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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Sep 2014
Notes left: 30
Last seen at: Texas
the entire character of maria just seems odd, and for some reason she always felt like the worst part of the game. i sometimes feel the game would be more psychological if it just featured more subtle hints to mary's pressence in the town rather than a full on character made to mess with james mind. Maria was kind of obvious eversince she first appeared, it could have only been two things: mary pretending to be someone else or an apparition james came up with on his own to replace mary. The character is really just...egh, the game would have been even more beautiful and thought provoking if she didnt exist and the town was empty one more character. The only thing she does thats amazing is the intro in the game where she talks to james through the cell. Im very curious on others thoughts on what the game would be like without maria


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
She's odd because she's intended to be odd.

The game wouldn't have had a point if she didn't exist- she's the primary accessory that leads James to the truth- and the violence she experiences is a intended to act as a simulacrum of what happened to Mary.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "the game would have been even more beautiful and thought provoking if she didnt exist" and I already disagree- but care to elaborate for the sake of clarity?


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Sep 2014
Notes left: 30
Last seen at: Texas
well, the thing with maria is that she looks like mary, but isnt. and that wouldnt just be a coincidence if james came to town and found her. I guess the thing i dislike about her is the exact reason everyone else DOES like her, its weird. I think if the town itself was just more "empty" and had even less interaction with other characters it would probably just feel more psychological or "wild goose chase" esqe for james. Though i do say i love angela and eddie, and both are just fantastic characters, i feel like the 4 encounters we had with each was enough and they played their role in the story perfectly. Maria just seems there at times and she just doesnt seem to fit in with rest of the cast, even if she was kind of the deutergonist


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Sep 2014
Notes left: 22
Last seen at: Toluca Lake
Maria's purpose is to forcibly remind James of what he did to Mary. The reason she tags along with you and plays the whole damsel in distress is because it's his subconscious saying "look James you are meant to protect the women in your life and make sure they don't come to harm". That message can't be portrayed if she doesn't spend enough time with James for him (and the player) to get attached to her. Her violent and multiple deaths at the hands of Pyramid Head are the most literal thing his mind can come up with to force him to remember he killed Mary. Maria's deaths obviously wouldn't have as much effect on James or us, if again, she hadn't had enough screen time to be more than just another supporting character like Eddie, Angela or Laura. This is why we have so much time with Maria and not a more subtle representation. The time spent with Maria is more a storytelling mechanism than a gameplay mechanic.

Would it have been more fun to not have to worry about Maria getting hurt and the incessant clack clack clack of her high heels? Probobly. Would her deaths and other key scenes such as the prison cell and Brookhaven Basement have had as much of an emotional impact and trigger in James' brain if we hadn't have spent a good chunk of the game with her? Hell no.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I'm with JamesInWater on this. Maria is pretty much the best part of the game for me and really wraps all the parts of the storyline together. Maria's important because she allows us to learn things about James he would never volunteer without the proper prompt.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Sep 2014
Notes left: 22
Last seen at: Toluca Lake
Maria definitely gives us the most in depth look at James' psyche, she is my faveourite character in the game too. I guess people don't like her because she messes with James' head, yes she does, but in a good way, in a way that he needs. I've just got to the boss fight with Eddie now and wow, I forgot how much that scene with Maria in the jail cell sends shivers down my spine.

The way she dances between playing Mary and herself, reminding him of the video tape and thusly, what he did to Mary. Then coldly affirming "I am not your Mary" to warming up saying "I can be, if you want me to be" when James is certain of who she is. To me this shows she resents being a sexed up doppelganger of Mary, as she gets angry and cold when James keeps confusing her with Mary. She desires to be her own person, a REAL person. She is telling herself as much as James when she repeatedly states "See? I'm real". She always touches James when she sais this, to feel that connection to a real person. Again, I believe this is just as much for her as it is for James, it isn't just touchy, touchy, feely "let's seduce James" She yearns for his love and his touch. Because what do real people do? They love. Nothing would make Maria feel more real than if somebody loved her.

This is why I always feel sorry for Maria in any ending except her own. The poor girl even tries to make herself look exactly like Mary in a last ditch effort to get James to love her. No wonder she lost her shit after he rejects her again. It is not Maria's fault how she was born or for the memories and emotions she had, she is as much a victim of them as James is.

All this adds spectacular depth to her character I believe and also makes her existance and experience exceedingly tragic.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Sep 2014
Notes left: 30
Last seen at: Texas
might be a stupid question, but does maria ever remember any of her own deaths? like does she really believe she and james just got seperated or does she know she was stabbed by PH? since shes kind of her own entity its hard to tell if she ever remembers or not.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osGBsgfbUaQ
Quote:
James: You're alive! Maria...! I thought that thing killed you...! Are
you hurt bad?
Maria: Not at all, silly.
James: ...Maria? That thing... it stabbed you. There was blood everywhere.
Maria: Stabbed me? What do you mean?
James: It chased us to the elevator. And then...
Maria: James, what are you talking about'
James: Just before! Don't you remember'
Maria: James honey... Did something happen to you? After we got separated
in that long hallway? Are you confusing me with someone else?


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 187
colgatetoothpasteyum wrote:
well, the thing with maria is that she looks like Mary, but isn't.


That's what James pretty much says in some endings. And then Maria gets angry and tries to kill him. After all, as much as she looks like Mary, Mary is dead, and nothing can change that (except in Maria ending, of course).

JamesInWater wrote:
I guess people don't like her because she messes with James' head, yes she does, but in a good way, in a way that he needs.


I think is more in the perspective that she's what James want (at the same time he wants a Sexy Mary, he wants to be punished). Maybe, I think, you find Maria to be more independent than I find. I mean, to me, she feels more like a facet, not a real person, but a character, born form a wish.

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
I tend to think there's more of Mary in Maria's metaphysical constitution than James.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Sep 2014
Notes left: 22
Last seen at: Toluca Lake
HeartlessBastard wrote:
colgatetoothpasteyum wrote:
well, the thing with maria is that she looks like Mary, but isn't.


That's what James pretty much says in some endings. And then Maria gets angry and tries to kill him. After all, as much as she looks like Mary, Mary is dead, and nothing can change that (except in Maria ending, of course).

JamesInWater wrote:
I guess people don't like her because she messes with James' head, yes she does, but in a good way, in a way that he needs.


I think is more in the perspective that she's what James want (at the same time he wants a Sexy Mary, he wants to be punished). Maybe, I think, you find Maria to be more independent than I find. I mean, to me, she feels more like a facet, not a real person, but a character, born form a wish.


I believe her to be quite independent and in control of her own actions, but the emotions and purpose hardwired into her get the better of her sometimes. It seems to me from the Born from a Wish scenario that she goes along with her purpose more for lack of something better to do than being stuck on the rails so to speak.

Trauma_ wrote:
I tend to think there's more of Mary in Maria's metaphysical constitution than James.


I agree, I think the sexed up part is because it is what Mary wanted to be for James, from what we see in the game it is Mary who had the glaring problem with how she looked, not James. Plus I bet Mary wanted to rock James' world just as much as he wanted to pound her in those 3 years.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Maria is in all senses but literally, Mary with amnesia, a new outfit, and a new set of emotions programmed into her. I always found it interesting hwo she could remember snippets of things James couldn't possibly know, or how before realizing her purpose she's basically an unfailingly kind Good Samaritan who'd risk her life to help a stranger.

It's quite clear to me that she's as much Mary's creation as James', if not moreso.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Does Maria ruin the game? Um, Maria makes the game.

I think she's actually one of the most interesting characters in the series. The ambiguity and mysteriousness of her existence is what really counts. She's cocky, she's hot, acts like a slut. But sometimes she doesn't.. changing her tone of voice, acting all loving and caring. As if she really cares about James.

Nevertheless, my admiration of her character comes from the opinion that she's mostly James' avatar. Throughout the series, I never really interpreted ghosts as extremely influential in the ambient of the Otherworld. I think there was some essence of Mary in there, true, but just a fraction. Even her outside appearance is demonstrative of James' guilty conscience. I see Maria's sexy disguise as a projection of James' sexual frustrations combined with his sense of guilt, as he's feeling really uncomfortable with it. The story's actually based upon the whole Eros/Thanatos idea.

However, I still believe Maria is an independent being as a result of the town's force, but always originative of James' contradictory feelings.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
Notes left: 70
Last seen at: Portugal
Agree with all above... she is super important...she adds a lot really. Sh2 will always be the golden chapter, can´t remember anything that ruins the game.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 187
mikefile wrote:
Throughout the series, I never really interpreted ghosts as extremely influential in the ambient of the Otherworld. I think there was some essence of Mary in there, true, but just a fraction. Even her outside appearance is demonstrative of James' guilty conscience. I see Maria's sexy disguise as a projection of James' sexual frustrations combined with his sense of guilt, as he's feeling really uncomfortable with it. The story's actually based upon the whole Eros/Thanatos idea.

However, I still believe Maria is an independent being as a result of the town's force, but always originative of James' contradictory feelings.


Pretty much what I think. But I don't think Mary herself had anything to do with the creation of Maria. Mary's dead, and she died far from Silent Hill. There's no way her thoughts or spirit could influence anything in James' journey.
The way I see it, Laura could have a finger in Maria's creation, even tough they never met. I mean (I really suck at explaining stuff like this, but I'll try to make myself be clear), when Maria was created by James in the beginning of the game, one of his desires was to create a perfect healthy Mary he was looking for. This feeling could have come from Laura as well, and amalgamated in Maria's being. That can explain how Maria feels for Laura, since James never knew her, and could not have programmed her to behave like this.

An parallel could be
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Boogeyman from Downpour. He's an amalgamation of Murphy feelings towards Napier and himself, and Anne's feelings towards him.

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Pretty much what I think. But I don't think Mary herself had anything to do with the creation of Maria. Mary's dead, and she died far from Silent Hill. There's no way her thoughts or spirit could influence anything in James' journey.


Even though Silent Hill is 'a place where you can meet the spirits of the dead'?

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
Not only that, but Mary had expressed an affinity for the special properties of the town, and their vacation had taken place long after the "large scale shift" that occurred in the first game— making it not only plausible, but indisputable fact that Mary had left some sort of psychic imprint behind.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 187
Since Silent Hill is where our "illusions come to life", I don't think those ghosts are real.

Anyway, Mary didn't stay too much to left a psychic imprint on the town like Ernest did. I prefer to believe that Mary we see in the ending of the game is just James having a resolution with his conscience.

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
She obviously left enough of an imprint to manifest a flirtatious stripper that knows things that James has no business knowing. So, there's that.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Does maria ruin the game?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 187
Well, I made my point up there. The things she know that James don't can be explained by Laura, like I said. If Mary does had anything to do with Maria's creation, must be a very small portion, since Maria does everything she does in order to help James with what he wants, and not doing what Mary wanted. She's all there for James and he's wishes.

_________________
"Good people should love their enemies" - Seu Madruga


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