took Mary's body back for a funeral and they did an autopsy (although the often don't with terminal patients), he would be screwed. If they returned 'home', they'd have to deal with everything Mary left behind, her corpse included. It's only been three days.


I honestly think in every single situation, James would want to start anew. Even In Water is a new start, if you believe in that sort of thing.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 11 Sep 2005
Notes left: 231
alone in the town wrote:

Thus, all signs seem to point to Mary.

I also have major disputes with you saying Angela's presence indicates suicide as the outcome, when it's clear that the other supporting characters, Eddie and Laura, are both heavy indicators of Maria and the Leave ending, respectively. Why would their roles mean less than Angela's?


Aha, I already know your opinion about the diary, but anyway, I believe differently, and you already know why...so I don't really know what else to say to you regarding this. As for endings, I stated that you can believe whatever you want to believe when it comes to endings...What I was trying to prove in this thread is that James was suicidal when he came to town, not the outcome of the game. So rest assured there...

St. Thomas wrote:
>We really approach the game from entirely different perspectives huh?
Sure, except that you've been disputing my angle--that the amount of "coincidences" for Mary to stay at Brookhaven is unreasonable. Thus: You can't use that same argument here in your discussion without it being pointed right back at you. If you believe James came to Silent Hill to kill himself, that's fine, but if you're going to use the "too many coincidences" angle, then you must also believe Mary stayed at Brookhaven.


Haha, bs. I have my own idea about what happened, and a list of coincidences and evidence that, in my opinion, overwhelm what you believe, and make those beliefs seem inconsequential in comparison. Are you debating on whether or not I can post a topic like this...? I'm not exactly sure... Anyway, I only cater to myself when I come up with my own opinion about what happened, but I like a good debate about it (obviously). But honestly, this thread isn't really as much "about" debate as my other one was, and yet, I don't understand why we are talking about this here, when I'd rather have replies regarding the topic at hand. I disputed "your" angle with another angle on an entirely different subject, I don't see anything wrong with that. You've already got your own thread about what you believe, so let me have mine.

And also, this isn't the "too many coincidences" angle, it's the "I'm going to present many facts about the game which I think can be interpreted as meaning "this" - angle." Anyway, you believe differently from me, let's get over it. Notice I never named this thread topic "the true ending" or anything like that...So don't worry about the endings...In-Water may related to this subject, obviously, but all these are are observations.

Dunkel_Teufel wrote:
Well, ok...

I think that in SH2 there is the same ammount of facts to determine more than one possible real ending. You only have to take the ones that support your theory and dismiss all others as non-existent or fake.
You have to addmit that most of this is supossition, the facts are minor than the assumptions. And that is a fact. If everything is exactly like you state it, well, then you are right, but if something it is not, no matter how small is the change, then your theory is, well... just dismissed. And since there are no enough facts on this theory...

Now, about all the characters or most of them (as well most of situations) being related to the suicide is, in my opinion, a not-so-smart theory. A good story needs variety. If it all talks about the same then it stops of being a good story and starts being a mediocre story... and unless you are saying that Team Silent sucked this time, I think that is not quite possible.

>>To me this seems impulsive
To me, this seems calm, something that he took the time to think about.

There is a lot of suicide thing here, indeed, but not in the games, in you, my friend.


My aim in this was to point out that there is indeed a rather large ongoing theme about suicide, symbolically, metaphorically, and psychologically in Silent Hill 2. It wasn't to define which ending is "true".

My aim was to point out all of the many different details I have noticed throughout the game that can be taken as a point towards suicide, and I thought it was interesting.

As for taking things and dismissing things, I never dismissed anything, so I'm not really sure what you are talking about. This thread was concentrating on suicide and death, and the symbolism connected towards these two themes. It's selective because it is supporting a general observation related towards James' frame of mind upon entering Silent Hill.

I honestly think you missed the point of this thread, or you didn't read it all.

As for saying that I myself am suicidal, I think you may have taken this thread a bit too seriously, to let it hit a nerve with you enough to claim something like that about someone you don't even know.

Whew...

_________________
No one wins...It's a war of man.


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