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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
Witness420 wrote:
... then the two P.H.'s pike themselves, a sign of frivolity.


Frivolity? You think suicide is just an expression of merriment to the pyramid things? :?

I think the word you're looking for is futility.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
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I've just recently read something interesting about the Winnebago hero myth. There's four cycles of this myth: The Trickster, The Hare, Red Horn, and the Twins. It's possible that the two PHs could be a reference to the Twins archetype since Silent Hill used to be occupied by the Native Indians.
The following passage is taking from Joseph L. Henderson's Ancient Myths and Modern Man. Henderson summarized this passage of the Winnebago Hero Twins from Dr. Paul Radin's Hero Cycles of the Winnebago:

Though the Twins are said to be the sons of the Sun, they are essentially human and together constitute a single person. Originally united in the mother's womb, they were forced apart at birth. Yet they belong together, and it is necessary--though exceedingly difficult--to reunite them. In these two children we see the two sides of man's nature. One of them, Flesh, is acquiescent, mild, and without initiative; the other, Stump, is dynamic and rebellious. In some of the stories of the Twin Heroes these attitudes are refined to the point where one figure represents the introvert, whose main strength lies in his powers of reflection, and the other is an extravert, a man of action who can accomplish great deeds.
For a long time these two heroes are invincible: Whether they are presented as two separate figures or as two-in-one, they carry all before them. Yet, like the warrior gods of Navaho Indian mythology, they eventually sicken from the abuse of their own power. There are no monsters left in heaven or on earth for them to overcome, and their consequent wild behaviour brings retribution in its train. The Winnebago say that nothing, in the end, was safe from them--not even the supports on which the world rests. When the Twins killed one of the four animals that upheld the earth, they had overstepped all limits, and the time had come to put a stop to their carrer. The punishment they deserved was death.


Henderson further added, "the Twins represent the theme of sacrifice or death of the hero as a necessary cure for hybris, the pride that has over-reached itself."
In mytho-psychology, the Twins represent the total psyche--the Self. Once the conscious and unconscious are in good term, the heroic essence of man emerges, leading to man's great successes (or turmoils, in James' case). Once there are no achievements left to be conquered, the man becomes "god-like" and the pride eventually consumes him. The man is then defeated by divinity/nature--things those are beyond his control.
Now, the two Pyramid Heads can symbolize this very Twins myth, but with some twists (I am very well aware that James isn't someone we would call a Hero).
The two Pyramid Heads represent James' Flesh and Stump, who have already stepped over the (moral) limit with the murder of Mary. Notice that the two Pyramid Heads fight occurs after James has realized that he was guilty (this realization can also be a reference to the Red Horn cycle--but I won't go into that for this post has already become exceedingly long).
Before James came to realize the fact that he killed Mary, Flesh, the introvert, dwelled inside James' mind. Stump, the extravert, on the other hand, represented the Pyramid Head whom James first met in the Appartment. After the cut-scene in the hotel, James realized that it was both Flesh and Stump (himself) who killed Mary. James forced Flesh to leave his psyche (disgusted at his own doing). Flesh then metaphysically manifested itself into the second Pyramid Head. Along with Stump, Flesh was confronted by James. In this two Pyramid Heads fight, James no longer had either Flesh or Stump--he had lost his Self. So then, what replaced the James' Self during the confrontation of his own psyche? According to the Twins myth, it was the God, the divinity, who punished the Twins (a third hand, a factor beyond James' own control). Thus James was granted the power by the God of Silent Hill to fight against his own wholeness. After the fight, James recieved two eggs. The eggs could signify the renewal of James' psyche--a cleansing if you will. Another recurring Rebirth theme in the Silent Hill franchises (though I'm not suggesting that the Rebirth ending is the true ending).

Though the Twins erred, and though the punishment should have been death, they themselves became so frightened by their irresponsible power that they consented to live in a state of permanent rest: The conflicting sides of human nature were again in equilibrium.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 Sep 2006
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Last seen at: Up shit creek without a paddle.
I love your post... while reading it for some reason the Matrix trilogy popped into my head. While I pondered the reasoning behind this, I remembered the end and how ultimately Agent Smith was defeated. Going with that knowledge, I came up with the following:

The first PH was created as a result of James's need for punishment. However, his denial and delusions prevented him from fully experiencing his self-imposed sentence. PH killed James's romanticized (sp?) version of his wife repeatedly, in an effort to both punish and remind James of the reality of the situation. The event that triggered the "birth" of the second PH was James's viewing of the video tape. This effectively closed the "punishment" phase of the game. What James had to do next was make a decision on what he was going to do as a result of the information he was given. Because James can't physically kill PH (as he embodies self-punishment) he needed the second PH to step in (his acceptance of his actions) and "cancel out" the first one. This enables James to proceed to the final boss fight, and ultimately, to get the ending that is appropriate to the gameplay.

Anyway, just a thought... I don't think it's 100% correct but maybe it's on the right track...

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Amphrehended, that is one of the best posts I've read on the subject.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
^Seconded. I've learned something new, today.

And here I was about to simply agree with Harrys_Girl from the first page...

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 29 May 2006
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Erm, no, Scott. The PH fight is timed. Even if you don't do anything, it eventually ends.


r u sure about this cuz im not...my friend complained me once he was fighting them after 40 mins of shooting still nothing he evetualy got killed he was playing on hard though


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Quote:
he was playing on hard though
Either your friend was exaggerating (this happens sometimes, you know), or the fact that he was playing on "Hard" should answer your question. I believe it is a combination of the two factors, most likely.

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[size=85]GAME FOR SCIENCE!! When you finish the 1st part, set a timer for 30 minutes, play your eyeballs out! When the time is up, complete the survey!

BACK FROM THE DEAD, BITCHES


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 26 Oct 2006
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Quote:
He is fully aware that he killed Mary, and always has been,


That's somewhat debateable. While he certainly knows what he did, he's buried it so deep in his mind that it simply isn't real to him anymore. To him, it never happened. That's a well documented way that some people cope with unbearable amounts of pain or guilt.

Some rape victims simply subconciously will themselves to forget. In effect, they don't realize they wre raped. They deny it so forcefully that their brain refuses to recognize it. In effect, it never happened. They never remember what happened until something causes those supressed memories to rise up and force them to confront it.

Likewise, James no longer even recognizes what he did to Mary until it's all presented to him again and he's unable to deny it.

That is, at least, what I understood to be the case.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 18 May 2006
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I have a thought about the 2 PH's, though its far more simple....

Silent Hill 2: Two PH's, two playable characters (James/Maria)
Silent Hill 3: Three Alessas, three endings (i think?)
Silent Hill 4: Four endings, four in-game victims (i think?)

See a pattern?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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That's kind've stretching it. For one thing, there's only two endings in SH3 anyway unless you count the UFO ending.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 16 Nov 2006
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I think Amphreded has had the coolest explanation. That sounds like an obscure enough reference for the Silent Hill team to do. But anything short of asking the creators what they were trying to represent will end up being debatable. And, who really wants to know? I enjoy wondoring how people cn make something that so many people love, yet none of them can decide its true meaning.

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Should you feel that you are being overwhelmed by something, remember:
if something is more powerful then you can handle,
it will kill you.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 31 May 2005
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It is very simple each egg repressents one of james's victims. Rusty Egg=old blood (Mary) and Crimson Egg=new blood (eddie)

very simple so no need to over analyze it

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Everyone has killed an hour. Not casually or without thought but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.The violence comes from a combinations of giving up, and the resignation that getting past it is all you can accomplish. When at last it is over there is no evidence: no weapon, no blood, and no body. The only clue might be the shadow under your eyes or the line in the corner of your mouth indicating that something has been suffered, that in the privacy of your life you have lost something and the loss is to empty to share.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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It's not very simple, considering how there are some people who don't agree with that assessment of yours.

Some would go so far as to say trying to signify some type of meaning to the color of the eggs is overanalyzation.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 31 May 2005
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Not true, the eggs are speifiacally labled Crimson and Rusty, so their color is part of their symbolism, therefore coming up with a simple theory based on their colors is not an over analyization. It is not a strech to say, rusty represents old blood because dried blood is rust colored and that crimson represtents new blood because new blood is crimson. Nor is a strech to assume old blood refers to Mary while new blood refers to Eddie. Plus PH head is confirmed to be a manifestation of guilt and the need for punishment that james has, so logically, since James has "new blood" on his hands another PH head would appear to represent that guilt.

_________________
Everyone has killed an hour. Not casually or without thought but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.The violence comes from a combinations of giving up, and the resignation that getting past it is all you can accomplish. When at last it is over there is no evidence: no weapon, no blood, and no body. The only clue might be the shadow under your eyes or the line in the corner of your mouth indicating that something has been suffered, that in the privacy of your life you have lost something and the loss is to empty to share.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 27 Sep 2006
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I'm sick of people looking into everything too deeply, it's pathetic.

It makes the game scarier and harder, that's why they did it.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: XY (0,0)
FoxDie wrote:
Not true, the eggs are speifiacally labled Crimson and Rusty, so their color is part of their symbolism, therefore coming up with a simple theory based on their colors is not an over analyization. It is not a strech to say, rusty represents old blood because dried blood is rust colored and that crimson represtents new blood because new blood is crimson. Nor is a strech to assume old blood refers to Mary while new blood refers to Eddie. Plus PH head is confirmed to be a manifestation of guilt and the need for punishment that james has, so logically, since James has "new blood" on his hands another PH head would appear to represent that guilt.


Dear God... Looks like you hit a nerve Krist.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2005
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Talk2Luke wrote:
I'm sick of people looking into everything too deeply, it's pathetic.

It makes the game scarier and harder, that's why they did it.

How is it pathetic?
True that people often read into things too deeply with this series, but sometimes the analyzations do hold base.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2006
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:D wow, all this over a gloryfyed Edger Allen Poe Novel
lol


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Lemex wrote:
:D wow, all this over a gloryfyed Edger Allen Poe Novel
lol


Which one are you speeking of?

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I felt infinite.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 31 May 2005
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Last seen at: Fredericton
Quote:
Dear God... Looks like you hit a nerve Krist.


Hardly, I'm just stating my opinion

_________________
Everyone has killed an hour. Not casually or without thought but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.The violence comes from a combinations of giving up, and the resignation that getting past it is all you can accomplish. When at last it is over there is no evidence: no weapon, no blood, and no body. The only clue might be the shadow under your eyes or the line in the corner of your mouth indicating that something has been suffered, that in the privacy of your life you have lost something and the loss is to empty to share.


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