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 Post subject: The Otherworld in Silent Hill Origins
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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I haven't found a specific topic on this, so I hope it is never been directly discussed.

Well, worlds and dimensions have always been a big topic for other SH episodes. Who created the otherworld and why, what do characters see, is there a real town behind the otherworld and so on.

We all know Alessa was behind the happenings in the first SH game; that was her otherworld, in which Harry travelled because of his direct relationship with Cheryl, who was called to town. So Harry, Kaufmann, Dahlia, Cybil and Lisa all see what Harry sees: Alessa's nightmares' manifestations. And there's no "reality" at all, to see in the game.

We know things changed in SH2: the "residual power" of the happenings of SH1 helped every character to build his own nightmarish version of the town. Even in this game, everything happens in the otherworld, except of the very beginning on top of the town and the very end.

SH3 and 4 showed us that the otherworld can also arise outside SH, with the right circumstances, but that doesn't touch Origins too much.

So, what about the otherworld in Origins?

I mean, I've been thru the game just once, I might have missed something, but in my opinion this game quite f*cks things up.
I'm trying to summarize:
Alessa somehow called out for help. Travis, who had a dark past related to SH, AND was driving through the town, fell in her "trap" and became her ally against the Cult. The otherworld spawns, and it is definitely Travis' nightmarish memories coming to life; so, what are the reasons behind this nightmarish delusions arising?
It makes no sense that Alessa was controlling them.
It seems to make no sense any sort of "purgatorial" theory, at least in the Good Ending version of the game, since Travis seems to have no violent secrets like the ones of Angela, James and Eddie.
It just spawned out.

Then we have Cedar Grove Sanitarium, related to Travis' past; Travis goes there because of Lisa (??), than he moves to the theater always because of the lures of Lisa - but the theater seems to have nothing to do with Travis' and Alessa's stories. This collides with the first two games, maybe not that much with the third in which some locations (Brookhaven?) didn't have direct sense to character's stories, but in SH3 we have god in our womb so it's just a matter of path: where we go, the otherworld spawns, cause and effect are switched. This is different in Origins.
We finally have the Motel, blatantly related to Travis.
If it was Alessa luring us to these specific places, to collect pieces of the Flauros, that could make sense, but would collide to Travis related locations (coincidence is: the pieces of the Flauros fell exactly in some important locations for Travis); and, well, it doesn't seem to be Alessa guiding us (if so, why would Lisa always be where we come?).

Questions arise: who created the otherworld and why, and why showing Travis his past?

Now about the characters. We know from the other games how characters in the otherworld see themselves, even if they see different worlds.
Since Travis sees his version of the otherworld, we would expect everyone to fu**ing see his version too. We may think that other characters always stay in the real world, and when Travis meets them (for instance: Kaufmann at Alchemilla, Kaufmann and Lisa at the Rose Room) they don't see monsters and other things. But WHY, is the first question. Why does it affect only Travis?
And, well, it's not easy to completely believe this theory: when we meet Lisa at Cedar Grove, she says something like "you know who's in that room, Travis" so she was supposed to be in the fucked up version of the sanitarium.
To me, her role was different in the first thoughts of the authors, to dramatically change when they've written the final part of the game and they didn't have much time to give birth to a strong screenplay involving Lisa's role in Travis story.
In the end, it seems like anybody see a nightmarish world but Travis or, at least, nobody reacts like if they're seeing monsters and blood and rust and demons. This doesn't make sense to me.

Please theorize - as I already stated, I've been through the game only once and I might have missed something.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Nov 2007
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"she says something like "you know who's in that room, Travis" so she was supposed to be in the fucked up version of the sanitarium." "

yes she said that but that doesnt mean she saw monster version of travis mom i guess


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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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Ok, but Mrs Grady isn't supposed to be there in real SH.
And well, she talked to Travis, so she was in the Otherworld (because Travis was certainly in the Otherworld during that scene, and if we assume that reality and Otherworld are in touch, everything about SH1/2 dimensions falls apart).

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 03 Feb 2007
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The otherworld in Silent Hill wasn't created by anyone really. It's allways been there. The gods, creatures, and locations all come form the minds of those who are there or have been there. Thats why I believe there is so much confusion when it comes to the Order trying to make sense of it and turn it into a religion.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
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The town had powers well before the occurrances of the sh series. the otherworld was simply made stronger because of Alessa. she had some definite influences over the otherworld, but the characters each have the "final say" over what their personal otherworld is. Angela had fire, Eddie had people laughing at him and we each no what the protagonists had.

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Moderator
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Missing since: 09 Aug 2007
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whiter4bbit wrote:
Ok, but Mrs Grady isn't supposed to be there in real SH.
And well, she talked to Travis, so she was in the Otherworld (because Travis was certainly in the Otherworld during that scene, and if we assume that reality and Otherworld are in touch, everything about SH1/2 dimensions falls apart).


If you see the bad ending, it explains Travis's otherworld much better. I won't spoil it incase you haven't seen it. I see Origins as more of a SH2 storyline, and the bad ending as the official ending (isn't that always the case :P), the good ending explains nothing and is simply and intro into the next game.

Also, in SH2 mary states that it used to be a sacred place - so theres no telling how long the other world has been there.

I do agree that Lisa's role in Travis's story isn't explained, but I think the problem there is that the game was on the wrong platform. I think if they'd made another PS2 game, they would have been able to go down all the paths they obviously wanted to - but since they where limited for time, they had to skim across a lot of plot points.

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Missing since: 21 May 2006
Notes left: 369
Last seen at: Italy
We can assume, for now, that the Otherworld is "part of the town" and "always been there", "catching people with a dark secret who is travelling Silent Hill".

We can assume that Travis' dark secret is the one somehow revealed in the bad ending.

We know that Alessa has got specific powers on the Otherworld (like SH1/SH3 showed us, and the final part of Origins did, too).

Other characters in Origins don't fuckin' see anything, maybe because they don't have such good dark secrets (Lisa) or because they're related to the religions of the town (Dahlia, Kaufmann and the other cultists).

Given these assumptions, Origins still remains a mystery: who is luring Travis and why (in SH2 we were heading to the hotel, and we faced James/Mary-related locations, in SH1 we were guided by Dahlia), the Theater is not related to his past, Lisa is always there, pieces of Flauros are always there. So what?

AND

Lisa's scene at the sanitarium: if she's in reality, she cannot interact with Travis in the otherworld -- but she does (we can assume in the other cutscenes Travis somehow awakens to reality).

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Lisa's scene at the sanitarium: if she's in reality, she cannot interact with Travis
why not? cybil interacted w/ harry while he was in the [otherside] and she was in the "foggy" version of town.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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And Laura wasn't able to see what James saw in his Otherside. ... Just wanted to chime in with that.

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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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We all know that two characters can interact if they're both in the otherside, but a person in the otherside cannot interact with people in reality.
I mean, we have reality, with Silent Hill being a resort town and so on.
And we have the otherside, in its foggy and dark variants, both full of monsters and psychologically-built artifacts.

If, in Origins, anybody but Travis sees monsters, aberrations, cut-out roads and so on, we're assuming they're in reality.

Lisa talks to Travis while he's in the otherside (reversed sanitarium).

So we should assume that people in the real world can talk with people in the otherside, and that would be crazy because Travis would see Lisa, but anybody else in town. And so for the other games - we must believe that otherside and reality are on totally different dimensions.


> And Laura wasn't able to see what James saw in his Otherside.

Laura wasn't in reality either.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Just because we never saw Otherworld characters interact with Reality characters doesn't mean it's impossible. After all, what about that psych ward patient who was "happy" in his Otherside?

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 07 Aug 2007
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I haven't played Origins, so it is ever explicitly mentioned that no one besides Travis saw the monsters, etc.? Or is this just an assumption?

Quote:
why not? cybil interacted w/ harry while he was in the [otherside] and she was in the "foggy" version of town.


Did she...?

Quote:
After all, what about that psych ward patient who was "happy" in his Otherside?


Was he really in Otherworld, or just insane? Not to start an old debate, but is it possible that the doctor's memo is really just a metaphor for what's going on in Silent Hill (that James is happier in this alternate reality than in the real world) and not a literal example?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Did she...?
yes.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
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Since all boss fights take place in the other world, its possible that what he was killing were

[spoiler] Innocent people [/spoiler]


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
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Krist. wrote:
And Laura wasn't able to see what James saw in his Otherside. ... Just wanted to chime in with that.


how does she kick the key away from him in the apartments? isn't that gate part of the otherworld?

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>its possible that what he was killing were . . .
unlikely, considering helen is deceased.

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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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The Walkin Dude wrote:
I haven't played Origins, so it is ever explicitly mentioned that no one besides Travis saw the monsters, etc.? Or is this just an assumption?


It is not explicitely mentioned, but nothing makes you think that someone else sees monsters & co.
In every other SH there was evidence of this.
In Origins, everybody acts like they're in reality. Lisa even laughs at Travis when he says "it's dangerous here" in the Theater.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Just because we never saw Otherworld characters interact with Reality characters doesn't mean it's impossible. After all, what about that psych ward patient who was "happy" in his Otherside?


We don't have any proofs of interaction, really. We know too little of that case. Doctor says he's "happy", but never says that talked with him while he was in the Otherworld. He could have written notes, could have talked to doctor during the moments when he was in reality.
And, accepting the theory that he was in the Otherworld (same as James', Travis', and co) and interacted with a doctor raises LOTS of questions.
For instance: do characters stay still when they travel the otherworld? Why doesn't anybody see them (and/or vice versa) except of Doctor and Lisa? Etc etc.

Now, let's go back to Lisa and Origins.
Assuming she was in reality during the sanitarium scene implies the following: she met with Kaufmann at the sanitarium. The sanitarium could be active or closed, we don't know, but it is far more likely that it was active since they met there and probably accessed the patients' data.
Now, Lisa in the real world sneaked to the fucking female seclusion area? Doesn't make sense. Even because there were anybody else right there.
If we assume that Cedar Grove was "deceased" (have we got any proofs of that?) during the years between 1961 and the time Travis went to Silent Hill, Lisa should have travelled a old building until reaching the female seclusion area; does she have all the keys and everything?

That is the less absurd theory, and it's a big say - that Lisa in the real world went to the (desert) Sanitarium, waited for Travis to come to Room 5 in female seclusion and talked to him still being in reality while he was in the Otherworld.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 07 Aug 2007
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When did Cybil ever interact with Harry between dimensions? The closest scene I can remember at the other church; but when that happens Harry clearly disappears...?

Perhaps Lisa was in a situation similar to Laura; she was feeling bad enough to be in Otherworld without spawning monsters...? Or, alternatively, the Otherworld actually is Alessa's, and Travis is just piggy-backing off it to make his own monsters. Perhaps Lisa and Kaufmann are drug into it due to their involvement with the whole ordeal (Kaufmann for being directly involved, Lisa for being involved with Kaufmann)?


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Missing since: 21 May 2006
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> Perhaps Lisa was in a situation similar to Laura

Laura was definitely related to Mary and James, Lisa never met Travis before.
Indeed, Laura was always in otherworld - Lisa is with Kaufmann in the Rose Room which is a scene that's supposed to happen in the real world.


> Or, alternatively, the Otherworld actually is Alessa's

That is unlikely. About everything we see in the game is somehow related to Travis' past, about nothing is related to Alessa's.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
We don't have any proofs of interaction, really. We know too little of that case. Doctor says he's "happy", but never says that talked with him while he was in the Otherworld. He could have written notes, could have talked to doctor during the moments when he was in reality.
And, accepting the theory that he was in the Otherworld (same as James', Travis', and co) and interacted with a doctor raises LOTS of questions.
For instance: do characters stay still when they travel the otherworld? Why doesn't anybody see them (and/or vice versa) except of Doctor and Lisa? Etc etc.


That's ridiculous. How can the doctor know he's "happy there" unless he's somehow communicating with him while he's in the Otherworld? Because the patient certainly didn't come back from it.

Quote:
Perhaps Lisa was in a situation similar to Laura; she was feeling bad enough to be in Otherworld without spawning monsters...?


Lisa wasn't really feeling bad at all though. Sorry to say, she's kind of a bitch to Travis.

Quote:
Or, alternatively, the Otherworld actually is Alessa's, and Travis is just piggy-backing off it to make his own monsters.


Alessa's Otherworld is only glimpsed during the Flauros fight.

Quote:
Perhaps Lisa and Kaufmann are drug into it due to their involvement with the whole ordeal (Kaufmann for being directly involved, Lisa for being involved with Kaufmann)?


Just face it, they're in reality.

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