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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: The Bad Ending...confused
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Dec 2006
Notes left: 879
Last seen at: Edinburgh, UK
Right, So i've juust got the bad ending....does it imply that Travis was insane and murdered everone? Like his dad and other people and that the whole Origins game was a dream or hallucination because of the drugs he got injected with?
It was a pretty cool ending but im not 100% sure if i understood it


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
Notes left: 847
Last seen at: alchemilia
it looked to me like he was being tortured. I thought that was what was going on. maybe the cult got him :?: I did not perceive it as insanity.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 13 Aug 2007
Notes left: 23
mm i dunno, i get it too (someones, called it murder by butcher), it goes too quick, and well you get that end murder a lot of mosnters,

maybe the punishment of kill a lot of... things?

maybe for enjoy the killing spree?

or just other confusing end to make us think about it x3?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
To me, it looks like he was somehow captured by the Order and injected with a drug that would turn him into a monster.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 13 Aug 2007
Notes left: 23
mmm good theory, the conversion of normal human, to a not that normal one xD, i like it


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
Notes left: 452
Well, I always thought that clues in the game (the note about children being abused growing up and abusing others violently) hinted that Travis and the Butcher were one and the same, or at least that the Butcher was a projection of Travis' inner psychosis and violence. When I first got the Good Ending, I was disappointed that the Butcher component didn't fill out at the end, but with the Bad Ending, I made a private arm thrust in victory.

Basically (what I think anyway, and it's quite a stretch):

The whole game was just a delusion in Travis' head (an allusion to the Bad + Ending of SH1), a vision brought on by an injection of drugs while lying tied down in the Sanitarium. He'd been a patient ever since he was a child, and his entire life was just an aspect of his imagination and/or dreams. He was put into the Sanitarium after killing a few people at the motel the moments after his 10 hours staring at his father's body (thus the voiceover murders in the Bad Ending/the "Death By..." photos found around the motel). For all we know, he hasn't been off that bed since he was a child (which explains the straightjacket monster). All of this was done because of Travis' violent alter-ego, The Butcher. Because in his delusion he "killed" his alter-ego, he thus freed himself from his multiple personality disorder and is able to freak out when he wakes up in his bed again (think the movie "Identity").

I take that back. That was a GIANT stretch. But hey, a guy can form his own conclusions, right?

**EDIT**
I take the whole thing back, except for the fact that he's been instituationalized. Someone, The Order or even Alessa, I guess, manipulated Travis and took advantage of his repressive alter-ego, the Butcher, to get something done. Travis wandered the town, thinking that he was in some alternate dimension, when in reality, he was murdering dozens of innocent people in a drug-induced haze.

This is mostly strongly evidenced by the voiceover flashbacks in the Bad Ending.

Let us examine two in detail.

Momma voice: "What are you talking about?! I'm not your Momma! Please! NOooo!!" [butcher knife gutting someone sound]

Could this be Travis entering the female seclusion ward in Cedar Grove Sanitarium, thinking that he was confronting his mother's monster and killing her, when in fact he was murdering some other woman?

Another:

"Sir, motel's closed this season...wait. AGhhh!" [butcher knife gutting someone sound]

Could Travis have approached the closed down motel, murdered all those perhaps working there, and then proceeded to confront his inner demons in the hotel room where it all began?
All under the ruse that the "people" were "monsters"?

I think it's highly likely. Soon after the bloodbath, Travis was apprehended and strapped to a table in the Sanitarium, which is where our Bad Ending begins.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1407
Last seen at: room 302
Quote:
Could this be Travis entering the female seclusion ward in Cedar Grove Sanitarium, thinking that he was confronting his mother's monster and killing her, when in fact he was murdering some other woman?

Another:

"Sir, motel's closed this season...wait. AGhhh!" [butcher knife gutting someone sound]

Could Travis have approached the closed down motel, murdered all those perhaps working there, and then proceeded to confront his inner demons in the hotel room where it all began?

Yes, that's what I thought too. Also, if this wasn't at least partly true, why even include the Butcher character? He serves no purpose if Travis isn't guilty of anything. The stories don't even mesh otherwise, the Alessa part and the Travis part. Sure, it sucks that Travis lost his parents in the way he did, but that still doesn't explain his being drawn to Silent Hill.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 10 Apr 2006
Notes left: 916
Last seen at: Zanesville Ohio
I think it does... I mean silent hill is a place that calls to those. Who have skeletons in their closets, like James from sh2.. he killed his wife, but was in denial about it. Well Alessa and it was stated in the game.. Alessa used Travis as a pawn from the beginning.. and of course knowing how the town works.. it uses those who have tainted pasts. Just like Eddie in sh2 stated to James.. this town called you too.. We're not like other people.. Meaning they all have a dark secret.. and those who venture to silent hill are there.. for either revenge or redemption. from all the memos in the game.. it sounds to me like Travis did indeed kill innocent people.. and saw them all as monsters.. hintz why at the sanitarium.. he was seeing these things that looked like people in straight jackets.. when actually.. they were probably real people in straight jackets.. and when Travis got into the female ward on his own as a child.. he probably was traumatized by seeing his mother in the state she was.. which set Travis crazy.. Also if anyone remember the openning sequence.. the conversation between Travis and the other truck driver cuts out suddenly when they are talking bout what's troubling Travis. It all looked like a dream state to me.. I mean look at the weird visual we got when travis was talking on his CB radio in the truck.. it looked like we were actually looking into someones head.. well to me anyway it looked like I was looking into Travis's head.. but in short I believe that he was in the sanitarium the entire time.. and was only dreaming that he went to silent Hill.. because in fact he had been there as a child.. so naturally his memories of the town.. would help in Travis knowing exactly where everything is there.. also when you here "woman's voice" Nooo I'm not your momma, what are you talking about? Well it could have been that travis was perhaps sleep walking or something too.. I dunno just throwing another theory here.. perhaps in a dream like state.. he ventured into silent Hill.. being controled by Alessa.. and went into the town.. and to the sanitarium killing someone who he thought was his mother.. then to the hotel... killing someone who he thought was his father.. I agree too that the cult may have drugged Travis.. it's highly likely.. it's also highly likely that like you all said.. perhaps he was at that sanitarium all his life.. and was only dreaming all this.. I mean just the opening CB radio conversation looks to me like he's dreaming or something. Because all you see is this fleshy looking stuff with a radio line going through while he's talking to his trucker buddy.. Hell maybe travis never was a trucker.. perhaps that's all just an illusion also.. I mean it's all entirely possible.. I'll more than likely being playing through the game again.. I'm on my 4th play through.. I'll be looking at these things closely.. but again.. also going through mirrors.. another thing that leads me to believe that Travis was seeing things.. and dreaming all this shit up. I mean who in real life.. and that's where you begin the game.. well assuming that Travis is actually there.. who in real life can travel through a mirror.. I mean serisouly. Remember too when he's in the sanitarium.. He see's a doll.. and says to himself.. I'd better leave it for whoever left it.. when in reality.. or what we assume is reality.. there is no one else around in the town.. I mean all we see is the fog.. and if we all remember sh2.. when you find those notes lying on the ground.. about someone seeing monsters.. but his friend didnt see the same thing.. well it's most likely the same thing with travis.. he's in a dream like state.. walking around silent hill mostly likely killing innocent people because he believes, that he's seeing things.. and none of the stuff hes seeing is real. I dunno I'm as confused as the rest of you and I apologize for causing anymore confusion.

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The only way for evil to continue, is for good men to do nothing!!!!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Travis wandered the town, thinking that he was in some alternate dimension, when in reality, he was murdering dozens of innocent people in a drug-induced haze.


Without getting arrested by the police?

Either way, most of the monsters don't behave as humans, so unless he was killing short bus kids, I doubt they existed in reality. Added to the fact that if he was institutionalized, how would be be able to imagine an entire life as an ordinary trucker, and how would he be in Silent Hill? Furthermore, what use could the Order possibly have for him, especially since they don't seem to have been aware of him until he rescued Alessa.

Sorry, your theory doesn't hold water.

David01: Oh my god, Christ, learn paragraph structure. That's an eyesore. I'll try and dig through it anyway.

Quote:
it sounds to me like Travis did indeed kill innocent people.. and saw them all as monsters..


See above.

Quote:
I believe that he was in the sanitarium the entire time.. and was only dreaming that he went to silent Hill..


Then how did he dream of Alessa, and Lisa, and so on if he never met them?

Quote:
so naturally his memories of the town.. would help in Travis knowing exactly where everything is there..


Impossible. There was a fire that burned down several buildings, new construction, and other things that altered the architecture of the town.

Quote:
he ventured into silent Hill.. being controled by Alessa.. and went into the town.. and to the sanitarium killing someone


Alessa doesn't control people.

Quote:
I mean who in real life.. and that's where you begin the game.. well assuming that Travis is actually there.. who in real life can travel through a mirror.. I mean serisouly.


He's in the Otherworld, genius.

Quote:
Remember too when he's in the sanitarium.. He see's a doll.. and says to himself.. I'd better leave it for whoever left it.. when in reality.. or what we assume is reality.. there is no one else around in the town.. I mean all we see is the fog.. and if we all remember sh2.. when you find those notes lying on the ground.. about someone seeing monsters.. but his friend didnt see the same thing.. well it's most likely the same thing with travis.. he's in a dream like state.. walking around silent hill mostly likely killing innocent people because he believes, that he's seeing things.. and none of the stuff hes seeing is real.


Silent Hill doesn't work that way, it actually pulls people into another dimension. Adult Travis saved Alessa, then when he blacked out, he reawakened in the Otherworld.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
Notes left: 847
Last seen at: alchemilia
AuraTwilight wrote:
To me, it looks like he was somehow captured by the Order and injected with a drug that would turn him into a monster.


Interesting, but what kind of drug does that? Also why? The cult wanted to bring forth a paradise of sorts. Why would a monster be in paradise?

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Life changes daily so go with it!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Interesting, but what kind of drug does that? Also why? The cult wanted to bring forth a paradise of sorts. Why would a monster be in paradise?


Seeing as I don't consider the ending canon anyway, I never really thought about it. That's just what it looks like.

As for a drug? Perhaps some sort of counterpart to Algaophotis. He might still be in the Otherworld, so the drug doesn't have to work in our world. (It might even be what Claudia used to create the Missionary and Scrapers?)

Why? Punishment, maybe. Maybe to sick him on someone else. Or maybe Travis just fell deeper into his Otherworld, and the drug and Order members were creations of his psyche, doing to him what he THOUGHT was being done to make the other monsters.

As said above, it might not be the real cult. And either way, as Claudia and Dahlia imply, monsters will indeed be in paradise.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1407
Last seen at: room 302
AuraTwilight wrote:
Without getting arrested by the police?


It wouldn't be the first time this happened in Silent Hill. Still, I agree that I don't think the monsters in this game were real humans. I do, however, think that the Bad Ending suggests he killed people in the past or felt responsible for deaths in the past, and that now he is dealing with that aftger having been drawn to Silent Hill. Otherwise, I don't see the point of including the Butcher, and the scene where he's turning into the butcher in the bad end.

Quote:
David01: Oh my god, Christ, learn paragraph structure. That's an eyesore. I'll try and dig through it anyway.

I have to agree, I was quite unable to read that post.

Quote:
Interesting, but what kind of drug does that? Also why? The cult wanted to bring forth a paradise of sorts. Why would a monster be in paradise?

The drugs in the game may not correspond exactly to what real drugs can do in reality. Also, the cult has screwed up a bit in other games when it comes to bringing about paradise, so I don't think that really contradicts with anything. Also, whether it's a paradise or not appears to be subjective.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 Oct 2007
Notes left: 49
wow theres a bad ending =0 how do you get it?


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1407
Last seen at: room 302
KROD wrote:
wow theres a bad ending =0 how do you get it?

play through again, kill 200 baddies or more. something like that. you get the good ending automatically the first time.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
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It wouldn't be the first time this happened in Silent Hill.


When? When has a protagonist run through Silent Hill killing people without getting stopped by somebody? Not SH1...not SH2...Not SH3...not SH4...

We got a problem.

Quote:
I do, however, think that the Bad Ending suggests he killed people in the past or felt responsible for deaths in the past, and that now he is dealing with that aftger having been drawn to Silent Hill. Otherwise, I don't see the point of including the Butcher, and the scene where he's turning into the butcher in the bad end.


He may have been homicidal, but that doesn't mean he actually killed anyone. Maybe it was something forming in him due to repressing his feelings, and his experience in Silent Hill allowed him to confront it before it manifested in reality?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1407
Last seen at: room 302
AuraTwilight wrote:

When? When has a protagonist run through Silent Hill killing people without getting stopped by somebody? Not SH1...not SH2...Not SH3...not SH4...

We got a problem.


Some argue that in SH3 Heather is killing people, but I think it's open to interpretation. In any case, if it happens in an alternate dimenstion, chances are the police are not there. Also, some would argue that James kills Eddie and police don't come and overtake him. I don't think you can give a definitive answer on whether it is happening or not.

Quote:
He may have been homicidal, but that doesn't mean he actually killed anyone. Maybe it was something forming in him due to repressing his feelings, and his experience in Silent Hill allowed him to confront it before it manifested in reality?

True, but in many cases (James, Angela, etc) it would seem that they probably did things to get pulled into Silent Hill. Homicidal feelings just don't seem like a "disturbing realization" to me, though, like everything in Silent Hill, this is open to ionterpretation.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 30 May 2007
Notes left: 959
Last seen at: a dead cloverfeild...
Quote:
Some argue that in SH3 Heather is killing people,

the only people she is killing are cult members. not that it really matters. prehaps every time we see little Travis adult Travis is really freaking out and killing people. If we apply this to the bad ending it truly fits. we see little travis when he walks into his mothers padded room.
Quote:
"What are you talking about?! I'm not your Momma! Please! NOooo!!"

I dought after all these years his mother would still reconize him. we see little Travis when he walks into the hotel.
Quote:
"Sir, motel's closed this season...wait. AGhhh!" [butcher knife gutting someone sound]
We even see little Travis when he walks into room 500. his father is already dead so this leads me to beleive that he killing simply a memory of his father.

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Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Some argue that in SH3 Heather is killing people, but I think it's open to interpretation. In any case, if it happens in an alternate dimenstion, chances are the police are not there. Also, some would argue that James kills Eddie and police don't come and overtake him. I don't think you can give a definitive answer on whether it is happening or not.


The few monsters in SH3 that are human were made such by Claudia, and they're entirely in the Otherworld and are fully ready to die. As opposed to the idea of Travis somehow killing normal people in normal reality who look like monsters to him, killed by some invisible force or by a teleporting guy. And Eddie and James are in an entirely different dimension.

From how the game looks, Travis is the only one in Otherworld.

Quote:
True, but in many cases (James, Angela, etc) it would seem that they probably did things to get pulled into Silent Hill. Homicidal feelings just don't seem like a "disturbing realization" to me, though, like everything in Silent Hill, this is open to ionterpretation.


The Otherworld is a manifestation of strong feelings and thoughts. It's not the deed, but the heart, that gets you there. James and Angela are linked not by murder, but the feelings BEHIND it. Travis was suppressing this all his life, so whether he actually murdered anyone is not only weakly supported, but unneeded.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 03 Dec 2007
Notes left: 10
versatile soup spoon wrote:
"Sir, motel's closed this season...wait. AGhhh!" [butcher knife gutting someone sound]
We even see little Travis when he walks into room 500. his father is already dead so this leads me to beleive that he killing simply a memory of his father.[/quote]
But wouldn't the mother boss also be just a memory of his mother? I doubt it's his real mother, anyway, just a sort of manifestation of his guilt or whatever at not having visited her.

Still, the bad ending says you brought Travis to a terrible realization or whatever. What does that mean? It just made him realize that he's been suppressing his memories about his parents? I can understand that he'd feel crummy about the whole thing with his parents, but I can't relate it to butchery exactly.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Nov 2007
Notes left: 106
Last seen at: Jakarta
i thought they turned travis into pyramid head? so it might be origins of pyramid head?


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