Kaufmann and Lisa doing: Drugs or Sex?

Post by **SymboliC** » 25 Mar 2008

Yeah, in that room. Were they taking coke, sex, or both?

And was Lisa doing it against her own will, or was she still in control of herself?

Just wanted some strong clarifications for this.

Post by **Serenus Nihil** » 25 Mar 2008

Well, in the file you find in SH and the video, Lisa reveals that she had been taking care of Alessa for all those years and that she couldn't escape because she was addicted to White Claudia that Kaufman supplied. But this is just after Alessa was burnt, and Kaufman really has no way of knowing that Travis is going to end up helping Alessa split in two--which will require putting off the ritual for years. So at this point, he may be not as forcefully getting to try the drug knowing they will need someone to take care of her or like that note in Alchemilla says, "get a trainee while they're available," he may be just seducing her.

Post by **The Adversary** » 25 Mar 2008

She was doing PTV first, then fucking him. It was done of her own volition but was enticed by the drug.

Post by **PrinceOfDarkness** » 25 Mar 2008

I think Kaufmann was pretty much just using her for the sex, after all, how many hot nurses (sans necrophelia) are there in Silent Hill?

And before you fall through the hole in the bathtub and the movie comes up, i could have sworn i heard crying...so even if they were fucking, i don't think she was exactly willing...

Post by **The Adversary** » 25 Mar 2008

No crying, just giggling.

Post by **David01** » 25 Mar 2008

Yeah it was giggling, and Kaufman was also giggling like a wild teen ager as well. But it all links up.. and I'm sure with the events of sh1.. Lisa finally got fed up with Kaufman's sexual use of her.. and Lisa after all those years of abuse and drugs wanted out.. but Kaufman I'm sure didnt want to let someone who had seen the horrible things they did to that child go.. because that would be a risk of Lisa telling an outside party about what the cult was doing there.

Post by **PrinceOfDarkness** » 25 Mar 2008

Yeah it was giggling, and Kaufman was also giggling like a wild teen ager as well. But it all links up.. and I'm sure with the events of sh1.. Lisa finally got fed up with Kaufman's sexual use of her.. and Lisa after all those years of abuse and drugs wanted out.. but Kaufman I'm sure didnt want to let someone who had seen the horrible things they did to that child go.. because that would be a risk of Lisa telling an outside party about what the cult was doing there.

You make a convincing argument. I havent played silent hill 1 in a long while, so i wouldn't know about Kaufmann and Lisa's relationship as well as you. so sorry if i didnt make any sense.

Post by **SymboliC** » 26 Mar 2008

I just played SH1 again, and I was surprised that the intro cutscene involving Lisa getting angry and swaying from Kaufmann pulling her, now makes sense to me.

Post by **alessas angel** » 26 Mar 2008

It was giggling, they were doing both and willingly. I just hate to think of Lisa putting herself in that predicament.

Post by **Ghost13** » 27 Mar 2008

alessas angel wrote:It was giggling, they were doing both and willingly. I just hate to think of Lisa putting herself in that predicament.

I totally agree, she's such a genuinely good person.

Post by **Mis Krist.** » 27 Mar 2008

What are you guys basing this on? No, seriously, because all this backlash and sadness I see about Lisa's portrayal in Origins just smacks of fanon being overruled by canon and I can't wrap my brain around it.

These are the things we know for certain of Lisa from SH1 alone:

She took care of Alessa.
She seems to have disliked Kaufmann.
She disliked taking care of Alessa.
She was on drugs.

She garners sympathy for enduring taking care of a particularly messed up patient, yes, but um--that's her job. She's a nurse. She's trained to handle those things to a certain degree. And don't tell me that she was "forced" into it because there's no proof of that--that's fan speculation and there's no indication, that I can see, from the game that suggests Lisa was being MADE to take care of Alessa from the start. She obviously wanted out later on, but that doesn't mean that's how it was from the start. Considering what we know of Lisa and Kaufmann's prior... relationship, I think it's safe to suggest he may have asked her to do it and being a stupid kid not only on drugs but on the trouser snake of an older man, she agreed to do what he asked--and she got in over her head. That's my speculation of it, anyway.

But there is the whole fact that she's a drug addict that takes away from this whole ~blameless holy creature~ so many people seem to inflate Lisa as being. Where are you getting this from? There's really nothing solid or concrete in the game(s) to suggest she's so angelic as all that. Alessa may have perceived her that way, but come on, no one in Alessa's life was ever nice to her (besides Claudia). Heather/Alessa saying that Lisa was "so heavenly to [her] in that hellish hospital room" is more of her opinion about Lisa's care and not the woman herself. Alessa couldn't know Lisa for who she really was as a person, being a victim of severe burns and all and not being capable of wandering about on the town.

So, again. Genuinely good person? Arguable. She's a kid who did stupid things and suffered for them. That happens when you do stupid shit with scheevy people.

And most of this is meant to be humorous, not insulting.

Post by **David01** » 27 Mar 2008

I agree with you, I dont find Lisa all that holy either.. no one is perfect we all make mistakes. And Lisa made alot of Mistakes.. and the way Lisa is portrayed in sh1.. is merely just a memory of the original Lisa.. a Memory thought out by Alessa who was laying hidden in the hospital somewhere. I believe that when harry arrived in the town.. Alessa and everyone else had already been consumed by the darkness of the town.. err rather.. the people whole participated in hidding Alessa were consumed as punishment for doing such a terrible thing to her. In Origins, the town isn't completely cursed yet..

So to all of you who are whining about Lisa having sex with Kaufman boo hoo hoo.. just remember that no one is perfect.. and that part of the story line told in Origins isn't that far fetched.. sometimes very good people do some very stupid things.. but that does not make them any less of a good person.. it merely shows that they are human beings capable of wonderful things, as well as terrible things. I personally thought Origins was a very good game, and had a very solid storyline and narrative to it.. yes it was vague and wasn't as detailed as the others.. but come on.. it's the very beginning of the series..

To sit and argue about Lisa, a fictional character.. is stupid and a waste of time. She was a good person, and cared for Alessa taking care of her as best as she could.. but that doesnt mean that she is a perfect person.. Hell at the end of sh1 She showed selfish behavior when she asked Harry to help her... "Lisa" Oh Harry help me, help me! But she also seeks revenge against Kaufmann pulling him down to hell with her.. That in itself also shows that Lisa was guilty of something.. or else Alessa would have let her go too.. like she did Travis. But she didnt let her go.. because Lisa remains there forever just like everyone else.. because after all Lisa in Origins lies to Travis.. telling him that Alessa died in the fire.. and even though she was probably afraid of Kaufmann and the others.. a trully good person would've refused to participate in such a terrible deed.. even if it meant their own life being in danger. A good person stands up for their own rights and beliefs.. But Lisa folded up like a tent.. just so she could fullfill her own selfish desire to get ahold of her drugs that she was addicted to.

Post by **Goodnight** » 27 Mar 2008

A good person stands up for their own rights and beliefs.

I disagree. I think a strong person does, regardless of if they're 'good' or 'bad'. Lisa wasn't a strong person, insomuch as she made bad choices, and didn't stand up for herself. She also probably realised (possibly too late) just how dangerous the people she was dealing with were, and that doing so would get her killed horribly, which happened in any case.

I think at this stage, Lisa seemed okay with what was happening, and was a willing participant. She didn't seem distressed at all, and, to finally answer the topic question, I think she was both doing drugs and being boned. She's certainly not an innocent girl.

Post by **David01** » 27 Mar 2008

nope she is not innocent that is for sure.. but then again no one trully is innocent completely we all have things we've done that we do not feel so good about. Skeletons in are closets sorta speak.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 27 Mar 2008

I agree, Lisa was a person of less-than-wholesome morality. I don't think very many of us would like to meet the real Lisa. But Alessa probably not only had conceived notions of Lisa, but also needed her to be fashioned into something she could use as a psychological anchor on James, so she created a new Lisa with a "holier than thou" angelic personality, a sort of Maria-like construct.

Post by **Ghost13** » 27 Mar 2008

......all i meant was it's a total change from Sh1 to origins. It was just weird to see. So she fucked up. Big deal. Does'nt mean she's evil. Her heart seems to be in the right place thats all.

Post by **Video Gamer** » 27 Mar 2008

AuraTwilight wrote:I agree, Lisa was a person of less-than-wholesome morality. I don't think very many of us would like to meet the real Lisa. But Alessa probably not only had conceived notions of Lisa, but also needed her to be fashioned into something she could use as a psychological anchor on James, so she created a new Lisa with a "holier than thou" angelic personality, a sort of Maria-like construct.

...Did I miss something?

Post by **The Adversary** » 27 Mar 2008

He meant Harry.

The Lisa seen in Silent Hill 1 may be a manifestation, but she's still the same as she was from before she died. She doesn't have a "holier than thou, angelic personality"--she's just emotionally and psychologically disturbed from seven years of drug- and psychological-abuse.

Anyone that's been doing a highly addictive, highly potent hallucinogenic drug for seven years is going to be FUBAR'd. Lisa is not exempt.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 28 Mar 2008

Yea, I'm tripping on my flu medicine, I meant Harry. I've been making those mistakes all day today.

Post by **Video Gamer** » 28 Mar 2008

AuraTwilight wrote:Yea, I'm tripping on my flu medicine, I meant Harry. I've been making those mistakes all day today.

Heh, okay, get better. Not too big an error.

But if the Lisa in SH1 is a manifestation created by Alessa, how would Alessa have known about the darker side of Lisa's existence? Well, unless Alessa can forcefully read minds or something...