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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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I read all of this, but it's all really jumbled to me.
I still don't understand the Bad ending, but I don't think it has anything to do with the cult.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
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Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
[spoiler]Travis IS the Butcher.[/spoiler]

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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[spoiler]Travis IS NOT the Butcher.[/spoiler]

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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I thought that this ending was showing the Butcher tourturing Travis for being a killer?
I played through again, and I'm almost 100% is has nothing to do with the cult, but again my mind doesn't roam that much to even conclude that.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
I posted a pic from the Bad Ending several pages back. In the pic you can clearly see someone standing in a doorway wearing robes that look identical to the ones the cultists were wearing. It is most definitely not the Butcher.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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Ugh whatever...
What was he doing in it then since he wasn't "tourturing" him?

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
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Okay, I looked over the pic, and it makes sense now. You're right, the robed figure is more than likely a cultist. I support the idea.

Another thing- we see Travis having flashes of different things, places- the butcher's block, him with his hands covered in blood. This is most likely due to the drugs that the cult injected him with. Hell, it could have been an insanely high dose of whatever Kaufman and Lisa were taking, since we see syringes in the hotel room. They could have been testing drugs on Travis, since his life was forfeit.

At any rate, there's another thing to think about. I've gathered that we imagine that he's trapped in the Otherworld. But not necessarily- in the mirror we see that stretches the entire room, we can see a figure on the other side writhing the same way Travis is.

Someone said it looked like a normal straitjacket, but I disagree. It looks like he's been bound in a sheet, and looks uncomfortably like one of those Lying Figures. Not to say he's become a Lying Figure in the Otherworld, just possibly another symbolic piece to support other ideas: that he's become prey to his own trapped aggression. (This is if we understand the Lying Figure to be symbolic of trapped aggression and the inability to do anything about it, no way to let it ease or anything.)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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Hmm, still makes little sence.
If that's the case then how on earth did Travis get away from the cult in the Good Ending?
:?


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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Last seen at: Minnesota
angelofROOM302 wrote:
Hmm, still makes little sence.
If that's the case then how on earth did Travis get away from the cult in the Good Ending?
:?

Maybe one of the cultists that ran away before the Flauros went all "oogidy-boogidy" went back after it was all over and found Travis unconcious, and Alessa recovering from her whole giving birth to Cheryl thing, got Travis, and they put him in that little room.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 27 Apr 2004
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angelofROOM302 wrote:
Hmm, still makes little sence.
If that's the case then how on earth did Travis get away from the cult in the Good Ending?
:?


You assume the good ending was truth. Remember, the good ending in SH1 was not the actual ending, as Cybil doesn't make it out of Silent Hill alive.

As far as Origins goes, look at the following in the Good Ending:

Travis is nailed by a heavy dose of White Claudia and hits the floor. The Flauros goes berserk, and he presumably has a psychic duel of wills with the demon trapped inside the Flauros. Then, Travis blacks out.

Then suddenly we're in happy sunshine land with flowers and trees and bright lights, and Alessa is waving goodbye to Travis and... well, it's too happy. It reminds me of a scene from the movie 1408:

[spoiler]The main character, trapped in his hotel room and at the tormenting mercy of it, believes he wakes up free of the room on the sunny beach. He dreams a happy life for himself, but then painfully re-awakens in the hotel afterwards.[/spoiler]

I think that Travis never made it out of Silent Hill (initially anyway, we'll get back to that) and that after he blacked out, the Order strapped him up in either the Sanitarium or Brookhaven and "made him pay" for ruining their plans. Alessa, given that she can only influence people in the otherworld and what-not, gives a happy sunshine delusion for Travis to see in "thanks" for helping her, even though he's entirely helpless of his situation.

Now, the following is a little Silent Hill V spoilery:

[spoiler]
Travis is in SHV, he picks up the main character, Alex, in his truck during what seems to be the early parts of the game from reviews. It's an older, more grizzled Travis, and it indicates that at some point he makes it out of Silent Hill. Possibly after Harry bludgeons the last of the cult into bits in SH1, maybe sometime before then. I think we'll see the resulotion to Travis' story in SHV alongside the main protagonist.
[/spoiler]

Overall, I believe that both endings are accurate, but one is more grounded in "reality" than the other.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
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Last seen at: Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium
>Remember, the good ending in SH1 was not the actual ending, as Cybil doesn't make it out of Silent Hill alive.

I hope you're not referring to the movie. . .

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 10 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Zanesville Ohio
Ok, here's my theory.... it seems that whoever goes into Silent hill is trapped in a sort of Purgatory state. I believe that the good ending, is perhaps a sort of Purgatory for Travis. Alot of religions believe that if you do the right thing and follow the ten commandments all your life.. that you will end up in Purgatory either waiting to go to hell.. or to heaven.

To me, the two main endings represent Travis's good side Or bad side. Meaning that he either chooses the right path.. and represses those awful hidden murderous feelings.. Or he acts upon them and kills 200 monsters.. meaning that he embraces his murderous side and ends up in a sort of Hell state. Meaning he goes to Silent Hill's version of his own personal hell. Or if he doesnt murder much.. and decides to help the girl without letting out his bad side.. then he ends up in a sort of Heaven like state, his own personal heaven where he leaves the town.

I dont know for sure, but that's what it looks like to me.. Kinda like Travis is in Purgatory.. well the silent hill version of Purgatory.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
You assume the good ending was truth. Remember, the good ending in SH1 was not the actual ending, as Cybil doesn't make it out of Silent Hill alive.


No, she's not. She's wondering how he'd get away if the ending WAS taken canonically. And SH1's Good Ending IS canon, you're thinking of Good+.

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Alessa, given that she can only influence people in the otherworld and what-not


Right, except that's wrong.

Quote:
Travis is in SHV


Sauce plz.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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Last seen at: Wisconsin
Yeah, I didn't mean that. He had to have gotten away from them somehow so I'm pretty sure that that is the correct ending also, i'm sure that was him I saw in a screenshot for the next game.
Since, if there was no Cheryl there wouldn't even be a Silent Hill 1. :shock:
It's hard for many to not jump to conclusions that Travis is the 'butcher' since you see images of him at the end, & the blood and also there's some random lady screaming "i'm not your mother." So, it's all jumbled. Since I rewatched the ending on youtube, I did see that reflection of the 'straightjacket' through the mirror, so that theory makes much more sence now. I was going to ask what the injections did to him, but since seeing that, I believe it's true. I still, really don't understand what Travis killed, if he did.
Poor Travis. I feel sorry for him. :cry: I don't want him to be a monster, but I guess that's why It's called the Bad Ending.

& Lucent, how do you know so much about Silent Hill 5? I must have missed that much.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Since, if there was no Cheryl there wouldn't even be a Silent Hill 1


Cheryl is born in both endings.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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True, but I liked seeing Alessa bring her out to the road.
:(


I read this off of wikipedia (yes, i know they are usually incorrect most of the time);

"Bad Ending: Travis awakens to find himself in a dark room tied to a metal table, and being injected with an unknown substance by someone. In a series of frenetic dream-like visions, Travis is made to believe he killed a woman he mistook for his mother, his father, and a hotel receptionist. Travis can be seen kneeling, looking at his bloodied arms in despair, before his form is suddenly briefly replaced by a monster resembling the 'Butcher'. Travis is left struggling on the metal table to an unknown fate."

So, is that all true? He really didn't do all that?


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My take on Travis/Butcher puzzle. Travis is and at the same time is not the butcher.

I think we are missing one more crucial aspect to this discussion and that's some of the things that were reveled at the sanitarium early on in the game. We find this information about Helen Grady being able to go through mirrors and also to be able to see through the mirrors "to the real world". She is frightful of her son, she wants to kill the "little devil".

This leads me to believe that something is wrong with Travis, something beneath the skin so to speak. It doesn't automatically mean the "Butcher" but it helps to lend some weight. The flashing bloodied hands scene makes me think he is possibly linked further to the butcher. Also when you defeat the butcher at the motel, he takes the butchers knife and kills him with it, his facial expressions during this scene (which we have no control over mind you...) are of rage and hostility. This can mean one of two things, to me, that A) the butchers torture and evisceration of the "monsters" was him prodding Travis to take up his true mantle, (I mean honestly the butchers fight was disgustingly simple. . . you are effectively trading places). However it could also be seen as him being a pacifist... he wants no one to suffer and to that end this is the first game to make use of the fist as a weapon, which by and large is much less aggressive then a "steel pipe" or a "redeemer". Which would lend itself to him not being the butcher at all, but the anti-butcher or the mirror world butcher.

Basically it can go eithier way with info from the games supporting both sides of the argument. I am in the camp that he is a "serial killer" {not just a murder} (horrible dreams he doesn't want to talk about, possible mementos ... no evidence to suggest but the poloroides of murder victims could potentially be his... I mean he does find them at the motel where he does confront the butcher (his metaphysical alter-ego) He comes to grips with who he is.... he has a child hood complex of abuse, he is amazingly concerned about Alessa to the point of traversing a monster filled town. The costume you get at the end of completing the game one-time is called "Saviour" or rather the accolade or whatever. He doesn't see his actions as "evil".


Oh and just to be clear there is no... i repeat NO PYRAMID HEAD CONNECTION. Stop please.... I know it did stop but christ I see that train of thought and I get agitated.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
I'm way sure that there is no pyramid head connection. Did I say that?
It all make sence, but I don't see any proof as to that Travis could be a killer.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Helen was a schitzophrenic, so she's not a reliable source of information. More likely, Travis merely absorbed her ramblings in his memory, such as having a devil in him and there being a mirror world, coupled with the fact that his father killed himself and yadda yadda, so he manifested all his faults as the Butcher due to blaming himself for his childhood, even though it was never really his fault.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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Last seen at: Wisconsin
Aw. Well, for some reason alot of people have been telling me that he's a murder.
:roll:
I knew he was good!


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