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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
St. Thomas wrote:
There it is. That was the variation I'd forgotten.

This is quite an interesting concept. I never knew that different punctuations could alter the meaning of the memo.

It seems though the version Squarehead posted is the correct one. The Japanese script did not allow for alternative interpretations.

The 8th Aspect wrote:
Anyway, that was the information I was looking for too. I can't tie it to anything and I find it hard to believe it's just random.

This may seem a bit far-fetched depending on how you look at it, but I've thought there was a connection between the "lady of the door" and this Aztec goddess named, Tlazolteotl. Granted, Aztec gods are rarely, if ever, depicted in a modern manner such as the painting in Brookhaven, but its characteristics seem to match the theme of Silent Hill 2.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 490
The woman in the door freaked me out at first, because I just saw ARMS, and I think I gave a "BAH!" out loud.

Speaking of the rings, though... Why the heck was the lead one in a refrigerator? It's just way too random for it to be unintentionally random.

At least the gold ring seemed to have some significance, since it was actually papered over, with painted hands and arms hands and arms reaching and straining for it. Even James remarks on it. It rather reminded me of a wedding band at first... though it'd be a little atypical, what with a spider on it.

So why a little ugly lead ring in a tipped-over fridge? Also, Maria has to help you open it, which may or may not be significant. Though she didn't like it, or want it.

Also, the poem sorta goes back to the rings. Walking the bridge of thread sounds rather like a spider, doesn't it? And the ugly and bloated corpses sound like the distorted, 'bloated' face on the lead ring. Who is this angel (who may be a demon)?


Last edited by Sionnan on 17 Mar 2007, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Why does it have to have meaning? You find a radio in a construction site. You find a gun in a shopping cart. *shrug* Why can't they simply be odd locations for an item?

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 16 Jul 2006
Notes left: 531
Krist would i normally agree 99% with you about that, but Sionnan just presented pretty heavy arguments. In fact so much so that i couldn't get sleep. Never thought about the rings or the poem being important or just didn't care.

To Sionnan: let me sum up what you're trying to imply?

So the rings are sort of like wedding rings, symbolizing fidelity, where the spider (a black widow? heh heh hee) sort of represents "jealousy" that is a price that must be accepted with the marriage. On the other hand the lead wedding ring, Jesus i never even thought of that, well obviously represents the burden of fidelity. Of course Maria doesn't want these rings, she's a total whore!

James gives these two rings to the two hands. If i remember correctly, this occurs just before "something happens in that long hallway" below the hospital? This cannot be a coincidence, even i don't think that, and i'm pretty sceptical about all this symbolism nonsense!

SPOILERS:

Giving the rings is the only way to get ahead on the quest for Mary who is represented by the Angel in the Poem and the hands in the wall. So giving the rings, as said before on page 1, is James's way of showing his devotion and fidelity to Mary, sort of wedding her; giving the Lead ring means he is ready to take back the responsibilities towards her dead wife he once rejected(too late now, bitch!) and be loyal to her. The Spider ring symbolizes the jealousy James imagines his wife would feel towards Maria. Giving it to the other hand in the wall is James's way of saying "I accept your jealousy becouse it's part of fidelity. Do what you must to help me be with you". Thus he pretty much gives the Pyramid Head license to kill Maria.

Becouse, James felt (subconsciously or before he "snapped") that he had murdered his wife to be free again, for his lust for other women. (I'm not saying he was right) So, to support his delusion that he didn't kill his wife he had to act like he was the most pleasant and faithful man on Earth, becouse if he was, then surely he had no reason to kill his wife, right? (Again, not neccessarily agreeing with him on that). So he needs the Pyramid Head to devour "the Sinner and the Sin alike", Maria. Thus the Angel represents both Pyramid Head and Mary. Or something. And after he gets out of the hospital there is only Mary left for him as he says.

By letting - no, HAVING - the Pyramid Head (The Spider), who in his subconsciousness is sort of a moral guardian sent by Mary (The Angel), kill Maria (The Sinner), he cleanses himself of the sin of lust (The Sin), making him faithful to her Angel (walking The Bridge of Thread) and thus of the sin of murder (The other Sin which is a direct consequence of the Sin of Lust) as well. By blind faith, he subconsciously intends to prove himself he is not a murderer by finding Mary. THAT is why the imaginary undead Mary is The Angel, becouse by believing in Her and being faithful (walking The Bridge of Thread again) James cleanses himself of the ultimate sin of REDRUM. Of course, he's wrong, and besides his spiritual growth in Leave ending the elaborate fantasy world he crafted is for nought... except in the Resurrection ending. :twisted:

The opening of the fridge door with Maria might symbolize that James ironically needs Maria's help to show his faithfulness to Mary: he needs to let her die. Of course this fails in the Maria Ending becouse James learns that he can't get Mary either way so as a backup plan he chooses the next best thing.

On the other hand the fridge might just be a creep inducer: finding a ring in a place where you usually store FLESH is kinda freeky (maybe James stored Mary in a fridge? :shock: ).

...

Holy shit, i never even read that long book. Sorry for the rant, i know some of this was pretty much common knowledge around these here forums.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Really, I can't get into those kinds of theories or observations anymore. It seems like stretching something beyond its limits, into entirely speculative, based on "well this sounds like this and it seems to fit in with this so here's that" notions. I can't argue against what you guys said more than just that - I think you're stretching it. Yes, I know we're at a Silent Hill forum. Yes, I know people debate and create theories. But that doesn't mean we have to consider every single notion that comes along. So James needed help opening a fridge. Odd, yeah. So the bloated face on the ring ties in with the bloated and ugly corpses - interesting, but significance? I'm willing to go so far as a connexion between the images on the rings and the description of the poem but that's it. I'm not looking to find some hidden, deeper meaning behind it all because none of that makes sense to me. Sorry.

James didn't store Mary in a fridge. He'd have no access to it, [spoiler]having disposed of her post haste.[/spoiler] But I'm sure someone will come up some kind of far-reaching theory about that*.


*Note. Not suggesting that sionnan or your posts were far-reaching.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 19 Feb 2006
Notes left: 1444
Last seen at: Californication
Thanks for punctuating the poem and Burning Man, that was an interesting read.

I'm also leaning towards the idea that the rings and fridge idea are a bit of a stretch, but who knows, you may have something valid. In any case, thanks for the interesting theories.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2007
Notes left: 79
Last seen at: Norway
I happen to think the ringe being in the fridge is just a coincident. Not everything in a game HAS to mean something.

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Darkness lurks even in the minds of the innocente


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 21 Dec 2005
Notes left: 458
Last seen at: NYC
Actually, the gun in the shopping cart is a stab at how easy it is to purchase guns in America. :wink:


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 16 Jul 2006
Notes left: 531
I can't come up with a theory on what the link you provided has to do with what you said, Knick Knack? I don't seriously believe that everything has a deeper meaning, i just wanted to come up with some answers to what Sionnan asked 'couse i found his thoughts interesting, and got a bit over excited. An yes, some of it did get a bit far reaching. It's Silent Hill, so you never know, you know?

I do believe, however, that the poem has some meaning and the rings probably do as well, though admittedly a lot of my ideas concerning them were a stretch (the one about the spider for sure) and purely personal beliefs.

Quote:
James didn't store Mary in a fridge. He'd have no access to it, Spoiler:
[spoiler]
having disposed of her post haste.
[/spoiler]

Are you certain? You mean he left immediately after he did "it"? It's just that i'd like to think that the fridge that smelled horrible was there to at least suggest something weird.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 490
Errrrm. I'm a she Squarehead. :wink:

But, at any rate, KnickKnack kinda proved my point, too- the shopping cart wasn't random, but it seemed to me and to a lot of other people that it sure as hell was one of the most random things in the game. (Note: you can buy 9mm bullets in some K-Marts. x_x) Thanks for the fact.

Anyway- I like your theory Squarehead, even if I can't subscribe to it. I like the idea that they may represent aspects of fidelity, but I'm not quite convinced.

And, well... we've had lots of things in the forum that seemed pointless, but people created great big theories around. No harm in trying, or just thinking about them, right? After all, that's what this is here for, to discuss the aspects of the game.

Anyway, just a few observations about the rings- one's gold, the highest metal. Or most pure, most valuable, whatever. Maybe the fact it has a spider on it reinforces that it's supposed to be pure, because the 'angel' in the poem had a lot of spider-like characteristics. Also, the hands in the paintings behind the wallpaper were all clamoring for it- it's desired, in others words. It probably represents the highest values. But this is just an idea. I very well may be looking too much into it.

The other ring is lead- the basest, heaviest metal. It'll always sink. It's got a bloated face on it, probably representing the baser side of humanity. Also, in the poem, it said how the people who try to walk the bridge of thread fall because of the weight of their sins. Now, the bloated face is, obviously, human. To be human is to err, and all that. But the fact that it says it's bloated and distorted kinda reminds me of the place it's found in: a fridge. Gluttony, and what have you. Further reinforcement for the idea it may represent the uglier side of people and life.

But you need both to move on. Maybe James needs to start seeing the ugly aspect of his own story in order to move ahead in his life and find closure?

I think the angel in the poem is a personal sort of savior, whoever that might be. For James, it's Mary, for the Joseph it was Louise.

Yeah, I realize. Again, I'm probably seeing way too much into it. But it's fun to think about it all the same. Very few games will let you do this, especially violent or disturbing games.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 09 Mar 2004
Notes left: 4987
Last seen at: Pits of Hell
The punctuation is awesome! It's unbelievable how the poem took a different turn.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Kiss the rings, bitch.

Missing since: 16 Jul 2006
Notes left: 531
Quote:
Note: you can buy 9mm bullets in some K-Marts. x_x

Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

Quote:
The other ring is lead- the basest, heaviest metal. It'll always sink. It's got a bloated face on it, probably representing the baser side of humanity...

Ok, you lost me there. I'm losing touch with my feminine side :cry:

I thought you were originally hinting that the rings were symbolic wedding rings and the one being made of lead ment how James felt of his marriage to Mary when she became sick: that it was a burden. I guess that's what i originally wanted to say but it was late when i was posting that.

I can't believe that there's an advertisement for wedding rings on this page right now. Obviously, it's a sign from Jesus H. Christ that the wedding ring theory was correct all along!! Hallelujah!!!

...or it could be adware tracking everything that is being said here... :shock:

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2007
Notes left: 65
First time I saw the Lady of the Door, I was frightened, because I believed it would later turn into a monstrous woman; you may or may not have seen a chock link where there's a song text that is scrolling and you also hear a woman sing the text, then a few seconds later the lyrics becomes a picture of the possessed girl from The Exorcist and the sound changes to a sudden human-but-still-scary scream. I could barely click on the 'X' button because even when putting my hand on the computer screen, the parts my hand couldn't cover was still frightening for me. I expected the same to happen when I saw the Lady of the Door, with the exception of a normal woman (that would turn into a grotesque incarnation) instead of lyrics, and with the addition that the hands would strangle James.

Anyway, I remember finding the Lady of the Door resembling Mary (mother of Jesus), which also to some extent connects to Mary (James' wife), but now when I'm told this, it does indeed makes me think of a deified Alessa.

Burning Man wrote:
This may seem a bit far-fetched depending on how you look at it, but I've thought there was a connection between the "lady of the door" and this Aztec goddess named, Tlazolteotl. Granted, Aztec gods are rarely, if ever, depicted in a modern manner such as the painting in Brookhaven, but its characteristics seem to match the theme of Silent Hill 2.


Doesn't one see a lot of references to Aztec and Mayan culture in the Silent Hill games? I remember there was three items in Silent Hill 2 which were pictures in Aztec style. If this is the case, I don't think your theory is that far-fetched.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 14 Dec 2006
Notes left: 68
Last seen at: Above the Earth, Below the Sky
Sionnan wrote:
At least the gold ring seemed to have some significance, since it was actually papered over, with painted hands and arms hands and arms reaching and straining for it. Even James remarks on it. It rather reminded me of a wedding band at first... though it'd be a little atypical, what with a spider on it.


actually that ring wasn't made out of gold, it was made out of copper rather, and it was found in the basement's basement, not in the wall with the painted arms and hands. Not trying to be a tard, just a little clarification that's all :?

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
yeah, the wall with the hands had the battery.

the bloated face made me think of drowned people. i dunno about the spider.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 25 Aug 2006
Notes left: 146
Last seen at: Phillipines,Davao City
SquareHead wrote:
SPOILERS:

Giving the rings is the only way to get ahead on the quest for Mary who is represented by the Angel in the Poem and the hands in the wall. So giving the rings, as said before on page 1, is James's way of showing his devotion and fidelity to Mary, sort of wedding her; giving the Lead ring means he is ready to take back the responsibilities towards her dead wife he once rejected(too late now, bitch!) and be loyal to her. The Spider ring symbolizes the jealousy James imagines his wife would feel towards Maria. Giving it to the other hand in the wall is James's way of saying "I accept your jealousy becouse it's part of fidelity. Do what you must to help me be with you". Thus he pretty much gives the Pyramid Head license to kill Maria.

Becouse, James felt (subconsciously or before he "snapped") that he had murdered his wife to be free again, for his lust for other women. (I'm not saying he was right) So, to support his delusion that he didn't kill his wife he had to act like he was the most pleasant and faithful man on Earth, becouse if he was, then surely he had no reason to kill his wife, right? (Again, not neccessarily agreeing with him on that). So he needs the Pyramid Head to devour "the Sinner and the Sin alike", Maria. Thus the Angel represents both Pyramid Head and Mary. Or something. And after he gets out of the hospital there is only Mary left for him as he says.

By letting - no, HAVING - the Pyramid Head (The Spider), who in his subconsciousness is sort of a moral guardian sent by Mary (The Angel), kill Maria (The Sinner), he cleanses himself of the sin of lust (The Sin), making him faithful to her Angel (walking The Bridge of Thread) and thus of the sin of murder (The other Sin which is a direct consequence of the Sin of Lust) as well. By blind faith, he subconsciously intends to prove himself he is not a murderer by finding Mary. THAT is why the imaginary undead Mary is The Angel, becouse by believing in Her and being faithful (walking The Bridge of Thread again) James cleanses himself of the ultimate sin of REDRUM. Of course, he's wrong, and besides his spiritual growth in Leave ending the elaborate fantasy world he crafted is for nought... except in the Resurrection ending.

The opening of the fridge door with Maria might symbolize that James ironically needs Maria's help to show his faithfulness to Mary: he needs to let her die. Of course this fails in the Maria Ending becouse James learns that he can't get Mary either way so as a backup plan he chooses the next best thing.


I was gonna post something similiar to that.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 May 2007
Notes left: 47
Last seen at: Silent Hill
Knick Knack wrote:
There are actually alot more ladies present near the door than I initially thought/noticed.

Image

Do any of these women look slightly familiar? Maybe they appeared in paintings from later games?


Awesome scan, btw, the lady in the bottom left kinda looks just like the lady on the door, same position if im not mistaken.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19439
Last seen at: #lfk
That's because it is.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 May 2007
Notes left: 47
Last seen at: Silent Hill
I never noticed the other ladies though.

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"In my restless dreams....i see that town...Silent Hill"


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 26 Oct 2006
Notes left: 921
Last seen at: Southern WI
Doesn't one see a lot of references to Aztec and Mayan culture in the Silent Hill games? I remember there was three items in Silent Hill 2 which were pictures in Aztec style. If this is the case, I don't think your theory is that far-fetched.

There are a number of Aztec and Mayan references, particularly to certain facets of their religion. However, most of what some people have pinned as related to those cultures also have large places in other ancient civilizations and religions. They're not necessarily confined to those two. Their religion was not all that dissimilar to ones that were in the Old World.


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