Lisa Garland: Nothing To See Here (Unmarked Spoilers Within)

Truck drivin' Travis detours into Silent Hill. Tree Top Tall & Wall-to-Wall, Good Buddy.

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The Adversary
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Post by The Adversary »

If you've obtained the Bad ending of Silent Hill: Origins you'll understand those photographs a little more: They don't really pertain to the other characters of the series.
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Jezebel in Hell
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Post by Jezebel in Hell »

David01 wrote:... the reason why she snapped at Travis.. about his mother...
Perhaps I missed something, but I found it strange that Lisa responded in such an abrasive way to Travis regarding his mother in the Sanitarium. The way she spoke to him, to me, implied that she had some sort of personal involvement. Sure, she had access to all of the paperwork and memos that lead Travis to the details relevant to his mother, but why would she care?

In the theater, Lisa says that the women in her family had a tradition of nursing, citing this as the reason for choosing a medical career as opposed to acting. Perhaps Lisa's mother was employed at the Sanitarium and cared for Helen, thus explaining prior knowledge of Travis and his family history. After all, as Krysta stated--
Krysta wrote:...Travis, he surely wasn't stranger in Silent Hill town. His familly must have become misfamous after the motel ruckus


That is neither here nor there and just a speculation. Logic would suggest that Lisa's purpose was just to mislead Travis. She attempted to distract him with bits of his past, diverting his attention away from the whole Alessa nonsense and back onto himself. There is a memo from Dahlia that says "Don't worry about Grady. He is still running around town chasing after ghosts."
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Post by Droo »

I believe I have uncovered the significance behind Lisa's role in Origins.

When we first meet Lisa at Alchemilla, she seems deeply concerned about Travis and claims no deep knowledge of Alessa's case, and seems genuine about it. She mentions that Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium and that she'll "get in trouble" if she's late.

Lisa likely has no idea why Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium. She likely assumed it was to find a deserted place to sell her drugs. However, I believe that once she got there, Kaufmann showed her detailed patient files on Helen Grady and explained her situation to Lisa. Kaufmann had already met Travis, and knew that he had saved Alessa, and could potentially pose a major threat to The Order's plans. So, he turned Lisa against Travis, and charged Lisa with two jobs: keep Travis away from Alchemilla, and try to get him to leave town.

So, when Lisa meets Travis at the Sanitarium, she now views him as a person who abandoned his sick mother and left town. It's unlikely that she knows about Richard. She also says it sad how "she just sits there". The use of the present tense suggests that Helen Grady may still be alive and confined at the Sanitarium. She snaps at Travis, floored by the fact that, to her, Travis is right there and should be able to see and recognize his mother, but seems more concerned with a girl who has no relation to him and who died last night. She snaps at him, and then leaves, dropped an extra ticket to Artaud behind her on the way out to lead Travis to the theatre, rather than return to Alchemilla.

When Travis meets her at the theatre, she is sitting by herself, ruminating over her life and how different it is from the one she wants to live. With Kaufmann's request to Lisa to get Travis to leave, she comes on to him, trying to use her sexuality to manipulate Travis. This tactic would make sense to a young girl who has been sexually abused by someone in a position of power for however long this has been going on. She asks him to run away wth her, not only accomplishing the request to get rid of Travis but also perhaps as a way out for herself. When Travis refuses, and continues to single-mindedly pursue Alessa, Lisa gives up, shrugs the come-on off as a joke and leaves to meet Kaufmann at the Riverside Motel.

At the Riverside Motel, she reports to Kaufmann that she failed to get Travis to leave. In retribution for her failure, Kaufmann violently rapes her in the Rose Room. Who should show up immediately after, but Travis? Lisa snarls a hostile greeting to Travis, who she blames for the rape as well as for not fulfilling her opportunity to escape. She leaves, and as far as her story with Travis is concerned it is done. Travis goes on to complete the Flauros, frees Alessa's power, and allows her to transform the town into the proper version of the Otherworld and leads Travis to the Green Lion Antique Shop. Travis seals The Lord Of Serpents And Reeds into the Flauros, and splits Alessa's soul into two. Alessa's soul self takes Cheryl to the side of the road for Harry and Mrs. Mason to find, and Travis leaves.

Meanwhile, Kaufmann and Dahlia discuss their new tactic of the summoning spell. They know it will take time, and Alessa's physical self must still be cared for. Kaufmann decides that Lisa, who is already under his thumb, is the perfect candidate for caring for Alessa, as she is not legally a full employee of Alchemilla. There is also the fact that she had many interactions with Travis, who Kaufmann knows Alessa was in alot of contact with as well. Presumably, this means that Alessa is already somewhat aware of Lisa as a person. I imagine Lisa's coerced caretaking of Alessa likely began the day after Travis and the Masons left Silent Hill.

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Post by Lostkitsune »

Drewfus wrote:I believe I have uncovered the significance behind Lisa's role in Origins.

When we first meet Lisa at Alchemilla, she seems deeply concerned about Travis and claims no deep knowledge of Alessa's case, and seems genuine about it. She mentions that Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium and that she'll "get in trouble" if she's late.

Lisa likely has no idea why Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium. She likely assumed it was to find a deserted place to sell her drugs. However, I believe that once she got there, Kaufmann showed her detailed patient files on Helen Grady and explained her situation to Lisa. Kaufmann had already met Travis, and knew that he had saved Alessa, and could potentially pose a major threat to The Order's plans. So, he turned Lisa against Travis, and charged Lisa with two jobs: keep Travis away from Alchemilla, and try to get him to leave town.

So, when Lisa meets Travis at the Sanitarium, she now views him as a person who abandoned his sick mother and left town. It's unlikely that she knows about Richard. She also says it sad how "she just sits there". The use of the present tense suggests that Helen Grady may still be alive and confined at the Sanitarium. She snaps at Travis, floored by the fact that, to her, Travis is right there and should be able to see and recognize his mother, but seems more concerned with a girl who has no relation to him and who died last night. She snaps at him, and then leaves, dropped an extra ticket to Artaud behind her on the way out to lead Travis to the theatre, rather than return to Alchemilla.

When Travis meets her at the theatre, she is sitting by herself, ruminating over her life and how different it is from the one she wants to live. With Kaufmann's request to Lisa to get Travis to leave, she comes on to him, trying to use her sexuality to manipulate Travis. This tactic would make sense to a young girl who has been sexually abused by someone in a position of power for however long this has been going on. She asks him to run away wth her, not only accomplishing the request to get rid of Travis but also perhaps as a way out for herself. When Travis refuses, and continues to single-mindedly pursue Alessa, Lisa gives up, shrugs the come-on off as a joke and leaves to meet Kaufmann at the Riverside Motel.

At the Riverside Motel, she reports to Kaufmann that she failed to get Travis to leave. In retribution for her failure, Kaufmann violently rapes her in the Rose Room. Who should show up immediately after, but Travis? Lisa snarls a hostile greeting to Travis, who she blames for the rape as well as for not fulfilling her opportunity to escape. She leaves, and as far as her story with Travis is concerned it is done. Travis goes on to complete the Flauros, frees Alessa's power, and allows her to transform the town into the proper version of the Otherworld and leads Travis to the Green Lion Antique Shop. Travis seals The Lord Of Serpents And Reeds into the Flauros, and splits Alessa's soul into two. Alessa's soul self takes Cheryl to the side of the road for Harry and Mrs. Mason to find, and Travis leaves.

Meanwhile, Kaufmann and Dahlia discuss their new tactic of the summoning spell. They know it will take time, and Alessa's physical self must still be cared for. Kaufmann decides that Lisa, who is already under his thumb, is the perfect candidate for caring for Alessa, as she is not legally a full employee of Alchemilla. There is also the fact that she had many interactions with Travis, who Kaufmann knows Alessa was in alot of contact with as well. Presumably, this means that Alessa is already somewhat aware of Lisa as a person. I imagine Lisa's coerced caretaking of Alessa likely began the day after Travis and the Masons left Silent Hill.

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Post by The Adversary »

>Kaufmann violently rapes her in the Rose Room.
Lisa seems to be enjoying it, judging from the incessant giggling and moaning. Rape typically involves, you know, screams and yells.

>Travis seals The Lord Of Serpents And Reeds into the Flauros
Alessa conjures the demon Flauros--the final boss; god is not present in Silent Hill: Origins.

Other than those two points, it works.
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Post by Jezebel in Hell »

Drewfus wrote:Kaufmann had already met Travis, and knew that he had saved Alessa, and could potentially pose a major threat to The Order's plans.
Right. As I had said before, that would explain the memo left by Dahlia. Lisa was to pose as a distraction, to advert his attention away from interfering with Alessa.
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Post by David01 »

Makes perfect sense to me. It's just unfortunate that we didn't actually get to see any shred of what happened to Lisa, in the actual game. but Drewfus I have to hand it to you .. that definately makes sense.. and it puts to rest the on going debate of what and why it happened.. at least the Lisa portion of it. :D
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Post by Droo »

The giggling/moaning don't seem to fit with the haunted, angry look on Lisa's face when Travis sees her in the Rose Room, though. Perhaps her affect is messed up due to her recent consumption of PVT. I am still completely unconvinced that Lisa's sexual relationship with Kaufmann was anything less than abusive.
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Post by The Adversary »

>the haunted, angry look on Lisa's face when Travis sees her in the Rose Room
Embarrassment.

You really can't argue that she wasn't enjoying it, regardless of how "unconvinced" you are, because of her reactions during their escapade.
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Post by Krysta »

Drewfus wrote: She asks him to run away wth her, not only accomplishing the request to get rid of Travis but also perhaps as a way out for herself
that wasn't any concrete request but a 'sample' of her acting skills. She didn't mean that and she surley wasn't planning to leave with Travis. I think the case with Lisa is more simple than it seems. She was a young PTV drug addict. Kauffman, main drug dealer/boss in SH, simply took advantage of a poor girl, who has gone bad. And the 'love scene' in motel surely wasn't a rape. She was giving her head for yet another freebie dope, I really can't imagine Lisa being a spy
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Post by The Adversary »

And Drew, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the attitudes of post-rape victims, but I can assure you that none of them would be giggling and enjoying themselves during the act. I personally know a few rape victims, and merely mentioning it around them is enough to set their hearts a-race; to suggest that they'd be giggling during it would sicken them. That Lisa was high on PTV at the time of their rendezvous is irrelevant: regardless of what a victim's judgment is impaired with--be it narcotics or alcohol--it's rape, irrefutably.

Now then (oxymoron), Lisa's attitude and reactions during the encounter is not that of a rape victim. Tomorrow I'll even ask my recently-graduated Psychology Major roommate who specializes in women's social work and volunteers at rape awareness/prevention centers what she thinks of Lisa's moaning and joyous attitude.
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Post by Droo »

I will concede that the young impressionable drug addict that Lisa was probably entered into a consensual sexual relationship with Kaufmann, probably for the thrill as well as the free drugs it would score her.

I think we can safely agree that as time goes on, though, that Lisa's attitude to Kaufmann dramatically changes, as we see the heated argument between the two of them in the intro to SH1, as well as Lisa's final revenge against Kaufmann in the end of SH1.
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Post by BloodRedLion »

There's such a thing as sex that is both consensual and abusive.
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Post by Jezebel in Hell »

BloodRedLion wrote:There's such a thing as sex that is both consensual and abusive.
Rape is, by definition, is nonconsensual.
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Post by King Crimson »

Rape is, by definition, is nonconsensual.
bloodredloin said nothing about rape. the only reason it is rape is because Lisa is like 15.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Age has nothing to do with whether or not something is rape.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, how come no one on this forum knows what the hell rape is? Seriously.
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Post by The Adversary »

Well, depending on geography, sex under the age of eighteen (in some places sixteen; in others fourteen) is considered statutory rape. But that's not what we're discussing here. We've already established that Lisa was not raped by definition, save for statutorily--which isn't the same thing because in this instance it was consensual.
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Post by Krysta »

that's right let's just ditch those discussions about the rape and let's better start getting use to the thought that Lisa was bad, dirty girl(prehaps lost and naive would be a better term). Or at least Climax decided to present her this way. Well we gotta accept this, though frankly I don't like it either that Lisa turned out to be first slut of Silent Hill
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Post by BloodRedLion »

She's not a slut, either. I think drewfus gave a perfectly good explanation of and rationale for her actions. "Lisa is a slut" was not included in it.
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Post by therednurse »

Lisa being under the influence of drugs technically makes it rape for the same reason her being underage does. Both mean she is not (in the legal sense) capable of giving consent.
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