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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 11 Jul 2010
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David01 wrote:
First of all, we all know that Origins takes place at least 7 years before Origins.


huh?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
I think it's very obvious David meant to say Silent Hill 1 a second time. :|

You'd bump a thread after a year just to ask huh? ...

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
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Last seen at: Birmingham
Anyone notice that Lisa looks the same in SHO and SH1?


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
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What I don't get is why people think she's such an angel (Apart from the line in Silent Hill 3 where Heather describes her as "heavenly to me [Heather] in that sickroom")? From what I've seen in the games (this is my own observations):

1) Lisa gets very emotional over other people's well-being. But she's a nurse, it would be worrying to see her showing absolutely no emotion whatsoever over other people's health.

2) Lisa is very concerned with her own well-being over other peoples (her failure at getting Alessa out of the situation the girl is in - even if she didn't know about The Order, the fact that she's being bribed with illegal drugs to take care of a burn victim whose been stuffed in a basement sickroom should be enough to cause alarm bells to ring. If she really cared about Alessa, she'd have gone to the police with some cold, hard evidence against Kaufmann and Dahlia, stopping both Cult and PTV distribution dead (going by the idea that with Dahlia out of the picture, the Cult would start tearing itself apart looking for a new leader). Instead, Lisa cares more for her fix. Also, in the scene where he first meets Harry, when she says, "Let me help you." It could be the camera angle, but I'm sure I saw Lisa turn her head and step backwards. Not what I'd call the reactions of someone who wants to help, more the reactions of someone who wants to cut and run.)

3) Lisa is incredibly naive. First, there's her relationship with Kaufmann. Then, in the opening of Silent Hill, Lisa is shown having a heated argument with him. Considering she should know what he's capable of, having a public argument with him was a pretty dumb move. Practically asking for Kaufmann to silence her.

4) Lisa is dependant on drugs. White Claudia seems to have been characterised as a hallucinogenic, which in my mind explains the visions of bugs and blood flowing from her faucet that she wrote about in her diary. Yet the next line after this lovely description is, "Need drug".

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"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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Some people thinks she's an "angel" because of the whole drug deal. Like, it wasn't even her fault that's she's a junkie. Others believe that she's "cute" and all because of that whole stupid crying.

Talk with a Lisa fanboy/fangirl. 90% of 'em hates Kauffman. You and I both know why. . .

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
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Mephisto wrote:
Some people thinks she's an "angel" because of the whole drug deal. Like, it wasn't even her fault that's she's a junkie. Others believe that she's "cute" and all because of that whole stupid crying.

Talk with a Lisa fanboy/fangirl. 90% of 'em hates Kauffman. You and I both know why. . .

That's another thing which confuses me. Okay, so Kaufmann provided the drugs, and got her hooked on them, but somewhere along the line, she must have taken the choice to use them herself. Unless Kaufmann was ramming White Claudia down her throat or shooting her up with needles himself or giving her it in pill form saying "Got a headache, this is a paracetamol. It's good for you."

In short, Kaufmann may have given her the pills, but unless he was shoving them down her throat, Lisa was the one who took the drugs in the first place, so in my mind, she shares a lot of the blame for her addiction.

[Edited to fix tags]

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The above post, unless otherwise stated, should only be taken as personal opinion.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up ... wake up and smell the ashes."
"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
Well, the thing is, that some scenes with Lisa can point out to her being high on drugs. I can understand that being at the theater and almost fucking Travis, then jokingly laughing, sounds a lot like one who is on drugs. Also, the developers didn't really...read in much with the game. After all, it was just a "prequel that we didn't really want", as some on this forum state. Having a bland character in the story just adds to that.

The promotional images of Silent Hill: Origins...I believe that they were for the Americanized one, not the European later developed. Keep in mind that the stories for the first beta might have been different, much like the gameplay. Maybe Lisa had a different role there? Also, other promotional images of Silent Hill Origins American showed a beating heart/organism kind of otherworld, with spikes and chains emerging from the walls. Just to point out how the early development and the final release are different.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>If she really cared about Alessa, she'd have gone to the police<
What, exactly, would a young schizophrenic woman, addicted to a powerful hallucinogen, who's written about the blood and insects she sees tell the police to get them to take her even moderately seriously?

Lisa's in no condition to do much of anything, let alone talk to the police about a 14-year-old girl kept alive via præternatural means who's locked away in the basement of the hospital.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
The Adversary wrote:
>If she really cared about Alessa, she'd have gone to the police<
What, exactly, would a young schizophrenic woman, addicted to a powerful hallucinogen, who's written about the blood and insects she sees tell the police to get them to take her even moderately seriously?

Lisa's in no condition to do much of anything, let alone talk to the police about a 14-year-old girl kept alive via præternatural means who's locked away in the basement of the hospital.


I'm not sure about schizophrenic (I've never read any of the guides like Lost Memories, so if it's there, I apologise) but my point is that if Lisa actually cared about Alessa, then she could have tried to kick the addiction before it got to the stage where she started seeing blood and insects. If she kicked the addiction, she might have been able to get something, anything to the police. Admittedly, Kaufmann could try to weasel his way out of it (What? A Patient in the basement? This is a hospital, we have patients everywhere!) but surely with the drugs not clouding her mind, Lisa would have been able to come up with something that would stick, such as a photograph of Alessa next to a current newspaper with the date displayed prominently on it, thus proving that Alessa's recorded death is false.

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The above post, unless otherwise stated, should only be taken as personal opinion.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up ... wake up and smell the ashes."
"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
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We have no evidence that Lisa cared for Alessa emotionally. Sure, she was worried about how she was staying alive. But Alessa manifested Lisa because Alessa liked Lisa, maybe not the other way around. Also, Kaufman did threaten her with no more drugs if she told. It was an addiction.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>I'm not sure about schizophrenic<
Silent Hill 2 Official Perfect Capture & World Guide

Anyway, I think you're overestimating Lisa's abilities. W/out help, you can't just cure yourself from an addiction.

>Alessa manifested Lisa because Alessa liked Lisa<
Alessa didn't manifest Lisa. Alessa didn't consciously manifest anything. Silent Hill tapped into her fears and emotions and created the creatures. And it certainly didn't create Lisa.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Last edited by The Adversary on 29 Jul 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
^Admittedly, I'm probably not thinking too straight on that point (too much faith in the power of someone to knock off the drugs) Thanks simeonalo, having to explain my viewpoints to someone helps to straighten out what I think.

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The above post, unless otherwise stated, should only be taken as personal opinion.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up ... wake up and smell the ashes."
"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
The Adversary wrote:
>Alessa manifested Lisa because Alessa liked Lisa<
Alessa didn't manifest Lisa. Alessa didn't consciously manifest anything. Silent Hill tapped into her fears and emotions and created the creatures. And it certainly didn't create Lisa.


sure, Alessa didn't manifest Lisa on purpose. But you can't deny that she wasn't there for a reason. Important people in Alessa's life were included in the otherside. You can also point out that Lisa was there to stop Harry, as evident by her constant begging of her to have him stay and other similar reasons like that.

Also, if you look at this theory, it points out that Lisa is the holder/equivalent of the Seal Of Metatron, the Virun VII Crest.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
Lisa, like the rest of Alchemilla Hospital's staff, was drawn into the [otherside], where she, like the rest of the staff, was parasitized.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
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One could argue that there's more between the lines with Lisa in the game. She plays a more important role that just being drawn the otherworld.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
That's true: She offers Harry valuable insight he wouldn't otherwise receive. However, Lisa's parasitization has been argued before, and no one has successfully managed to as far as I'm concerned. Other arguments never add up.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
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The Adversary wrote:
>I'm not sure about schizophrenic<
Silent Hill 2 Official Perfect Capture & World Guide

Anyway, I think you're overestimating Lisa's abilities. W/out help, you can't just cure yourself from an addiction.

>Alessa manifested Lisa because Alessa liked Lisa<
Alessa didn't manifest Lisa. Alessa didn't consciously manifest anything. Silent Hill tapped into her fears and emotions and created the creatures. And it certainly didn't create Lisa.

can you post up a thread that fully translates this guidebook as most of us cant reaqd japanese or has anyone to do that for us? we would greatly appreciate that :D

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
she'd have gone to the police with some cold, hard evidence against Kaufmann and Dahlia, stopping both Cult and PTV distribution dead (going by the idea that with Dahlia out of the picture, the Cult would start tearing itself apart looking for a new leader).


Minor nitpick: Dahlia wasn't the cult's leader, she was a fringe lunatic with only a handful of followers.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
^If Dahlia wasn't the cult's leader, who was? How big was the cult anyway? How far did it's influence go? This is one of the reasons I like Silent Hill so much, when I think too much on its story, I end up with more questions than I started out with.

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The above post, unless otherwise stated, should only be taken as personal opinion.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up ... wake up and smell the ashes."
"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
There are two possibilities regarding the Order, either 1) The Order is small and 100% crazy, or 2) The Order is large (with respect to SH's population) with a fringe of crazy. The reason the Order can't be large and dominantly crazy is because crazy attracts attention, especially when it comes to kidnapping and immolating little girls and hoping God comes out. One of those girls is bound to be blonde and then, suddenly, CNN is running an exposé, the Federal Government gets involved, and BAM, Waco. :wink:

SH3 and SH4 offered insights into the scope of the Order's organization, which has at least three internal orders (implying size), as well as the implication that most of its followers are as moderate as the average Christian (Father Vincent's taped conversation that implies Claudia's fringe status; Sharon Blake and her family as moderate, churchgoing Order members).

So, large with a fringe of crazy. Father Vincent, if anything, represents the general feelings of the average Order member inasmuch as a moderate Christian would balk at actively goading Israel into a bloody expansionist war just to force Jesus to show up (both Jesus and the Order's God have promised to return at their own convenience).

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