So Origins was supposed to explain the mysteries...

Post by **Shoot The Sky** » 03 Apr 2008

I was hoping to discover more about Taluca lake. I think its the 2nd game that they go into it a bit, but Im not following exactly what happened... so indians were thrown to the bottom and their limbs floatted up or something? I havent played 2 in a while, but does anyone know more details about Taluca lake?

Post by **Mis Krist.** » 03 Apr 2008

Native Americans weren't thrown into the lake. I'm pretty sure there may be a thread in the SH2 section that discusses the mystery of Toluca, though. You could try over there, perhaps?

Post by **Shoot The Sky** » 03 Apr 2008

alright, will do, thanks!

Post by **Grotesko** » 06 Apr 2008

Definitely, I saw no new mysteries solved.

Post by **Goodnight** » 07 Apr 2008

I didn't get anything new out of it, but I still liked seeing the events that led to Silent Hill 1.

I was hoping there would be some more information, but I think that the developers were being overly cautious and deliberately didn't add anything to the mix.

Post by **David01** » 07 Apr 2008

It shows alot actually... It shows that Alessa was trying to draw power from the Flauros..
At the end of Origins, you see that after Travis gets the last piece.. the town becomes a part of Alessa's nightmare.. and everything is suddenly thrown into darkness.. similar to the events of sh 1.. where there are moments when the darkness just happens.. but through out origins, you have to go through mirrors to get to the otherworld.. this shows that Alessa did not have access to her full power yet.. and she had to piggyback on Travis's mind to get him into the otherworld to get all the pieces that were thrown to the wind as Dahlia states in one of the many memos through out the game. No this game doesnt get into the history of the town.. but I dont believe that that was the purpose of this game.

I believe that the purpose of this game, was to show the origins of Alessa.. and how things got the way they were in sh1.. and the games that follow. But it also shows.. how anyone that comes into that town can be influenced physcologically by the town.. we see this with Travis facing his inner demons of his Mothers memory and of his fathers memory.

Post by **jdnation** » 08 Apr 2008

Well if you know Silent Hill Games, they always leave you with mroe questions while filling in some blanks. Origins didn't clear up the mysteries you expected concerning how the town's power works, the creators didn't make that claim. But Origins does draw back the curtain to show us the events that did lead up to it. Those events were in a way never detailed and were therefore a mystery. It just so ironically happens that nobody was asking for clarification on that particular mystery.

But you weren't exactly expecting them to spell things out and totally clear up everything about Silent Hill?

But here's some food for thought, Origins unveiled these mysteries for us:

What precisely went down when Alessa's house and body were burnt...

We learn that Alessa was doing her best to try and fight against the cult and free herself. She reached out to Travis and granted him the power to pass through worlds.

Where the flauros comes from and the demon it possessed. (Perhaps we can do some research to uncover more? I should've kept my save file the notes collected would've come in handy...)

More little details on the cult's activity and insight in Alessa and Dahlia's life and Lisa's and Kaufmann's and overall for the cult, if minor.

How Cheryl was born... that's a biggie!

And on a more controversial note... mind you this doesn't seem to have been cleared up... Is it possible that Travis became a catalyst for bringing the executioner into Silent Hill? The Butcher who we would later know as Pyramid Head? Knowing which ending is canon could go a long way...

Post by **lazarus1983** » 08 Apr 2008

^^^

Jesus, another one. Okay, the majority of the advertising for Silent Hill: Origins has been about how it would explain "the mysteries." Go take a look at the back of the box if you don't believe me.

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the development team probably had at least some say on how their game would be advertised.

Did I expect that the veil would be pulled back and I would be handed the answers to every question we've ever posed about Silent Hill? No. I simply commented on how the game was advertised, and how there were no real "mysteries" solved. We just got some backstory on the cult. Which, in my humble opinion, is the LEAST interesting aspect of the Silent Hill world. Again, that's just me.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 08 Apr 2008

And on a more controversial note... mind you this doesn't seem to have been cleared up... Is it possible that Travis became a catalyst for bringing the executioner into Silent Hill? The Butcher who we would later know as Pyramid Head? Knowing which ending is canon could go a long way...

DAMMIT, NO. James created Pyramid Head. Fact. Why the hell can't people grasp this after, like, how many years?

Post by **jdnation** » 09 Apr 2008

AuraTwilight wrote:DAMMIT, NO. James created Pyramid Head. Fact. Why the hell can't people grasp this after, like, how many years?

Yes, relax... We know that Pyramid head is bourne out of James mind. The idea is that the same base archetype monster has a different appearence and form to each individual person. For example the nurses in the hospital are the same basic nurses, but appear different in each iteration. The same can be said of the straitjacket monsters. And therefore the same can also be said of Pyramid head/The butcher as being representative of what is at its base the persona of the executioner. The executioner is called forth by guilty consciences or someone demanding justice be carried out. To James it is specifically Pyramid head, to Travis it is the Butcher. That's how I see it...

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 09 Apr 2008

Well, I wouldn't say that the Butcher is there to bring justice on Travis's guilty mind. If anything, both Pyramid Head and the Butcher are manifestations of their creator's dark sides, but are given different purposes, forms, etc.

Post by **jdnation** » 10 Apr 2008

I mean as a perverted sense of justice... at least in Travis's case...

And in a directly unrelated though notable case Pyramid head in the movie could be considered as an executioner figure delivering Alessa/Dahlia's justice upon the cult members... Not that the movie is canonical to the games but it does lift certain things from the games and perhaps as within the developer's circle for the SH games there is certain shared knowledge or 'laws' and guidelines about how the town and monsters work that maintain the general arhcetypes of the monsters as an underlying starting point for their form. This may explain why latter SH games like 3 and perhaps 4 and now 5 seek to venture outside the town of Silent Hill so that new monster designs may be utilized in a different environment rather than reinventing the same constant ones that populate Silent Hill.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 10 Apr 2008

I mean as a perverted sense of justice... at least in Travis's case...

Explain, because I see no justice in the Butcher's actions.

And in a directly unrelated though notable case Pyramid head in the movie could be considered as an executioner figure delivering Alessa/Dahlia's justice upon the cult members... Not that the movie is canonical to the games but it does lift certain things from the games and perhaps as within the developer's circle for the SH games there is certain shared knowledge or 'laws' and guidelines about how the town and monsters work that maintain the general arhcetypes of the monsters as an underlying starting point for their form. This may explain why latter SH games like 3 and perhaps 4 and now 5 seek to venture outside the town of Silent Hill so that new monster designs may be utilized in a different environment rather than reinventing the same constant ones that populate Silent Hill.

Obviously.

Post by **jdnation** » 11 Apr 2008

AuraTwilight wrote:Explain, because I see no justice in the Butcher's actions.

Well in theory anyway... Travis harbored a hatred towards his mother and father. His mother for going nuts and trying to kill him and making his father sad. And then his father for giving up and hanging himself leaving Travis all alone and traumatized. Travis may also psychologically feel he wants to lash out at others in a state of madness but he properly controls himself. In a way the traumatized Travis demands that some 'justice' be carried out against his parents and others to satisfy himself for all his problems.

When Travis arrives in Silent Hill, these repressed feelings/memories are amplified and call upon the Butcher who represents Travis' violent side that harbors hatred against even the hospital/asylum staff who looked after his mother and perhaps even himself (nurses) and as well as his parents (potentially also represented by the twoback monster though most feel it's more to do with sexual repression, but perhaps it could in addition also be indicative of his parents in the act). Both times we see the Butcher killing first a nurse and then later on a Twoback, although there are other images of mutilated monsters that have been killed by the Butcher, but the nurse and twoback are scenes that Travis actually sees.

Travis however doesn't want to let that side of his out, he doesn't want to harbor that hatred so in a significant moment he fights and kills the Butcher usings the same tool of the Cleaver, though at the same time he must still confront the truth and his father later on because the good Travis must still come to terms with that.

Thinking again of the figure of the executioner, one who carries out the sentence of justice in the legal sense, in SH2 James calls forth Pyramid Head unconsciously who intends to carry out justice on James himself for his sin and bring it to light. James faces the truth in that last showdown and goes on to confront Mary. In 0rigins Travis's angry side unconsciously calls on the Butcher, however the good part of Travis doesn't want that sentence against everyone and everything to be carried out and so stops the Butcher in one showdown and then goes on to confront his father as his good self.

One thing that might be said is that it's perhaps significant that Travis only faces off against the Butcher once. Whereas James encounters Pyramid Head numerous times. In James' case Pyramid Head is after James. In Travis' case, the Butcher is always a few steps ahead of him, we encounter the Butcher's blood stained presense along the path but don't quite catch up to him. We hide and peek and spot him ahead. We see him through the peephole in a room we'll have to return to. It's like a race... Who'll get there to the end first? Good Travis or the vengeful Travis found in the Butcher? Eventually just towards the last stretch Travis finally encounters the Butcher and defeats him and then carries on towards the end to find his father.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 11 Apr 2008

Well in theory anyway... Travis harbored a hatred towards his mother and father. His mother for going nuts and trying to kill him and making his father sad. And then his father for giving up and hanging himself leaving Travis all alone and traumatized. Travis may also psychologically feel he wants to lash out at others in a state of madness but he properly controls himself. In a way the traumatized Travis demands that some 'justice' be carried out against his parents and others to satisfy himself for all his problems.

Maybe, but that didn't seem to be how Travis perceived his parents and others.

When Travis arrives in Silent Hill, these repressed feelings/memories are amplified and call upon the Butcher who represents Travis' violent side that harbors hatred against even the hospital/asylum staff who looked after his mother and perhaps even himself (nurses) and as well as his parents (potentially also represented by the twoback monster though most feel it's more to do with sexual repression, but perhaps it could in addition also be indicative of his parents in the act). Both times we see the Butcher killing first a nurse and then later on a Twoback, although there are other images of mutilated monsters that have been killed by the Butcher, but the nurse and twoback are scenes that Travis actually sees.

Travis however doesn't want to let that side of his out, he doesn't want to harbor that hatred so in a significant moment he fights and kills the Butcher usings the same tool of the Cleaver, though at the same time he must still confront the truth and his father later on because the good Travis must still come to terms with that.

Sure.

Thinking again of the figure of the executioner, one who carries out the sentence of justice in the legal sense, in SH2 James calls forth Pyramid Head unconsciously who intends to carry out justice on James himself for his sin and bring it to light. James faces the truth in that last showdown and goes on to confront Mary. In 0rigins Travis's angry side unconsciously calls on the Butcher, however the good part of Travis doesn't want that sentence against everyone and everything to be carried out and so stops the Butcher in one showdown and then goes on to confront his father as his good self.

Sounds like the Butcher is merely venting aggression instead of wielding Justice against a guilty self. Totally different.

One thing that might be said is that it's perhaps significant that Travis only faces off against the Butcher once. Whereas James encounters Pyramid Head numerous times. In James' case Pyramid Head is after James. In Travis' case, the Butcher is always a few steps ahead of him, we encounter the Butcher's blood stained presense along the path but don't quite catch up to him. We hide and peek and spot him ahead. We see him through the peephole in a room we'll have to return to. It's like a race... Who'll get there to the end first? Good Travis or the vengeful Travis found in the Butcher? Eventually just towards the last stretch Travis finally encounters the Butcher and defeats him and then carries on towards the end to find his father.

An interesting interpretation.

Website · Post by **Breaka** » 28 Jun 2008

I totally agree that this game completely misses the point. I thought it was supposed to explain the entire 0rigins of alternative Silent Hill, but instead it focuses on Travis with the odd bit back story to SH1. But in the end it barely expalined a thing.

It tells us nothing about what the sirens mean. We don't get to know who Alessa personally at all. The other world is never properly explained or what the cult are really doing. And then it even introduces new stuff that it fails to fully explain. Like what is the deal with Kaufman and Lisa?

Not that I think it would be the best idea to try and explain everything anyway. I like that we are often left guessing. But they could at least help to get to better feel for what's gone on.

What really winds me up is that in other games there are pages and pages or written notes saying about what Alessa got up to at school and stuff. Would it of hurt to have seen these going on in action? That's what really pisses me off about the whole series sometimes, rather than just show you, you just end up reading about it.

I think it would have been better if Travis's story was a separate Vice City Stories style spin off, of which they could have made loads. And for 0rigins, you could of actually played as Alessa, at least in parts. Or mabey her teacher or something?

Saying that I thought Travis' story was great, and the whole experience did actually set the scene very well as a town that brings out the dark side of people. A town filled with orphans, sanitariums, sleazy motels, suicide, murders.. gives you a feel for what goes on in the background.

Post by **David01** » 28 Jun 2008

Exactly, And I am glad that they didn't go too deep into the backstory behind the Alessa story. Because that story has been told and told and told over and over and over again.. parts 1 through 3.. so to do a bit of a backstory is just fine in my book.

Post by **Icarus** » 28 Jun 2008

I believe that Ryan spoke about The Red-Headed One, best.

As for explaining things: I just bought the Play Station 2 port, and I'm half-way through. So far, the only thing I've learned is that Travis saved Alessa, the fact that Kaufmann is an asshole, (Yes, you read right. I just now learned that in this game... He was my favorite character from the original game.) and that Lisa is a ditz. We'll see as I continue on with it later.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 28 Jun 2008

I thought it was supposed to explain the entire 0rigins of alternative Silent Hill, but instead it focuses on Travis with the odd bit back story to SH1.

Now, that's a bit unfair, 0rigins was never planned to explain the former, even when they were picking the name.

It tells us nothing about what the sirens mean. We don't get to know who Alessa personally at all. The other world is never properly explained or what the cult are really doing.

We already know that.

And then it even introduces new stuff that it fails to fully explain. Like what is the deal with Kaufman and Lisa?

First of all, that's not new. Second of all, do you really need the help figuring it out?

What really winds me up is that in other games there are pages and pages or written notes saying about what Alessa got up to at school and stuff. Would it of hurt to have seen these going on in action? That's what really pisses me off about the whole series sometimes, rather than just show you, you just end up reading about it.

I think it would have been better if Travis's story was a separate Vice City Stories style spin off, of which they could have made loads. And for 0rigins, you could of actually played as Alessa, at least in parts. Or mabey her teacher or something?

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

Website · Post by **Breaka** » 29 Jun 2008

AuraTwilight wrote:
It tells us nothing about what the sirens mean. We don't get to know who Alessa personally at all. The other world is never properly explained or what the cult are really doing.
We already know that.

Sirens no, Alessa's character no, and I think there could be a more lucid account of what the cult really do. An inside perspective.

AuraTwilight wrote:
And then it even introduces new stuff that it fails to fully explain. Like what is the deal with Kaufman and Lisa?
First of all, that's not new. Second of all, do you really need the help figuring it out?

Chronologically it's new, and in this story I think it does require more clarity. You just never get anything more than a brief introduction to these characters, and it aint enough.

AuraTwilight wrote:
What really winds me up is that in other games there are pages and pages or written notes saying about what Alessa got up to at school and stuff. Would it of hurt to have seen these going on in action? That's what really pisses me off about the whole series sometimes, rather than just show you, you just end up reading about it.

I think it would have been better if Travis's story was a separate Vice City Stories style spin off, of which they could have made loads. And for 0rigins, you could of actually played as Alessa, at least in parts. Or mabey her teacher or something?
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

Your much much more lame. Quote that!