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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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> Just face it, they're in reality.

Than this game actually has problems, I must say.

But well, given this, let's try to solve the other mysteries I pointed out in the first post. For instance, who is luring Travis, and why, and how is this connected to his path?

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Last edited by whiter4bbit on 05 Jan 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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crucifix wrote:
Krist. wrote:
And Laura wasn't able to see what James saw in his Otherside. ... Just wanted to chime in with that.


how does she kick the key away from him in the apartments? isn't that gate part of the otherworld?


Uh, she sees him reaching for a key, kicks it off and stomps on his hand for good measure? That's how.

I dunno about the bars, really--I think that's a small bit of something not terribly.. important or vital. Meanwhile, all those monsters? Definitely vital and definitely important: that's what Laura can't see.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Lisa wasn't really feeling bad at all though. Sorry to say, she's kind of a bitch to Travis.


Again, I'm having to go off of here-say, but does her attitude towards Travis mean she can't be ashamed of what she's done? In fact, her bitchy attitude could be a sign of her internal conflict...

As for Lisa and Kaufmann being in reality... how does that work then? Intermittent periods of cross-dimensional shifts; does Travis appear to fade in and out of our reality at key plot points? If so, then why does it never happen to any of the other SH protagonists? I've always been under the impression that the real world and Otherworld do affect one another, I didn't imagine they could affect each other so profoundly...


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>When did Cybil ever interact with Harry between dimensions?
the boat.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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And how did you determine that Cybil was in foggy Silent Hill while on the boat?


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she asks where he disappeared to, followed by "i want to know what's going on here." when harry explains, she responds w/ "harry, hold on a minute. i don't get it. harry states that cheryl is there, but cybil still doesn't follow: "there?"

if she were in the [otherside] she would've "got it."

next cybil tries to tell harry "this whole thing has been a major blow to you. you need to rest." she's been telling him this all along, and every time she's been in the "foggy" silent hill. she'd be freaking out a bit too if she were for the first time where harry has fifty percent of the time.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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You're suggesting Cybil is just humoring Harry through their whole conversation then?

Maybe, but I interpreted the scene differently. "I don't get it" doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't see Otherworld; it might just mean she doesn't understand what's going on. Things are going on that are way out of her league, and she has even less idea of what's going on than Harry (considering she missed out on Dahlia's chapel speech. After Harry's explanation she even asks "Well, what's making this happen?" "This" implies (to me at least) that she's experiencing Otherworld. If she were just humoring him, wouldn't a more accurate response be "Well, what's making it happen?"


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RESPECT
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>wouldn't a more accurate response be . . .
"huh, radio. what's goin' on w/ that radio."

i don't always put the most faith in the translation of silent hill 1's script. i suppose it's up to interpretation--i've always felt cybil hadn't made it to the [otherside] until later on, in the amusement park.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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You mean she's always been in the foggy world - still full of monsters, cut out roads and so on - until the Amusement Park, right?

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Historical Society Historian
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Krist. wrote:
I dunno about the bars, really--I think that's a small bit of something not terribly.. important or vital. Meanwhile, all those monsters? Definitely vital and definitely important: that's what Laura can't see.


i only mentioned it because i figured that if the gate was apart of the otherworld, that meant laura could see at least some of it. now that i think about it, i suppose the gate could be there in the real world... it just seemed odd to me.

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Historical Society Historian
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Quote:
So this game actually have problems, I must say.


That's not a problem. The Otherworld has worked differently in every Silent Hill ever. This one allows Travis to interact with certain people in reality.

Quote:
who is luring Travis, and why, and how is this connected to his path?


Erm, Alessa, dur?

Quote:
Again, I'm having to go off of here-say, but does her attitude towards Travis mean she can't be ashamed of what she's done? In fact, her bitchy attitude could be a sign of her internal conflict...


Well, she's clearly not ashamed YET, since she keeps doing it.

Quote:
As for Lisa and Kaufmann being in reality... how does that work then? Intermittent periods of cross-dimensional shifts; does Travis appear to fade in and out of our reality at key plot points? If so, then why does it never happen to any of the other SH protagonists? I've always been under the impression that the real world and Otherworld do affect one another, I didn't imagine they could affect each other so profoundly...


Different Otherworlds = Different Rules. Plus, given that the events of SH1 allegedly altered the rules of Silent Hill's power, it's possible that the wall between reality and unreality was a lot weaker until Alessa fucked with things.

Quote:
i only mentioned it because i figured that if the gate was apart of the otherworld, that meant laura could see at least some of it. now that i think about it, i suppose the gate could be there in the real world... it just seemed odd to me.


Random bars like that in the middle of a hallway?

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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> This one allows Travis to interact with certain people in reality.

Just in one scene, just with one person, with no reason for it.


> Erm, Alessa, dur?

Why is Lisa always in Travis' path then? Why is Lisa at the beginning who lures Travis to Cedar Grove, than she's in the Arthaud Theater after Travis finds an Arthaud Theater ticket?

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RESPECT
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drewfus has a decent explanation. but read the entire thread, because there are a few errors discussed later on in it.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Quote:
Why is Lisa always in Travis' path then? Why is Lisa at the beginning who lures Travis to Cedar Grove, than she's in the Arthaud Theater after Travis finds an Arthaud Theater ticket?


Because Lisa is pretty much Alessa's only non-supernatural connection to the outside world, so she's probably fairly easy to manipulate.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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I dont understand a lot of Lisa's behavior. I preferred her in SH1

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>Lisa is pretty much Alessa's only non-supernatural connection to the outside world
Lisa isn't tending to Alessa yet in Silent Hill: Origins. According to her, Alessa is dead.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Maybe Lisa's presence amounts to fan service?


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Mockingbird wrote:
drewfus has a decent explanation. but read the entire thread, because there are a few errors discussed later on in it.


I've read almost 15 pages on Maria and raping theories - but well, here's the core of Drewfus' post:

Quote:


I believe I have uncovered the significance behind Lisa's role in Origins.

When we first meet Lisa at Alchemilla, she seems deeply concerned about Travis and claims no deep knowledge of Alessa's case, and seems genuine about it. She mentions that Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium and that she'll "get in trouble" if she's late.

Lisa likely has no idea why Kaufmann wants to meet her at the Sanitarium. She likely assumed it was to find a deserted place to sell her drugs. However, I believe that once she got there, Kaufmann showed her detailed patient files on Helen Grady and explained her situation to Lisa. Kaufmann had already met Travis, and knew that he had saved Alessa, and could potentially pose a major threat to The Order's plans. So, he turned Lisa against Travis, and charged Lisa with two jobs: keep Travis away from Alchemilla, and try to get him to leave town.

So, when Lisa meets Travis at the Sanitarium, she now views him as a person who abandoned his sick mother and left town. It's unlikely that she knows about Richard. She also says it sad how "she just sits there". The use of the present tense suggests that Helen Grady may still be alive and confined at the Sanitarium. She snaps at Travis, floored by the fact that, to her, Travis is right there and should be able to see and recognize his mother, but seems more concerned with a girl who has no relation to him and who died last night. She snaps at him, and then leaves, dropped an extra ticket to Artaud behind her on the way out to lead Travis to the theatre, rather than return to Alchemilla.

When Travis meets her at the theatre, she is sitting by herself, ruminating over her life and how different it is from the one she wants to live. With Kaufmann's request to Lisa to get Travis to leave, she comes on to him, trying to use her sexuality to manipulate Travis. This tactic would make sense to a young girl who has been sexually abused by someone in a position of power for however long this has been going on. She asks him to run away wth her, not only accomplishing the request to get rid of Travis but also perhaps as a way out for herself. When Travis refuses, and continues to single-mindedly pursue Alessa, Lisa gives up, shrugs the come-on off as a joke and leaves to meet Kaufmann at the Riverside Motel.

At the Riverside Motel, she reports to Kaufmann that she failed to get Travis to leave. In retribution for her failure, Kaufmann has sex with her in the Rose Room. Who should show up immediately after, but Travis? Lisa snarls a hostile greeting to Travis, who she blames for the rape as well as for not fulfilling her opportunity to escape. She leaves, and as far as her story with Travis is concerned it is done. Travis goes on to complete the Flauros, frees Alessa's power, and allows her to transform the town into the proper version of the Otherworld and leads Travis to the Green Lion Antique Shop. Travis seals the demon into the Flauros, and splits Alessa's soul into two. Alessa's soul self takes Cheryl to the side of the road for Harry and Mrs. Mason to find, and Travis leaves.

Meanwhile, Kaufmann and Dahlia discuss their new tactic of the summoning spell. They know it will take time, and Alessa's physical self must still be cared for. Kaufmann decides that Lisa, who is already under his thumb, is the perfect candidate for caring for Alessa, as she is not legally a full employee of Alchemilla. There is also the fact that she had many interactions with Travis, who Kaufmann knows Alessa was in alot of contact with as well. Presumably, this means that Alessa is already somewhat aware of Lisa as a person. I imagine Lisa's coerced caretaking of Alessa likely began the day after Travis and the Masons left Silent Hill.



I had already read the topic though, and I've got nothing to argue except that should be Alessa luring us to the pieces of the Flauros so that we can unconsciously help her to gain powers.

What I don't get is the relationship between Lisa and Alessa: they both have got reasons to create our path, they both do that. They both create the same path. I don't believe in coincidences, so what?


> Lisa is pretty much Alessa's only non-supernatural connection to the outside world

What does this mean? Really, I can't understand. Are you implying that Lisa is somehow "manipulated" by Alessa? That doesn't make sense to me, unless she's a delusion all the times except in the Rose Room - in which we're showed she knows Travis, so this doesn't work either.

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Along with you died joy.
All that remains is despair and a future of meaningless tomorrows.


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Historical Society Historian
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Quote:
Lisa isn't tending to Alessa yet in Silent Hill: Origins. According to her, Alessa is dead.


Are we sure Lisa isn't just lying?

Quote:
What does this mean? Really, I can't understand. Are you implying that Lisa is somehow "manipulated" by Alessa? That doesn't make sense to me, unless she's a delusion all the times except in the Rose Room - in which we're showed she knows Travis, so this doesn't work either.


After the burning, Lisa is pretty much the only person she gets to interact with, however much a burn victim can interact with anyone.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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RESPECT
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>Are we sure Lisa isn't just lying?
I am. Lisa's deception doesn't begin until she meets Michael at Cedar Grove.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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