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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 29 May 2006
Notes left: 1096
Last seen at: Mormons HQ
Drewfus wrote:
I do agree, though, that there are enough contextual clues in SH: Origins to clearly show, to me, that the girl at the theatre was clearly Lisa.


If thats the case, if the lil girl in theater was Lisa then information about the nosebleed would be totally pointless and wouldn't lead to any other conclusions(i believe it's the key info that strenghtens the fact it was Alessa). Alessa always was avenging anyone who wanted to hurt her. Now try to convience me, in the light of given facts, that the girl was Lisa afterall. Her passion for acting is very too litle to refute 'Alessa theory'


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
Are we sure Lisa would've been fifteen at this point?

If Lisa is 23 in SH1, that doesn't necessarily mean she's 15/16 in Origins.
The Lisa in SH1 is just one of Alessa's manifestations, right? So who's to say her 'age' is correct? This could've been the age she was when she died, but it also could be the age she was when she first met Alessa, or anywhere in between.

Where is her age stated, anyway? Is it in SH1s manual, or something?
The fact that she's not 'real' means she doesn't really have an age anyway - it's just one of those things they put down on her Bio. It'd be pretty strange if it said Age: Hours Old.

Does that idea make sense?

I think that the Lisa-in-the-Theatre idea is a little too...insignificant (?) to be true. The Alessa idea links with the Caliban monster (why would a school-skipping 16 year old be afraid of a costume? Why would a Caliban monster exist if Alessa hadn't seen it?), the nosebleed.
I assume we're all agreed that Caliban is one of Alessas manifestations, rather than one of Travis'?


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
Krysta wrote:
Krist. wrote:
BUT STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. PEOPLE. THIS IS ABOUT LISA. Let's please all talk about Lisa! This goes for mods, too, okay?



>she kicks Caliban after the boss fight - it was her personal
>guy who got her scared had an unexpected nosebleed (dressed as Caliban, apparently he was pleased that she got scared because it meant the costume really was well made)


The guy who gets a nosebleed doesn't have the role of the Caliban.. He plays Prospero =/

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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11999
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
An alternative Lisa/Prospero theory:

Prospero's actor did not get a nosebleed because of any supernatural influence, but because he was on hard drugs. This could be how Lisa first encountered Kaufmann; during one of his "transactions".

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A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
Drewfus wrote:
An alternative Lisa/Prospero theory:

Prospero's actor did not get a nosebleed because of any supernatural influence, but because he was on hard drugs. This could be how Lisa first encountered Kaufmann; during one of his "transactions".


That strikes me as a bit of a leap.
I think the creators intention was either:

Nosebleed = ...eww, Nosebleed
or
Nosebleed = Alessa

I don't think it goes beyond that/has any more depth to it.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
drakan90 wrote:
Drewfus wrote:
An alternative Lisa/Prospero theory:

Prospero's actor did not get a nosebleed because of any supernatural influence, but because he was on hard drugs. This could be how Lisa first encountered Kaufmann; during one of his "transactions".


That strikes me as a bit of a leap.
I think the creators intention was either:

Nosebleed = ...eww, Nosebleed
or
Nosebleed = Alessa

I don't think it goes beyond that/has any more depth to it.


But why would Alessa give him a nosebleed.. I mean.. she wouldn't have much reason to do so.
I think it's most likely just something random..
Your first suggestion that is.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
just a dead boy wrote:
But why would Alessa give him a nosebleed.. I mean.. she wouldn't have much reason to do so.
I think it's most likely just something random..
Your first suggestion that is.


I don't think that (if it was her) it was necessarily on purpose.
She was emotionally distresed at the time, and who's to say whether she has total control of her powers? She's only six/seven after all.


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just a dead boy wrote:
drakan90 wrote:
Drewfus wrote:
An alternative Lisa/Prospero theory:

Prospero's actor did not get a nosebleed because of any supernatural influence, but because he was on hard drugs. This could be how Lisa first encountered Kaufmann; during one of his "transactions".


That strikes me as a bit of a leap.
I think the creators intention was either:

Nosebleed = ...eww, Nosebleed
or
Nosebleed = Alessa

I don't think it goes beyond that/has any more depth to it.


But why would Alessa give him a nosebleed.. I mean.. she wouldn't have much reason to do so.
I think it's most likely just something random..
Your first suggestion that is.


I believe Alessa was scared by the play and in turngave the actor a nosebleed to make him stop.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
2nd gig wrote:
just a dead boy wrote:
drakan90 wrote:
Drewfus wrote:
An alternative Lisa/Prospero theory:

Prospero's actor did not get a nosebleed because of any supernatural influence, but because he was on hard drugs. This could be how Lisa first encountered Kaufmann; during one of his "transactions".


That strikes me as a bit of a leap.
I think the creators intention was either:

Nosebleed = ...eww, Nosebleed
or
Nosebleed = Alessa

I don't think it goes beyond that/has any more depth to it.


But why would Alessa give him a nosebleed.. I mean.. she wouldn't have much reason to do so.
I think it's most likely just something random..
Your first suggestion that is.


I believe Alessa was scared by the play and in turngave the actor a nosebleed to make him stop.


If the actors were doing a complete run through from the beginning 'till the end, then Alessa wouldn't have had much reason to be scared either.
The scène on stage between Miranda and Prospero is only the 5th page of the play, with the Caliban being on page 3. If she was scared, why not put a halt on the play by then?
I'm having serious doubts about Alessa being the Girl in the theater..
I think it was Lisa..

(at least they are on page 3 and 5 in my copy of the complete works of W S being the first page of the tempest page one ofcourse)

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just a dead boy wrote:
If the actors were doing a complete run through from the beginning 'till the end, then Alessa wouldn't have had much reason to be scared either.
The scène on stage between Miranda and Prospero is only the 5th page of the play, with the Caliban being on page 3. If she was scared, why not put a halt on the play by then?
I'm having serious doubts about Alessa being the Girl in the theater..
I think it was Lisa..


I DONT think it was Lisa, Lisa has no signifcance to the Theater other then her popping up there to annoy Travis with annoying acting.

Alessa was the only person in my mind who has a significance to the Theater..


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
2nd gig wrote:
just a dead boy wrote:
If the actors were doing a complete run through from the beginning 'till the end, then Alessa wouldn't have had much reason to be scared either.
The scène on stage between Miranda and Prospero is only the 5th page of the play, with the Caliban being on page 3. If she was scared, why not put a halt on the play by then?
I'm having serious doubts about Alessa being the Girl in the theater..
I think it was Lisa..


I DONT think it was Lisa, Lisa has no signifcance to the Theater other then her popping up there to annoy Travis with annoying acting.

Alessa was the only person in my mind who has a significance to the Theater..


In what way? Alessa wouldn't be the first person in my mind to pop up when I think of the theater.. Yet neither is Lisa.. But she gets the advantage in my opinion for her wanting to be an actress in a small cutscene.. Who knows for how long she had this dream of being one?

The nosebleed could've been completely random too. I know multiple people who just get nosebleeds when they're nervous or something. (You know, with the premier of the play coming up)

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
The official site describes Caliban as:

Quote:
Someone's twisted memory of a production of Shakespeare's The Tempest


If the girl mentioned in the note, who was 'scared of the costume' was not Alessa, then that bit of information would be completely irrelevent, and would not explain the monster, or why Alessa kicks it/stamps on it.


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>> Reply to Just a dead boy

Thats just silly, your putting normal context into something that is created to be analysed in context of the story.

I believe (albiet strongly believe) Alessa had been to see the play.

Want prof?

* Memo mentions a girl had been to see a play (thats obvious)
(and now for the most convincing one)
* Once you defeat the Caliban, Alessa comes and KICKS the Caliban..

Why would she do that if she hadnt seen the play and didnt care about it..

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
drakan90 wrote:
The official site describes Caliban as:

Quote:
Someone's twisted memory of a production of Shakespeare's The Tempest


If the girl mentioned in the note, who was 'scared of the costume' was not Alessa, then that bit of information would be completely irrelevent, and would not explain the monster, or why Alessa kicks it/stamps on it.


Ofcourse, this is one thing that works against the Lisa theory.
But it could've been Travis' twisted memory too, for how far we know..
We know he was in SH before, so he could've seen the play too (Though I saw the Tempest being cancelled somewhere. But still, maybe it was cancelled after a couple of performances.

Also, I think Alessa would be way too young at the time for being interested in Theater.. she was like 6/7 at that time. I know my passion for theater didn't show untill I was around 14-15.

And if it WAS Alessa, then I'm sure the nosebleed was completely irrelevant to her.. It would be too random at that point of the play.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 14 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Old Silent Hill
My question is what significance would the theater be to either Travis or Alessa IF Alessa had not been to the theater? All the areas we visit either have something to do with Alessa or Travis, not Lisa.

And how would the Caliban exist as a creature if Alessa had not seen it?

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
spunkytexan wrote:
My question is what significance would the theater be to either Travis or Alessa IF Alessa had not been to the theater? All the areas we visit either have something to do with Alessa or Travis, not Lisa.

And how would the Caliban exist as a creature if Alessa had not seen it?


I'm not ruling Alessa out, I just have some doubts at some points..

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
WHOA how did I miss this:

Quote:
Tuesday: Strange day.
Girl snuck into theater today. Playing hooky no doubt! Took pity, let her sit and watch the run through. Very useful feedback -- terrified by Caliban (good job costume dept!)!
Seemed to dislike Prospero intensely. Proceedings brought to premature end by poor Tony getting a shocking nosebleed during Act 1, Scene 2.
Will continue tomorrow!


Seemed to dislike Prospero intensely? Then Prospero gets a nosebleed?
Come on now.
That clearly hasn't been written to imply drug abuse.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 01 May 2005
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: On a rusty Rollercoaster ride
drakan90 wrote:
WHOA how did I miss this:

Quote:
Tuesday: Strange day.
Girl snuck into theater today. Playing hooky no doubt! Took pity, let her sit and watch the run through. Very useful feedback -- terrified by Caliban (good job costume dept!)!
Seemed to dislike Prospero intensely. Proceedings brought to premature end by poor Tony getting a shocking nosebleed during Act 1, Scene 2.
Will continue tomorrow!


Seemed to dislike Prospero intensely? Then Prospero gets a nosebleed?
Come on now.
That clearly hasn't been written to imply drug abuse.


Missed that. If that's true, then it could certainly be Alessa, since Prospero was the one to get the nosebleed.

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I hope you realise your error now
You got me frustrated


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 01 Apr 2005
Notes left: 699
I'd gone back to collect arguments and counter-arguments (to do a balanced pro/con post) and that was like the first thing I came across.

Man, if one of us had just had that note on hand from the start...

It was interested while it lasted, though!


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