Real final? and in water question (SPOILER ALERT)

Post by **Goodnight** » 09 Apr 2006

I'm undecided in the whole debate, but I do think Rebirth is the most plausible.

No information that tells you the "true" ending of the game has been given (Frank's teaser could pertain to every single one of those endings), and I highly doubt it every will be. Silent Hill 2 is supposed to be ambiguous. I think the nature of the whole game is concisely summed up by Maria:

"I am, if you want me to be."

Post by **The Adversary** » 09 Apr 2006

>The Rebirth ceremony may not be a ritual of The Order.
Correct. It's a ritual from the natives.

>dead wife writing you after you killed her....
Mary didn't write the letter from beyond the grave. She wrote it the day before she died.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 09 Apr 2006

If there were a "true ending", I wouldn't have liked this game this much.

Not that I hate to watch somebody's intellectual dick-measuring contest thogh.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 07 May 2006

I don't consider Water ending to be true ending, but, to make a point:
Even though it takes only a short bit for him to be in the water, who is to say that time isn't accelerated in the gameplay to avoid loss in momentum for the observer interested in the story. Ever see a movie where you go from one scene and then suddenly it's a few minutes later? You are to assume the vehicle went from point A to point B. Time doesn't have to be to scale. Just my opinion, though. Also, I disagree with the idea of basing true endings on Team Silent's future products. How does the future determine the past if the past hasn't really been written? Since these games are meant to be open-ended, we can't base the true ending on what Team Silent comes out with later on. I mean, they have to pick some story line one way or another, and it's bound to refute some endings and not others regardless of what form the new product takes.

Post by **The Adversary** » 07 May 2006

>we can't base the true ending on what Team Silent comes out with later on.
Tell that to Silent Hill 1 then.

Post by **DaneCrystane** » 08 May 2006

Is it just me or does everyone flame any theory with "he/she died" in it?

Post by **Doo-glas** » 31 Oct 2007

alone in the town wrote:I love when people are bitter because they lack the capacity to win an intellectual dick-measuring contest. It's cute. And pathetic. Patheticute.

In-Water is a shit ending, full of holes and lacking any kind of redemptive value. The over-glorified GAME OVER ending. Makes no sense no matter how it's examined.

--------

James: Well, I want to drive my car into the lake and die a painful, suffocating death. Unfortunately, I can't do it here where I parked, because there's a wall and fifty feet of trees between me and the lake. Guess I'll have to find another point.

*five minutes later*

James: Doo dee doo... nope, this point simply won't do, won't be airborne long enough.
*five minutes later*

James: Crap, this won't work either. Too many trees.

*ten minutes later*

James: Nope. I'll hit mud and I won't submerge.

*fifteen minutes later*

James: Ahh, the perfect place from which to leap to my drowning death! The emo kids shall be satisfied! Vroom! NEEERRR KER-SPLASH! I'm comin', Mary! This is the big one!

-----------

Ridiculous. It's a joke ending without any humor.

I lol'd

yeah sorry, but I hated the "In Water" ending, talk about an anti-climax(I also expected to see his car floating down after Mary's letter was over)

my personal fav was "Leave"(hey I like happy endings, so sue me), but I do have to agree with The Adversary that "rebirth" is the most likely considering the Ernest Baldwin and "Born From A Wish" subplots

however this begs the question what becomes of James? does he succeed? personally I wouldn't trust the "old gods" of Silent Hill any further than I could throw them

Post by **Oddish** » 21 Feb 2008

Using canonical evidence from SH4, I would say that "In Water" seems to make the most sense. The implication is that James and Mary went off to Silent Hill and never returned, which is what happens in In Water. I don't like that ending, but it fits the story.

As for "Leave", there is presumably no evidence that James was ever a suspect in Mary's death, so why would he disappear? If he takes Laura back to wherever she came from, it would be known that he did return from SH. I suppose he could have disappeared with her, like in Ryan Usher's wonderfully written story, but if you're going to live on the run, why take an innocent kid with you?

Yes, I know that in my fic (posted in Indian Runner), I went with "Leave", but I made no effort to adhere to canon outside of SH2. And the fic in question was pretty mediocre anyway, the first two chapters were pretty good, then James and Laura kind of drifted out of character.

As for "Maria", James would have returned from Silent HIll, he would have simply been delusional. That's not the same as not returning at all. Mr. Sunderland would likely have said that his son returned from the place mad as a rat in a tin outhouse, or something like that.

And finally, assuming James did successfully resurrect Mary ("Rebirth"), then they would both have returned from Silent Hill.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 22 Feb 2008

Using canonical evidence from SH4, I would say that "In Water" seems to make the most sense. The implication is that James and Mary went off to Silent Hill and never returned, which is what happens in In Water. I don't like that ending, but it fits the story.

Or maybe he just never returned home. If Mary is gone and he returns home with Laura or Maria or a resurrected Mary, he'd have some explaining to do.

As for "Leave", there is presumably no evidence that James was ever a suspect in Mary's death, so why would he disappear? If he takes Laura back to wherever she came from, it would be known that he did return from SH. I suppose he could have disappeared with her, like in Ryan Usher's wonderfully written story, but if you're going to live on the run, why take an innocent kid with you?

He's not "on the run", he just started a new life. Besides, it's not like adoptive fathers in Silent Hill's universe haven't done it before.

As for "Maria", James would have returned from Silent HIll, he would have simply been delusional. That's not the same as not returning at all. Mr. Sunderland would likely have said that his son returned from the place mad as a rat in a tin outhouse, or something like that.

Perhaps he didn't die in Silent Hill, but as long as he keeps Maria or a resurrected Mary, he's still trapped in the Otherworld?

Post by **Oddish** » 22 Feb 2008

QUOTE: If Mary is gone and he returns home with Laura or Maria or a resurrected Mary, he'd have some explaining to do.
Mary, fully healthy: Yeah, probably.
Maria: Yes. But sooner or later, someone's going to realize that he's crackers and institutionalize him, then call his next of kin.
Laura: Not really. He simply explains that he's honoring Mary's final wish in adopting her.

QUOTE: He's not "on the run", he just started a new life.
And he never even called or wrote to his family, letting them know that he was all right? It doesn't seem to be in character for him.

QUOTE: Perhaps he didn't die in Silent Hill, but as long as he keeps Maria or a resurrected Mary, he's still trapped in the Otherworld?
Urghhh... I suppose that's entirely possible. But what form does the Otherworld take? An empty world full of mist? A nightmare world, where everything's filthy and falling apart, and full of monsters? Or maybe he falls all the way down the rabbit hole, and meets whatever horror dwells at the bottom.

Another reason why I prefer "Leave."

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 22 Feb 2008

Laura: Not really. He simply explains that he's honoring Mary's final wish in adopting her.

"Uh...what'd you do with Mary's body?"

And he never even called or wrote to his family, letting them know that he was all right? It doesn't seem to be in character for him.

Who are you to say that? James' character is pretty open to define.

Urghhh... I suppose that's entirely possible. But what form does the Otherworld take? An empty world full of mist? A nightmare world, where everything's filthy and falling apart, and full of monsters? Or maybe he falls all the way down the rabbit hole, and meets whatever horror dwells at the bottom.

Another reason why I prefer "Leave."

That's a pretty poor piece of reason. Also, given that by the end of the game he's completed the Trial of the Abyss, it'll probably be misty.

Post by **Oddish** » 23 Feb 2008

QUOTE: "Uh...what'd you do with Mary's body?"
It's never actually stated that James has Mary's body stashed in the trunk of his car. Nor is it stated that James is a fugitive from justice. Obviously, if either of these things is true, then James is going to be either running or hiding for the rest of his life. Euthanasia is considered murder, and there is no statute of limitations on murder. But as far as I know, Frank does not mention that his son was a murder suspect.

QUOTE: James' character is pretty open to define.
The only family that he mentions is Mary, and it seems to me that he cared for her very much. Otherwise, her sickness would not have made him snap the way he did. I would think that he would at least let his father know that he was all right, even if he chose to vanish.

QUOTE: That's a pretty poor piece of reason.
It was not reason, it was speculation. I mentioned a total of four possibilities:
1. The real world (where questions would be asked)
2. Misty Silent Hill (the town that Laura sees)
3. Nightmare Silent Hill (the alternate hospital, the prison/abyss, and the "night" sequence in between)
4. Somewhere further along the progression - Normal town -> Misty town -> Nightmare town -> ?????

QUOTE: Also, given that by the end of the game he's completed the Trial of the Abyss, it'll probably be misty.
But that doesn't mean he'll be out of danger.

Post by **AzureDemon** » 23 Feb 2008

The "in water" ending would have been much better if we could at least see him getting in the car...
And seriously..I wanted to hear "splash" >.>

Post by **Mis Krist.** » 23 Feb 2008

But did you have to in order to know what was going on? I think it works just as fine without either of those bits, to be honest--you know what's happening and I think the fact that you DON'T see it/hear his impossible descent makes it more unnerving.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 23 Feb 2008

It's never actually stated that James has Mary's body stashed in the trunk of his car. Nor is it stated that James is a fugitive from justice. Obviously, if either of these things is true, then James is going to be either running or hiding for the rest of his life. Euthanasia is considered murder, and there is no statute of limitations on murder. But as far as I know, Frank does not mention that his son was a murder suspect.

Actually, we do know that he has Mary's body in the car with him, since he's able to provide the corpse in the appropriate endings, and we know for a fact that Mary only died a matter of hours ago.

The only family that he mentions is Mary, and it seems to me that he cared for her very much. Otherwise, her sickness would not have made him snap the way he did. I would think that he would at least let his father know that he was all right, even if he chose to vanish.

But by that same reasoning, if James treats Mary like the only family he has, maybe he doesn't care enough about his father to keep him informed.

But that doesn't mean he'll be out of danger.

I never said anything to the contrary, but while we're on the subject, he probably won't encounter any hostile phenomena.

Post by **Video Gamer** » 23 Feb 2008

A matter of hours ago? Than where did he kill her?

Post by **AzureDemon** » 24 Feb 2008

A matter of hours ago...yeah...but I don't think that was the real her...rather I think it was her feelings for him towards the end....after all she does say "you are suffering because you killed me....that's enough". SO yeah...I think that was more of a memoir with a physic body.

And yet...we all fall back to the same subject...we can only speculate...we all for certain know that she was dead before he arrived after silent hill...he did say "I got a letter ...from my dead wife"

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 24 Feb 2008

A matter of hours ago? Than where did he kill her?

Home. He only lives a few hours from Silent Hill.

A matter of hours ago...yeah...but I don't think that was the real her...rather I think it was her feelings for him towards the end....after all she does say "you are suffering because you killed me....that's enough". SO yeah...I think that was more of a memoir with a physic body.

Wrong.

Post by **AzureDemon** » 24 Feb 2008

I would love it if you would try at least to make some sense rather than just answer like that.

If I'm wrong (most likely since I haven't played silent hill 2 in about 2 years) at least enlighten me...

Post by **The Adversary** » 24 Feb 2008

You should look round the forum: I've answered all of these questions before.

Your signature's still too big.

And hell I even went and did some of the work for ya: http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=132