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 Post subject: Nine save points

OK, this topic may be closed quicker that you can say "it means nothing, Jim - shut up!", but I feel I must ask it.

Is there any significance to the nine save points before the fight with with the two Pyramid Heads? I can't think of any instance where the number nine crops up. The more I think about it, the more I feel it must mean something.

So what is it? Deep significance or sod all?


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Historical Society Historian
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I'm just randomly stabbing in the dark without thinking (I guess most dark stabbing is without too much thought) but could it be the number of save points encountered throughout the game?

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...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


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 Post subject:

Hmmm, could be - although it seems as if there are more than nine save points in the whole game. I'm replaying it at the moment, so I'll keep count.


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Historical Society Historian
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Ah okay.

Well personally, I always viewed this part as an abstraction of a frame and even moreso, a mirror; like James being prepared for reflection and self-(re?)-realization. Or even at that state already I guess.

The nine spaced save points create a more massive figure. It kind of connects and goes back to the actual dirty mirror in the beginning of the game, I believe.

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...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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^Interesting, care to explain a little more ?

I'm almost certain that there are more than 9 save points in the game, though.

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Historical Society Historian
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Haha, yeah I know I was just making something up on the spot with the number of save points. heheh.

Well the game starts off with James staring at himself in the mirror, a reflection of himself.
When we take times to delve into ourselves and put ourselves into context and understanding, internally we are reflecting. James is confused but determined in his search for Mary. He's searching for his context.

It comes to full circle when he arrives at the nine red squares, he has been repeatedly facing these red squares, perhaps symbolic of fragments of memories being re-collected? But anyway, he finally comes to face these nine squares, a collective of these memories and he faces them, a mirror. His full reflection is nearlying coming around into a full circle now with this massive "mirror"

I hope I worded that well...

_________________
...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


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 Post subject:

Not a stupid question at all. The reason that there are nine squares may be just because it's bigger, cooler and still symmetric to use nine squares for the most special saving point in the game. It basically forces you to save there and it also warns that something big is going on. This may be the reason that nine squares is used in the game. You probably knew this and this wasn't quite what you were asking so here is a little explainatory on the subject:

Number nine

So, I did a little search concerning the subject, nine - the number of Satan. I found this.

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/1368/666913.html


"And they both keep on infinitely multiplying & adding up to NINE. Satan's number. The number of the EGO, as it keeps returning unto itself. As a study of "The Unknown Known" shows, Satanic Forces work in variables of Nine --- Epochs & Ages. Keeping this in mind, also consider multiples of Nine in seconds, minutes, hours, Days, Months {as in Pregnancy, the genesis of Life}, Nine Years, etc.

Satan represents the flesh, carnal desire, all the considerations of the physical aspects of existence. Of material attainment. Satan is the body, with all its lusts, & which houses the brain, the wellspring of creation. As Nine signifies Satan, consider this...there are NINE bio-systems in the body, which comprise your being! Indeed, the sinews of Satan moving your flesh! No wonder blindlighters attempt to thwart themselves! To be purely Natural is the epitome of strong life!


THE NINE BIO-SYSTEMS
I. Skeletal.
II. Muscle.
III. Nervous.
IV. Digestive.
V. Repiratory
VI. Circulatory.
VII. Lymphatic.
VIII. Endocrine.
IX. Reproductive."



What comes to two pyramid heads...

"2

An the Qaballah, the number deliniated unto Satan as Promethius, is 2. Promethius is the Greek God who brought down the bliss of fire & light unto man. Lucifer's equivalent. He is also equivalent to Azazel, as He also brought the knowledge of cosmetics, & unto Abaddon, with the weapons of war.

A comparison can also be made with the serpent of Eden, who, of course, offered man the "knowledge of 'good & evil'", & the promise that Adam & Eve would "be as gods". Satan has always been man's greatest companion. Although man has, since xianity, been a miserable ingrate {Refer to the 4th Satanic Statement}. Throughout all mythology, there has always been the manifestation of Satan in on form or another. He always offers divinity, "forbidden" {the "f-word" for Satanists} & occult knowledge, & liberation from the stagnant tyrannical gods who would prefer to keep mankind in ignorance & subjection. Lucifer is always there, offering earthly delights to those with the courage to accept.

2 signifies Baphomet's horns thrust upwards in defiance, in bold rejection of servility. "God" skewered on the points.

The unity of the bestial & the civil in man, thus attaining the balance of the emotions & the intellect. Love & Lust, Love & Hate, Darkness & Light, Pain & Pleasure, The Macrocosm & The Micsocosm {"As above, so below"}, fantasy & reality ----- all these in equilibrium, one complimenting the other."


Perhaps it's not a coincidence like I originally thought.


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 Post subject:

Spoilers for SH2 ahead.




Actually there's another meaning of the number 9. It follows the gematria numeric system, and according to it the number 9 = Divine Completeness From God.

The #2 for the two Pyramid Heads

2 = Union or Witness

If we count in Maria and get 3

3 = Divine Completeness

As we all know 3 is the only dividend for 9 besides 1 and 9. 3 = Divine Completeness, and 9 = Divine Completeness From God.

1 = Unity or Beginning

http://www.cuttingedge.org/pages/seminar2/GEMATRIA.htm

Knowing this, here's the scenario again.

James sees the 9 squares which so far only hint at this story being completed. James enters the room and sees Two Pyramid Heads and Maria (often said to be another PH) Two+One = 3. The story is soon to be completed, but now take away Maria and you get two. The two pyramid heads who as a union will witness James come to terms with his guilt. After the two PHs kill themselves, and James kills Marya the meaning of the nine red squares is now known. James has been divinely completed, the story is completed, by a higher force.


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 Post subject:

Nah, I support the Ego side of number nine. This story is about James afterall.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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The nine red squares could be symbolism of the nine worlds of Yggdrasil.

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Time is a skill, thats why you have to make the best moments last. Allow me to start by kicking you in the throat while masterbating to the sound of your own extinction.


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Historical Society Historian
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I'm believing what I believe but I find them both interesting interpretations.
It's just I connect more with forms than numbers.

_________________
...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


Last edited by Littlestardweller on 22 Nov 2005, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:

The story is about all those who felt guilt. It's just as much Mary's story as it Jame's story.

SAQOA what is this Yggdrasil?


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Historical Society Historian
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Yggdrasil is the world tree from Norse mythology, but I know SAQOA can elaborate.

_________________
...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


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Moderator
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I believe it means...SAVE because they next thing is a mo fo!!


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 Post subject:

but not looking into things is no fun at all!


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Moderator
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I don't look into every single thing in these games...it's just too much.


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RESPECT
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And besides: It isn't always necessary.

The save points themselves are simply windows from our world, reality, to James'.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject:

You are right.


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Historical Society Historian
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Maybe a reference to a window?

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Norse Mythology kicks ass.

In an interview with somebody that worked on Team Silent Hill, I think I recall somebody saying that the Red Save Points were like a window into the fabric of time, so if the character died, essentially, they would be able to return to that point in time to restart.

I think the fact that is it 9 Red Save Points together, just means that all of the missing pieces are starting to come together for James and it is like the accumulation and congregation of things leading up to a story's climax. All of the missing points in time from his subconscious memory are starting to make sense.

The pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together.

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