Lisa Garland: Nothing To See Here (Unmarked Spoilers Within)

Post by **therednurse** » 26 Nov 2007

Chloe Smith wrote:I thought Origins was 6 years before Silent Hill 1. I might be off by a year. Whatever. ANYWAY. You would know that you're doing White Claudia if you were buying White Claudia. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Of course drugs cloud judgement, but there is still a choice. It's called quitting. People who smoke quit every day. So that isn't even close to a legitimate excuse.

Of course she knows that she is taking PTV *while* she is taking PTV. Unless her perceptive abilities are seriously being called into question. However, she probably isn't taking into consideration how it might affect the rest of her life, if she could even possibly know that. That is the very definition of naivete. Lacking life experience. Not surprising for a 16-17 year old.

Post by **King Crimson** » 26 Nov 2007

"Hmm. I wonder what will happen if I smoke this white stuff?"

You're the only one looking naive here, Spoon.

Was that relly necasary Aura. Either way thats pretty funny because thats not what I was saying. I was showing Chloe Smith that we dont understand what white claudia truly does to the brain because it is a fictional drug. Our understanding of the drug is based off of assumtions not personal use.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

bring more knives wrote:Exactly, it is hard. I won't go into that story with me, it's not important. Like I said, wasn't it because without the drugs, she saw the otherworld? Like, the effect of the withdrawl made her go loopy, and.. I dunno, I'm really trying to remember what the memo's said with her describing what she felt..

I didn't say anything bad about girls or boys, for the record. Mainly nothing was mentioned because nobody in this series was a male drug addict. Well, Kauffman was probably on drugs, hell maybe he was a teenage prostitute I dunno.

The reason that Lisa saw the otherworld is because she was a ghost. Ghosts can't die until they KNOW they're dead. Thus, the answer resided in the basement; where she went to find this horrifying realization.

The memo's say hardly anything about her. If you're referring to the diary, then she refrences her wanting to quit, needing drugs, and things of that nature. Nothing made Lisa "loopy" if you mean die, then yes. She was pretty loopy.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 27 Nov 2007

The reason that Lisa saw the otherworld is because she was a ghost. Ghosts can't die until they KNOW they're dead. Thus, the answer resided in the basement; where she went to find this horrifying realization.

It's equally possible that SH1 Lisa was a Maria-like manifestation.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

Ghost OR manifistation. Pick or choose.

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

Chloe Smith wrote:
bring more knives wrote:Exactly, it is hard. I won't go into that story with me, it's not important. Like I said, wasn't it because without the drugs, she saw the otherworld? Like, the effect of the withdrawl made her go loopy, and.. I dunno, I'm really trying to remember what the memo's said with her describing what she felt..
The memo's say hardly anything about her. If you're referring to the diary, then she refrences her wanting to quit, needing drugs, and things of that nature. Nothing made Lisa "loopy" if you mean die, then yes. she was pretty loopy.

In her diary she talks about seeing insects filling her room to spite her, blood and pus running from the faucet, and needing the drug. Do you even know what loopy means? Although this posts makes no sense whether or not you do know the meaning of the word.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

Thats basic in Silent Hill. Cybil sees a pyramid head and a bunch of other monsters, does that make her "loopy"? Loopy, by definition means mentally irregular are you stating that everyone in Silent Hill that has encountered a unusual occurence is mentally irregular?

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

Actually it means crazy or confused, usually due to the influence of drugs. So the reference was specifically related to her drug use, but you can keep arguing your point if you wish.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

Well, I see we come from two different view points. Both are possible, correct? So, its all up for interpretation on what to believe. There is no right or wrong answer, if you would have noticed.

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

Right...
I'm still trying to figure out what your viewpoints are. First you come to Lisa's defense in regards to her drug use, and fight anyone that's calling her dirty because of it. Then you argue with someone who says she was probably a bit naive (at age 16), and say there's no way that's possible because everyone that takes drugs knows full well the longterm consequences of their actions even at age 16. Which takes away the naivete, and instead implies that she's either stupid for choosing to take the drugs anyway or has no concern with the effects of her drug use (on herself and others).
Okay.
And then earlier you argued that Lisa was seeing elements of the otherworld because she was a ghost. So if you think I was implying Cybil was "loopy" because she sees monsters (even though Cybil had nothing to do with my argument at all), then you're implying that she's dead, and so is Harry, and James, and Henry, etc...

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

Obviously something got miscontrued.

I like Lisa. Yes, I do. Now that we have that in the open, let me rephrase on what I was saying the entire time.

Prior to your entrance, I was discussing with other members about the sex that Lisa had with Kaufmann. We weren't even onto the subject of diaries, apparations, ghosts or anything of that nature yet.

As for her naive-ness or whatever you want to wittingly call it. Lisa, from what I saw in Origins was someone who slept with a disgusting old man for money. That event, believe it or not had intent. Lisa intended to get drugs. Lisa intended to do whatever necissary for the drugs. Lisa did NOT lack knowledge, she knew what she was doing. I do think that Lisa made a stupid choice by taking the drugs. It's understandable that someone can make a mistake, regardless of age.

And when all other members fled, you entered and started a entirely new conversation with me. Correct?

Lisa was seeing elements of the otherworld because she was in Silent Hill. Obviously, everyone that goes there, something weird is bound to happen. You implied that Lisa was loopy for seeing these things (blood from the sink, etc), but did every character, not just Cybil face odd occurences in Silent Hill? So what makes Lisa's experience with the sink any different from everyone elses? Nothing. Thats what.

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

Uhm, yes. Lisa slept with Kaufman with the intent of getting her fix. I was never arguing about what her intent was, or whether she knew what she was doing while she was doing it (in fact I said it was impossible to argue the opposite unless she's pretty much a vegetable). However that has nothing to do with whether or not she was naive. You seem to just have a problem with this word, a problem I don't understand. You just said it was understandable that she would make a mistake, saying she's naive is saying she lacked the life experience/knowledge to help her make a good decision in the longterm. She was young so yes, she probably lacked life experience, so yes, she was naive.
And Lisa's experience with the sink is different from the experience of a Harry or a Henry because it was specifically related to her drug use. And she was loopy (confused due to the influence of drugs.intoxication), another word you seem to have a problem with. Around the time of her diary entries, she was seeing things because of her drug use.
But in your opinion she was seeing things because she was dead, or because she was in Silent Hill. Which is it? You've stated both in this thread.

Post by **King Crimson** » 27 Nov 2007

As for her naive-ness or whatever you want to wittingly call it. Lisa, from what I saw in Origins was someone who slept with a disgusting old man for money. That event, believe it or not had intent. Lisa intended to get drugs. Lisa intended to do whatever necissary for the drugs. Lisa did NOT lack knowledge, she knew what she was doing. I do think that Lisa made a stupid choice by taking the drugs.

Alright Im going to make this very clear. 16 year old are niave. however you want to look at it. its the truth. Now a 16 year old on drugs is extremly young, niave and lost. They are still growing into an adult and being on hard drugs[such as hullucigens] can seriuosly fuck up the process.

It's understandable that someone can make a mistake, regardless of age.

But being young and lacking experience effected her choices. why do you think kaufmen picked someone that young and lacking medical experience. because he needed someone with poor judgement. someone lacking experience. and most important someone young and niave. As she grew older she realized what she was doing was wrong and wanted out. If she had a second chance and could go back and change it you know she would.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

therednurse wrote:Uhm, yes. Lisa slept with Kaufman with the intent of getting her fix. I was never arguing about what her intent was, or whether she knew what she was doing while she was doing it (in fact I said it was impossible to argue the opposite unless she's pretty much a vegetable). However that has nothing to do with whether or not she was naive. You seem to just have a problem with this word, a problem I don't understand. You just said it was understandable that she would make a mistake, saying she's naive is saying she lacked the life experience/knowledge to help her make a good decision in the longterm. She was young so yes, she probably lacked life experience, so yes, she was naive.
And Lisa's experience with the sink is different from the experience of a Harry or a Henry because it was specifically related to her drug use. And she was loopy (confused due to the influence of drugs.intoxication), another word you seem to have a problem with. Around the time of her diary entries, she was seeing things because of her drug use.
But in your opinion she was seeing things because she was dead, or because she was in Silent Hill. Which is it? You've stated both in this thread.

You've said that like nine times. Alright. My point of view in terms of her status, is that during the game, she wasn't dead. When she started bleeding, I think you can make the inference that she isn't alive.

As for the whole drug thing I think you're missing, Lisa could be seeing those things for either reason. Ever consider that? Keep a open mind and try to see things my way. I don't think that the drugs did that to Lisa. I'm sure they did something to Lisa but not the blood, and insects. The things she talked about sound very close to things that happen often in Silent Hill. It's not too hard to think that Lisa could be having those effects from drugs or Silent Hill's otherworld. That is what I've been trying to say for the last hour.

Post by **King Crimson** » 27 Nov 2007

The reason that Lisa saw the otherworld is because she was a ghost. Ghosts can't die until they KNOW they're dead. Thus, the answer resided in the basement; where she went to find this horrifying realization.

nitpicking-even though she realized she was dead she her ghost didnt truly die. she was bound to haunt that place as a ghost. this is indicated in the silent hill 1 spoilers>

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

Good+ ending for silent hill 1.

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

I'll open my mind to your point of view, I just have to forget what the words naive and loopy mean. And figure that Lisa isn't dead, and she isn't alive, so...
Give me a sec...

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

When I say clarify, I mean actually read what I wrote.

Disregard everything I said before if that helps you at all. But actually read the last post I made. Thats my opinion.

Post by **therednurse** » 27 Nov 2007

I did read what you wrote in your last post. You said that Lisa wasn't dead and she wasn't alive.
If you want to believe that Lisa's drug use had nothing to do with the things she was seeing at the time she wrote her diary, then that's fine. I don't agree.

Post by **Chloe Smith** » 27 Nov 2007

What I said was that Lisa didn't "die" until she went down into the basement. She realized she was a monster and transformed. Can you not understand that?

Post by **Adrasteia** » 27 Nov 2007

Chloe Smith wrote:Thats basic in Silent Hill. Cybil sees a pyramid head and a bunch of other monsters, does that make her "loopy"? Loopy, by definition means mentally irregular are you stating that everyone in Silent Hill that has encountered a unusual occurence is mentally irregular?

Um. Cybil is in SH1. Pyramid Head is in SH2. No cross-game pollination.