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 Post subject: Writing my dissertation on Silent Hill 2!

Hi folks! New to the forum, have recently decided to write my dissertation on the game silent hill 2 to prove once and for all that games can constitute narratives.

If anyone has anything to say about the narrative in SH2 pleas please post, I am loving everyones opinions and also if you know anything about joseph campbell and the heros journey and you can apply your points to this, extra marks for you!


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
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...you want anything specific, or...?
Just saying 'anything about the narrative in Silent Hill 2' dosnt really narrow it down.
Contrary to my bad jokes and general twattery, I do know about Silent Hill, so I could be of some help.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
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Joseph Campbell? I'm confused...but kudos to you for writing a disscertation on SH. I did my last 2 English finals on it. Go you!

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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Everyone seems to be getting this but me, what exactly are you asking?


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Just Passing Through
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A heros journey? James wasn't really on a heros journey. It was more of a kill stuff with a stick journey.


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Hope House Careworker
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No I think the Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey thing was in reference to something else...

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 Post subject: ok lets do this...

i want to prove that a game can be a narrative, various dimwit academics have said they can't, for various dimwit reasons such as:
a narrative has to be a re-telling
there is no character acting in games
games do not ask you to suspend your belief

so any point that refers to sh having a clear narrative is good news

this heros journey lark goes like so:

the hero is called to action
there is a possible refusal of the call
the hero faces lots of little trails
he faces a godess
he faces atonement with the father
and lo and behold he comes through/ dies and is in some way a bit of a hero
for this he either gets to live/ bring some sort of prize or justice home/ be a master of two worlds...


in a nutshell, as i am feeling particularly tired and hungry today :)


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2005
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It sounds like you got a good concept going there...good luck. :D

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 Post subject: Re: ok lets do this...

eggwhite wrote:
i want to prove that a game can be a narrative, various dimwit academics have said they can't, for various dimwit reasons


Then why bother? If you ask me, you're risking grades to prove nothing anyone besides us cares about.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
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KnightWolfe wrote:
A heros journey? James wasn't really on a heros journey. It was more of a kill stuff with a stick journey.


lol


I hope that was a joke.

If it wasn't, I can ask you, do you skip all the story progression parts?
If you have seriously played the game without skipping cutscenes and reading/listening the lines well, you cannot say either of those "journeys". James wasn't there to kill stuff. He was there to find Mary. Nothing else. Either you made a great joke or I'm taking it seriously :P

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 27 Sep 2005
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The hero's journey does indeed fit with Silent Hill (Everyone of them actualy). The problem being that The Hero's journey is almost so vague that it can really be applied to anything, like my journey to get a sandwhich this morning.

J.C. had some good points in "Hero with a Thousand Faces" (if you've read it), but one of his greatest points was the universiality of his theory. It applies to everything. So it's a good thing that his theory wasen't purely based off of applying it to life because it would have been like saying all living creatures are living. Instead he focused more on making his book a comparitive of the similarities of the Hero's Journey story in each culture, from Beowolf to Star Wars (which he actualy helped George Lucas put together...at least the first three which in fact is why the three newer ones lack the same flare.)

Anyway, I've said my piece. I wouldn't risk my grade, unless you have an understanding teacher who relishes in new, abstract ideas.


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 Post subject:

dictionary.com wrote:
Narrative:
A narrated account; a story.
The art, technique, or process of narrating.


The fact that you physically control it's pace and branches doesn't change the fact that it's a story - that's just mechanics. I'm not sure how anyone can reasonably argue that it's not a narrative. Probably they assume it's like, Mario Bros. or something.

If you lay out a very thorough and backed-up argument (citations to the many, many theories abound out here on ye olde 'net), I wouldn't think it's a very great risk at all. In the same way that your Hero's Journey follows a pretty clear story arc, so does SH. Hell you can almost draw straight lines from each plot point to the other.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: ok lets do this...
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2004
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eggwhite wrote:
this heros journey lark goes like so:

the hero is called to action
there is a possible refusal of the call
the hero faces lots of little trails
he faces a godess
he faces atonement with the father
and lo and behold he comes through/ dies and is in some way a bit of a hero
for this he either gets to live/ bring some sort of prize or justice home/ be a master of two worlds


...yeah but James is really more of an anti-hero. He's called to action...sure... the letter calls him. Refusal? There's a slight questioning in the beginning...and then of course there's his refusal to remember the truth. Little trials? Yeah, many. He faces a Godess? Nay. No godesses here, friend.

All theories put aside, I still wouldn't put James up as a hero. He doesn't save anything...in fact...he doesn't accomplish much of anything. He forgot he did something within the recent past, and he faced many many trials to remember it. That's about it. There's no saving the day, there's no prize, there's no heroism. James is mearly a protagonist, by no means a hero.

And the last one... that depends on the ending you get. He might not get to live at all! Bwahahahaha!

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 Post subject:

He saves his soul, perhaps. Atoned. (Yes, there are endings where that doesn't really happen, but you catch my drift.) Anti-heroes still count I would think.

But really the point I suspect is not necessarily to draw straight lines (tho I'd still argue that you could), but to draw parallels that illustrate that the story arc is just as complex and plot driven as any novel. It doesn't really matter which path you take in the game, the parallel remains (whether immediate and applied, or theoretically with some moderate linguistic gymnastics).


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 16 Dec 2005
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I wrote paper for a business mangement class using Dungeons and Dragons to demonstrate teamwork and I almost got a 100 on it!!! So don't let them discourge you. 8)

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