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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Finished Origins, stuff I noticed...
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Jul 2008
Notes left: 184
Last seen at: Gennep, Limburg, Netherlands
K, onward to Silent Hill 1. I really enjoyed Silent Hill Origins this time through. Loved the amount of music in the game, new themes for every environment you visit. Loved the way the story cleared up every question I had about Silent Hill 1 (ok, not every question). Loved the variety between all the areas you visit, how all of the otherworld-places had it's own color palette and theme. Some interesting things I noticed this time and never really thought about before:

- The Flauros is devided into 5 pieces and the otherworlds you visit reflect these pieces; The hospital, where you find the "future" piece was a place of importance in the future. The sanitarium, home to the "past" piece, first introduced us to Travis' past. The theater was full of "falsehood" and the piece found there was called just that. The motel dealt with the final "truth" behind Travis' past. The "present" piece in the hospital basement lead to important events in the present.

- I believe Lisa was charged with bringing the Past-piece of the flauros to the sanitarium after Kaufman had just hid his piece in the hospital and, while high on White Claudia, saw the ghost of Travis' mom when hiding the flauros piece, thus tripping out when you meet her. The next piece was given to her at the sanitarium by Kaufman, she was to take it to the theater while kaufman went to the motel with the "truth" piece. Just after hiding the "present" piece in the hospital basement, Dahlia heads to the antique shop for the ceremony to have Alessa birth god. That's why the back-entrance in the shop was left open when Travis arrived (hasty as Dahlia was to start the ceremony).

- Like I mentioned in another thread, I noticed drawings on some walls spread around the sanitarium, they're brightly colored line-drawings, different each time. One I remember is found outside the female isolation ward. As you face the doors in the otherworld to the right on the wall. Don't know what these drawings could mean. Anyone else notice this?

- What's with all the strange puzzles throughout the game that have no relation whatsoever to Travis' mental state or Alessa's otherworld? Like the deathmask in need of eyes for some symbolic reason in the hospital or the golden-egg-lock just before that. I count the other sides of the mirror on stage in Artaud theater as part of these and there are a couple more strange puzzles throughout the game with no relevance to the story as far as I know. The other Silent Hill games have puzzles and places like this too, could just be strange stuff to mess with people, but it could also mean something. Following a theory of the Silent Hill dimensions being a sort of collective subconscious of the people that have been there, could these puzzles come from other peoples minds? Any explanation anyone?

- Lots of references to holes like the Silent Hill 4 bathroom hole and those in SH2 in this game. The hole in the apartments leading "home". The hole you crawl through SH4 style at the end leading to the cults ceremonial place and lots more. Whats the leading theory on the meaning of HOLES in Silent Hill?

- Powdery stuff being thrown in Travis' face as he approaches the cultists at the ceremony of god-birthing making him fall to the floor and dream of some monster he sees on a painting behind Alessa... Strangely the games keep offering White Claudia or at least some kind of drug as the cause for all the travels to the otherworlds of Silent Hill but it's never really a plausible explanation. I don't know if Silent Hill 1 ever shows us White Claudia but this game suggests it's white powder that's usually used by injecting it (bag of powder with the siringes at the motel room where Lisa and Kaufman hung out). The white powder thrown at travis looks a bit like the mist we see all over town. "White" being the primary color in Silent Hill as well as being in the name for the drug. Oh and those butterfly's in the drawing on the wall where you wake up in Silent Hill circling a white flower (which is what the drug is made of). References everywhere but it's just too weird if the main characters in all the games are supposedly stoned all the time.

- You wake up on a bench every time you just visited a dark world. Like in Silent Hill 1 and 4. A note in the sanitarium I think says that people go into a catatonic state when "visiting the otherworld" (in reference to Helen Grady visiting the other side of the mirror i think this note was).

I'm too tired at the moment but I'll think of some of the other things I wanted to mention later on. Thoughts or cynisism people?

So after a couple hours configuring my emulator I'm on to Silent Hill 1, see you in the Silent Hill 1 section of the forums :)

_________________
"We are such stuff as dreams are made of, and our little life is rounded with a sleep."


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 Post subject:

I don't think the hole is some universal Silent Hill thing, each game uses them differently and each has a different meaning, or at least in my mind...

Silent Hill 2- I honestly think they're used to show James' plunging deeper and deeper to a point of no return and that he'll soon discover something that should've been left alone. The "There was a hole here. It's gone now." message at the bar shows something being covered up or hidden, much like how James blocked out the memories he had of Mary.

Silent Hill 3- Used mainly as a vaginal image to reference Heather's pregnancy.

Silent Hill 4- More pregnancy references...

Silent Hill: Origins- Not a single clue...


Last edited by TheRedOne on 06 Jan 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
- I believe Lisa was charged with bringing the Past-piece of the flauros to the sanitarium after Kaufman had just hid his piece in the hospital and, while high on White Claudia, saw the ghost of Travis' mom when hiding the flauros piece, thus tripping out when you meet her.


There's no evidence that Lisa is high at that point. In fact, she seems way too lucid. She was emotionally upset and feeling pity for Helen, that wouldn't be if she were some scary ghost. Thus, I think what really happens is that Helen is still alive in the real world, Lisa notices that Travis never ever visits her, and it breaks her heart. The Helen you fight, though, is still a manifestation.

Quote:
- What's with all the strange puzzles throughout the game that have no relation whatsoever to Travis' mental state or Alessa's otherworld? Like the deathmask in need of eyes for some symbolic reason in the hospital or the golden-egg-lock just before that. I count the other sides of the mirror on stage in Artaud theater as part of these and there are a couple more strange puzzles throughout the game with no relevance to the story as far as I know. The other Silent Hill games have puzzles and places like this too, could just be strange stuff to mess with people, but it could also mean something. Following a theory of the Silent Hill dimensions being a sort of collective subconscious of the people that have been there, could these puzzles come from other peoples minds? Any explanation anyone?


I don't know about you, but I can make out quite a few symbolic links between Travis, Alessa, and the puzzles.

Quote:
- Lots of references to holes like the Silent Hill 4 bathroom hole and those in SH2 in this game. The hole in the apartments leading "home". The hole you crawl through SH4 style at the end leading to the cults ceremonial place and lots more. Whats the leading theory on the meaning of HOLES in Silent Hill?


There isn't. Holes are just holes. What, would you prefer doors in the floor? :roll:

Quote:
- Powdery stuff being thrown in Travis' face as he approaches the cultists at the ceremony of god-birthing making him fall to the floor and dream of some monster he sees on a painting behind Alessa... Strangely the games keep offering White Claudia or at least some kind of drug as the cause for all the travels to the otherworlds of Silent Hill but it's never really a plausible explanation. I don't know if Silent Hill 1 ever shows us White Claudia but this game suggests it's white powder that's usually used by injecting it (bag of powder with the siringes at the motel room where Lisa and Kaufman hung out). The white powder thrown at travis looks a bit like the mist we see all over town. "White" being the primary color in Silent Hill as well as being in the name for the drug. Oh and those butterfly's in the drawing on the wall where you wake up in Silent Hill circling a white flower (which is what the drug is made of). References everywhere but it's just too weird if the main characters in all the games are supposedly stoned all the time.


That wasn't White Claudia, it was a knock-out gas/powder.

Quote:
- You wake up on a bench every time you just visited a dark world. Like in Silent Hill 1 and 4. A note in the sanitarium I think says that people go into a catatonic state when "visiting the otherworld" (in reference to Helen Grady visiting the other side of the mirror i think this note was).


Alessa is manually putting Travis on those benches, it has nothing to do with the mechanisms behind his trips, as he woke up on a bench before he even knew about the Dark World, and he doesn't find himself on a bench unless it's after a boss fight, and he takes his body with on every mirror swap. Also, I don't think Helen was REALLY going to the other side of the mirror.

Bitch was nuts.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 12 Jul 2008
Notes left: 184
Last seen at: Gennep, Limburg, Netherlands
hmmm.
Never thought about that with Lisa in the sanitarium, makes sense. But how is it then that travis only ever sees Lisa, Kaufman or Dahlia throughout the game? I thought it might be that the drugs somehow makes them visible in the foggy world, or could it be Alessa already drawing them into the plans she has for them in Silent Hill 1?

Could anyone explain some of the symbolism found in those puzzles then? I do notice meaning in the weird puzzles Silent Hill 1 has me solve at the moment, just didn't get the meaning of the puzzles in Silent Hill Origins I suppose.

I have to agree with your logic once more Aura :o .

_________________
"We are such stuff as dreams are made of, and our little life is rounded with a sleep."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Never thought about that with Lisa in the sanitarium, makes sense. But how is it then that travis only ever sees Lisa, Kaufman or Dahlia throughout the game?


Dahlia and Kauffman don't snort their own product, bucko, and even still, none of those three seem high whatsoever. Not to mention Dahlia can cast spells to project herself into the Otherworld in order to mess with Travis's and Alessa's affairs. Either Dahlia is also projecting Kauffman and Lisa, or...

Quote:
or could it be Alessa already drawing them into the plans she has for them in Silent Hill 1?


It could be Alessa making them visible to Travis and vice versa for information moling. Kauffman and Lisa are in the real world, but Alessa allows them to see him at certain times and vice versa. Dahlia is probably "Hacking in" to Alessa's Otherworld to stop her.

Quote:
Could anyone explain some of the symbolism found in those puzzles then? I do notice meaning in the weird puzzles Silent Hill 1 has me solve at the moment, just didn't get the meaning of the puzzles in Silent Hill Origins I suppose.


Err...where should I start?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
Or the pieces where just there, not placed by anyone consciously.




Each puzzle has its own symbollic meaning or allusion to an outside source. You would heav to look at each one individually, Kupomee.

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The war has begun:
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I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 12 Jul 2008
Notes left: 184
Last seen at: Gennep, Limburg, Netherlands
Well aside from the puzzle symbolism, which I'll try and figure out next time I play the game, this thread pretty much cleared up any questions I had about the game. Thanks for that.

_________________
"We are such stuff as dreams are made of, and our little life is rounded with a sleep."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Or the pieces where just there, not placed by anyone consciously.


Right. Dahlia consciously used the Flauros to seal Alessa's power and decided to hide it, and it magically, on it's own, splits into pieces, go to relevant areas, generate bosses, and wrap themselves in protective wards all on it's own?

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 16 Jul 2008
Notes left: 979
Last seen at: Florida, United States
Thats why you gett the memo from Dahlia to Kaufmann in Alchemilla about hiding them and why you see her in the Sanitarium.

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"And everything seemed to be going so well...."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
"Or the pieces were there, not placed there consciously." = me being sarcastic. My mistake, should have used one of those smilies that lets the sarcastically impared get my drift.

Of course Dahlia did something with it. She got it long before Origins from the owner of The GreenLion Antique Shop.

_________________
Image
The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Finished Origins, stuff I noticed...

Kupomee wrote:
K, onward to Silent Hill 1. I really enjoyed Silent Hill Origins this time through. Loved the amount of music in the game, new themes for every environment you visit. Loved the way the story cleared up every question I had about Silent Hill 1 (ok, not every question). Loved the variety between all the areas you visit, how all of the otherworld-places had it's own color palette and theme. Some interesting things I noticed this time and never really thought about before:

- The Flauros is devided into 5 pieces and the otherworlds you visit reflect these pieces; The hospital, where you find the "future" piece was a place of importance in the future. The sanitarium, home to the "past" piece, first introduced us to Travis' past. The theater was full of "falsehood" and the piece found there was called just that. The motel dealt with the final "truth" behind Travis' past. The "present" piece in the hospital basement lead to important events in the present.

- I believe Lisa was charged with bringing the Past-piece of the flauros to the sanitarium after Kaufman had just hid his piece in the hospital and, while high on White Claudia, saw the ghost of Travis' mom when hiding the flauros piece, thus tripping out when you meet her. The next piece was given to her at the sanitarium by Kaufman, she was to take it to the theater while kaufman went to the motel with the "truth" piece. Just after hiding the "present" piece in the hospital basement, Dahlia heads to the antique shop for the ceremony to have Alessa birth god. That's why the back-entrance in the shop was left open when Travis arrived (hasty as Dahlia was to start the ceremony).

- Like I mentioned in another thread, I noticed drawings on some walls spread around the sanitarium, they're brightly colored line-drawings, different each time. One I remember is found outside the female isolation ward. As you face the doors in the otherworld to the right on the wall. Don't know what these drawings could mean. Anyone else notice this?

- What's with all the strange puzzles throughout the game that have no relation whatsoever to Travis' mental state or Alessa's otherworld? Like the deathmask in need of eyes for some symbolic reason in the hospital or the golden-egg-lock just before that. I count the other sides of the mirror on stage in Artaud theater as part of these and there are a couple more strange puzzles throughout the game with no relevance to the story as far as I know. The other Silent Hill games have puzzles and places like this too, could just be strange stuff to mess with people, but it could also mean something. Following a theory of the Silent Hill dimensions being a sort of collective subconscious of the people that have been there, could these puzzles come from other peoples minds? Any explanation anyone?

- Lots of references to holes like the Silent Hill 4 bathroom hole and those in SH2 in this game. The hole in the apartments leading "home". The hole you crawl through SH4 style at the end leading to the cults ceremonial place and lots more. Whats the leading theory on the meaning of HOLES in Silent Hill?

- Powdery stuff being thrown in Travis' face as he approaches the cultists at the ceremony of god-birthing making him fall to the floor and dream of some monster he sees on a painting behind Alessa... Strangely the games keep offering White Claudia or at least some kind of drug as the cause for all the travels to the otherworlds of Silent Hill but it's never really a plausible explanation. I don't know if Silent Hill 1 ever shows us White Claudia but this game suggests it's white powder that's usually used by injecting it (bag of powder with the siringes at the motel room where Lisa and Kaufman hung out). The white powder thrown at travis looks a bit like the mist we see all over town. "White" being the primary color in Silent Hill as well as being in the name for the drug. Oh and those butterfly's in the drawing on the wall where you wake up in Silent Hill circling a white flower (which is what the drug is made of). References everywhere but it's just too weird if the main characters in all the games are supposedly stoned all the time.

- You wake up on a bench every time you just visited a dark world. Like in Silent Hill 1 and 4. A note in the sanitarium I think says that people go into a catatonic state when "visiting the otherworld" (in reference to Helen Grady visiting the other side of the mirror i think this note was).

I'm too tired at the moment but I'll think of some of the other things I wanted to mention later on. Thoughts or cynisism people?

So after a couple hours configuring my emulator I'm on to Silent Hill 1, see you in the Silent Hill 1 section of the forums :)


well.... for the White Claudia thing...... [spoiler]it is in the room where you walk in on Kaufmann and Lisa... on the table where Travis says "i try to avoid these kinds of stuff"[/spoiler]

maybe the holes symbolizes something like the mirror...... another way... *lol*

the benches thing.... well.... maybe Alessa couldnt leave him on the floor as Travis has nothing to with the place(when u got the part of Flauros) i mean.... Alessa really wants the Flauros completed right? so why w8?


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1514
Last seen at: Colombia
Eh... I don't remember Holes in SH1, just the falling floor before fight the worm...

I think I heard before about the holes in SH4 representing the birth of Walter or somthing like this...


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