A Comprehensive Theory/Explanation Of Silent Hill: Origins

Post by **The Adversary** » 23 Jun 2008

It's a sigil that can be used both for and against god. It's only called the Seal of Metatron because of its power--it's really called the Virun VII Crest.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 23 Jun 2008

I should be stopping this, but part of me wants to watch you two fight to the death.

I don't even know what we're supposed to be fighting about, which is why I'm laughing. Is he trying to accuse me of something, or make some shit up like a 4th grader? I'm not getting it.

Post by **The Adversary** » 23 Jun 2008

I'd rather be a 4th grader than a plagiarist. . . .

Anyway.

You say Samael doesn't exist. I disagree. Samael is, in terms of the Silent Hill series, the same as Metatron. I believe that Valtiel (the one closest to god) is Metatron (the one closest to God), thus Valtiel is also Samael (the opposite side of the same coin).

Additionally, opponents of The Order refer to god (Lord of Serpents and Reeds) as Samael because it (Samael) is, in Judeo-Christian mythology, the "devil" and the antithesis of God.

Post by **Harrys_Girl** » 23 Jun 2008

As long as it is someone else arguing, I am good.

To Mockingbird:
You stated that the sigil could be used for or against god, and is clearly seen on Valtiel/ Metatron's arm. Why would something that is thought to nurture god and help her cross between the worlds, be mark with something that could potentially harm god?

Just need clarity on this point. NOT trying to fight or argue. Just converse.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 23 Jun 2008

I'd rather be a 4th grader than a plagiarist. . . .

WTH is this coming from? I don't plagiarize anything, and even if I did, the fact that you have to resort to a personal flaw in the middle of what was supposed to be a civil discussion makes you look childish. Grow the hell up, and atleast don't make stuff up if you're going to insult people.

You say Samael doesn't exist. I disagree. Samael is, in terms of the Silent Hill series, the same as Metatron. I believe that Valtiel (the one closest to god) is Metatron (the one closest to God), thus Valtiel is also Samael (the opposite side of the same coin).

Additionally, opponents of The Order refer to god (Lord of Serpents and Reeds) as Samael because it (Samael) is, in Judeo-Christian mythology, the "devil" and the antithesis of God.

I suppose I could agree with that, but I was kind've referring to the Judeo-Christian version anyway, since the name popped up being connected to the Flauros demon.

Post by **paladin181** » 23 Jun 2008

As much as I like like Mockingbird's essays, writing them doesn't make it a fact that you can reference as an argument to someone else's ideas. That would be like me writing down an idea on a piece of paper and anytime someone contradicts it, I pull it out and say "I'm right because it's written right there." I'm not saying you're wrong, Thomas, but at the same time, you can't present your own thesis as evidence unless it IS your argument. In this case though, it isn't because your argument isn't fluid (ie you simply refer people to it as the final word with no actual discussion).

In reality Samael was always a name for those opposed to the cult to call the "God". Names are just semantic anyway. "Would not a Rose by any other name smell just as sweet?" I don't see the point in arguing the name Samael as the "god"/devil (something that was likely originally intended, though the idea of Satan worship would have to be breeched very cautiously back in 1999) or as one of the agents of the "god".

What's to say the cult has any competent intelligence about the reality of the beings they are summoning? How much do they really understand about the entities with which they are communing? How do we know that the "demons" they keep summoning are actually what the cult has called them, and not manifestations of other "beings" who, seeing what the cult was trying to do, took advantage of them? We don't know any of this, so names are really not any of it, except to know how they call their.. "deities" and "servants".

Post by **Droo** » 23 Jun 2008

Given the visage of The Order's "God" the two times we've seen it (three? does SH4 count?), as well as the nature of the reality it brings, I think it's safe to say that it's far from good.

Dahlia doesn't seem to care, and is just in it for a power grab. Claudia is completely blinded by her faith and seems unable to see it for what is really is. And Walter, well, Walter is just nuts.

Post by **SilentMadness** » 23 Jun 2008

Yet walter was also brainwashed just like claudia as he was raised in hope house, so yes he's crazy but so is claudia and dahlia and everybody else that bought into that hoopla.

Post by **Droo** » 23 Jun 2008

I'm sure that they would disagree with you that it's crazy. Anyone who truly believes in any religion would disagree with someone who saw their belief as strange. That's how things are.

Post by **The Adversary** » 23 Jun 2008

>Just need clarity on this point.
I already have. It being called the Seal of Metatron is only a name--it is really called the Virun VII Crest. It can be used for either good or evil, just like god can be.

>the fact that you have to resort to a personal flaw in the middle of what was supposed to be a civil discussion makes you look childish.
To be fair, you started it. "Get over yourself," you said "in the middle of what was [. . .] a civil discussion."

>writing them doesn't make it a fact that you can reference as an argument
Didn't say it was a fact. I simply linked the essay so that it could be read in reference to this topic. That's something that needs to be gotten over. . . .

Post by **Rastek** » 23 Jun 2008

This thread has derailed so much from it's original direction it's funny. I don't see really what this memo changes other than now we know where Dahlia got the name "Samael". It's not usual in me to say this, but I believe you're over examining what is just a simple "Don't mingle with those cultists; they worship the demon Samael!" that's been explicitly stated to come from enemies of the cult, i.e, the church, which would explain the Judeo/Christean reference.

Post by **David01** » 23 Jun 2008

I agree totally, that the person who wrote that memo was definately an opponent of the cult. Perhaps a former member of the cult who turned against them.. or someone who just totally lost their mind.. who knows.

Post by **Harrys_Girl** » 24 Jun 2008

>Just need clarity on this point.
I already have. It being called the Seal of Metatron is only a name--it is really called the Virun VII Crest. It can be used for either good or evil, just like god can be.

If Valtiel/Samael/Metatron are all the same person, which is acceptable considering most angels in the Angelic Scripture had multiple names, why does he bare a sigil that is believed by the mother of god, Alessa, to be a tool against god. If Alessa is the doorway through which god will enter this world and bring paradise, and Valtiel, broken down to mean "mover of god" or "tranporter of god", then is the sigil used to magnify or block the entrance of god into this world? Alessa wanted to use it in a way like hanging a "Go Away" sign on the door, correct? If so, then she basically placed said sign on the vehicle in which the god travels.

Or does she hope it is a tool of good, to be used against the god of pain she has thought of her to be? Again, like a "Go Away" sign. She has come to believe that the god's coming will be hellish, so she put the sigil, the "Go Away" sign on the vehicle of god, in hopes that it will leave?

This is where I need clarity.

Post by **The Adversary** » 24 Jun 2008

I just explained this. I even explained it in my thread in greater detail. The book Otherworld Laws explains it, too.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 24 Jun 2008

To be fair, you started it. "Get over yourself," you said "in the middle of what was [. . .] a civil discussion."

You were being needlessly condescending and snotty. You knew damn well what context I was arguing against the name "Samael" and you twisted it to make me look ignorant.

If Valtiel/Samael/Metatron are all the same person, which is acceptable considering most angels in the Angelic Scripture had multiple names, why does he bare a sigil that is believed by the mother of god, Alessa, to be a tool against god. If Alessa is the doorway through which god will enter this world and bring paradise, and Valtiel, broken down to mean "mover of god" or "tranporter of god", then is the sigil used to magnify or block the entrance of god into this world? Alessa wanted to use it in a way like hanging a "Go Away" sign on the door, correct? If so, then she basically placed said sign on the vehicle in which the god travels.

Or does she hope it is a tool of good, to be used against the god of pain she has thought of her to be? Again, like a "Go Away" sign. She has come to believe that the god's coming will be hellish, so she put the sigil, the "Go Away" sign on the vehicle of god, in hopes that it will leave?

This is where I need clarity.

Basically, it was intended to help God, but anything that can be used to help can also be used to harm. Alessa also seemed to see the God as an evil parasite, and the Seal remained a tool of divinity. Her beliefs became real in the Otherworld, and the rest solves itself.