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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 12 May 2009
Notes left: 363
Last seen at: Singapore
paladin181 wrote:
^ Yeah, but if that were true, we'd have heard about it in SH1 probably. "Big fire, 6 houses destroyed. Oh, and a psycho killer on the loose right after, slaughtering random townspeople.." I realize that this game can't retroactively add content to the later games, but in fitting with canon, it absolutely can't be the true ending.


Your posts reminded me of Siren.
"This is for Mi****!" or something like that.

EDIT:
I only remembered the first 2 letters of her name, so I left it that way :lol:


Last edited by Restoration01 on 18 Feb 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7970
Last seen at: Nowhere
^Mi what? Fuck? Shit? Dick? :?:

Anyway, that's not the true ending. The real ending is the good one, like tons of member's already said.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Nov 2003
Notes left: 128
I just replayed 0rigins and I can't help wondering if we're missing a piece here.

Not, as in we haven't figured it out, but as in we're actually missing a chunk and either Climax left stuff out, pulled back on some other story idea or something.

A very accomplished game technically but Travis himself and his journey did nothing for me and I think, on this play, I realised why. Everything that is revealed to him is simply a bunch of stuff that happened to him. Yeah, that describes every reveal but the big difference between Travis and, say, James is that Travis took no active role in anything. Even Angela, simply by the nature of the crimes commited against her and her will to off herself, was far more intwined in what she was going through.

Travis just happened to be related to these people. He knew nothing of his mother and, if he did, would have been too young to completely understand. And the only thing that comes away as odd with his father is the idea that he stayed and watched. But then, wasn't he locked in the room and it was 1973 so he didn't even have a Gameboy.

He had no role.

I'm with the people who say that Travis isn't the Butcher. The main first ending is what ties to SH1 and that gives not even the slightest nod to that idea. Not a hint. And the immediacy at which Travis goes out of his way to pull someone he doesn't know from a burning building and then hang around to check up on her, yeah, it could be different aspects of his personality or whatever but it does seem to create too much conflict for me to go with some sort of serial killer story.

It doesn't fit for me.

And yet, I have to wonder if that, at some point, was the intention. Or if there was some other intention that just didn't make it in there? The watching of his father's death could have been the start of a fascination with death, which ties in with the photos of those causes of death. That he follows the butcher's bloody trail seems to be no accident and the butcher is made real in memos, seemingly more than just some aspect of Travis' psyche. And, while others (who, like me, don't believe he is the butcher) dismiss the dummy mutilation, even on first play through, I felt it was a pretty big deal and more was going to be made of it.

But it wasn't.

And then there's the alternative ending. For me, the implication seems pretty clear there. And yet it doesn't gel with much of the game and certainly seems at complete odds with the main ending so I can see how it is easily dismissed. Nevertheless, it is there.

And I'm left thinking - no, Travis isn't the butcher. But his revelations don't seem to have any impact for such a difficult journey, don't reveal much about him or who he is because we never at any stage get a clue about what sort of man his is now (except the type who saves people from burning buildings) or what relevance any of that has had to his life beyond childhood.

It's possible I'm missing a piece of the puzzle within the game itself.

But it really seemed to me like there was actually something missing from the game. Like maybe, at one point, Climax did intend for him to be the butcher and then did an about turn and went for a happier ending. Or they had some other plans for him. I really don't know but something in there about Travis seems incomplete.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
As I've complained about quite a few times, Origins probably would've benefited from being made entirely into Travis' story, with no involvement from Alessa.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 12 May 2009
Notes left: 363
Last seen at: Singapore
AuraTwilight wrote:
As I've complained about quite a few times, Origins probably would've benefited from being made entirely into Travis' story, with no involvement from Alessa.


True, I felt that Travis' story has so much more to add on.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
I think the bad ending in Origins suggests the fact that when you kill a monster in Silent Hill, you actually kill a person in real life-which brings us to Vincent's quote about the monsters in SH3


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Feb 2004
Notes left: 3094
Last seen at: Deep Inside
Can't sleep so I'm surfing the web, I will regret it in the morning

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Quote:
Yeah, that describes every reveal but the big difference between Travis and, say, James is that Travis took no active role in anything. Even Angela, simply by the nature of the crimes commited against her and her will to off herself, was far more intwined in what she was going through.

Travis just happened to be related to these people. He knew nothing of his mother and, if he did, would have been too young to completely understand. And the only thing that comes away as odd with his father is the idea that he stayed and watched. But then, wasn't he locked in the room and it was 1973 so he didn't even have a Gameboy.


I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say (though I do agree he isn't the Butcher), but this somewhat applies to Henry as well. He just bought an apartment and wound up caught up in the entire Walter thing.

Quote:
I think the bad ending in Origins suggests the fact that when you kill a monster in Silent Hill, you actually kill a person in real life-which brings us to Vincent's quote about the monsters in SH3


Except we would have heard about mass murders; we know that some of the monsters from SH3 actually WERE humans, but they were the cult members transformed into monsters by Claudia's magic. Plus, Vincent's line struck (at least me) as more of a "You see them as monsters?! I see them as divine beings!" rather than anything else.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
I think the bad ending in Origins suggests the fact that when you kill a monster in Silent Hill, you actually kill a person in real life-which brings us to Vincent's quote about the monsters in SH3


This is completely impossible. Most of the monsters don't even act like humans, and are usually in places humans would never be. Besides, where's all the moving traffic on the road? Why would real humans just jaywalk and shit?

Vincent was joking, guys. Get over it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19399
Last seen at: #lfk
>Vincent was joking, guys. Get over it.
Not entirely.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
imo, travis' darker mental state is the Butcher. sorta like a part of him is projected.
But this game doesnt make sense too much, bcuz i think someone else saw the Butcher too, aside from travis. unless the memo in the Artheud Theatre was a joke or something.....

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
>Vincent was joking, guys. Get over it.
Not entirely.


Indeed, but for the most part? Yea, pretty much. His statement can't be applied to the entire SH universe.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
helldescent wrote:
imo, travis' darker mental state is the Butcher. sorta like a part of him is projected.
But this game doesnt make sense too much, bcuz i think someone else saw the Butcher too, aside from travis. unless the memo in the Artheud Theatre was a joke or something.....


I don't think the Butcher should have been present in the game.

IMO, I think he's the Red or Yellow God just like Pyramid Head, but I don't know how that would fit.

You rip off Pyramid Head, of course it isn't going to work out.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
simeonalo wrote:
helldescent wrote:
imo, travis' darker mental state is the Butcher. sorta like a part of him is projected.
But this game doesnt make sense too much, bcuz i think someone else saw the Butcher too, aside from travis. unless the memo in the Artheud Theatre was a joke or something.....


I don't think the Butcher should have been present in the game.

IMO, I think he's the Red or Yellow God just like Pyramid Head, but I don't know how that would fit.

You rip off Pyramid Head, of course it isn't going to work out.


Er, Pyramid Head wasn't a god at all; it was a manifestation of James' guilt.


Also, regardless of any fanservice the Butcher may be... Silent Hill 2 gives us a framework that actually fits in with it. We know the old executioners of Silent Hill had pyramid-shaped helmets on; executioner-type monsters in Silent Hill therefore can manifest themselves with pyramid-shaped helmets without being a "ripoff".

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http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The Butcher is Travis's Shadow; not a manifestation of his crimes, but a manifestation of what he fears becoming.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
Yuki wrote:
simeonalo wrote:
helldescent wrote:
imo, travis' darker mental state is the Butcher. sorta like a part of him is projected.
But this game doesnt make sense too much, bcuz i think someone else saw the Butcher too, aside from travis. unless the memo in the Artheud Theatre was a joke or something.....


I don't think the Butcher should have been present in the game.

IMO, I think he's the Red or Yellow God just like Pyramid Head, but I don't know how that would fit.

You rip off Pyramid Head, of course it isn't going to work out.


Er, Pyramid Head wasn't a god at all; it was a manifestation of James' guilt.


Also, regardless of any fanservice the Butcher may be... Silent Hill 2 gives us a framework that actually fits in with it. We know the old executioners of Silent Hill had pyramid-shaped helmets on; executioner-type monsters in Silent Hill therefore can manifest themselves with pyramid-shaped helmets without being a "ripoff".


Well, a lot of debates here suggest that Pyramid Head was a god who basically manifested itself into a creature looking like the old executioners symbolizing James' guilt and what-not.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
simeonalo wrote:
Yuki wrote:
simeonalo wrote:
helldescent wrote:
imo, travis' darker mental state is the Butcher. sorta like a part of him is projected.
But this game doesnt make sense too much, bcuz i think someone else saw the Butcher too, aside from travis. unless the memo in the Artheud Theatre was a joke or something.....


I don't think the Butcher should have been present in the game.

IMO, I think he's the Red or Yellow God just like Pyramid Head, but I don't know how that would fit.

You rip off Pyramid Head, of course it isn't going to work out.


Er, Pyramid Head wasn't a god at all; it was a manifestation of James' guilt.


Also, regardless of any fanservice the Butcher may be... Silent Hill 2 gives us a framework that actually fits in with it. We know the old executioners of Silent Hill had pyramid-shaped helmets on; executioner-type monsters in Silent Hill therefore can manifest themselves with pyramid-shaped helmets without being a "ripoff".


Well, a lot of debates here suggest that Pyramid Head was a god who basically manifested itself into a creature looking like the old executioners symbolizing James' guilt and what-not.



I'm going to admit that I have not read that thread, but I don't recall anything even hinting that Pyramid Head was a god in the games. D'you think you could please recap some of the points?

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: ''What are you doing, son?!''

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Old thread, I know, but I might have something to add.

Reading through this thread, I've had multiple thoughts regarding the bad ending and the Butcher.

The Butcher - someone said that the Butcher could have been something Travis feared becoming. I like that idea. After all, Helen was always going on about how Travis was a "devil child". That sort of babble would have had an effect on a small child, and given that he spent time in/was in Silent Hill and the Otherworld, Helen's delusions regarding her son, and her son's fears in becoming a monster, could have manifested as the Butcher. Of course, I don't think that's all there is to the Butcher. He could also encompass Travis' anger and emotions surrounding his parents and childhood (no-one would survive that childhood without being messed up). I honestly doubt that the Butcher was a serial killer aspect of Travis as some people have suggested, but that's just personal opinion based on the fact I think it would cheapen the game. :P

Travis being strapped down in the bad ending - I think this scene probably has more to do with the Order and Kaufmann than it does the Butcher and any serial killer leanings Travis may have. To me, this ending suggests that he wasn't lucky enough to escape after Alessa split her soul, and now the Order have him locked away (for now) in Alchemilla Hospital where he can't interfere further, or reveal their plans (not that anyone would believe him). I doubt they'd keep him alive and around for long though, even if they do have a sanitarium where they could dump him after drugging him.

Woman: "What are you talking about? I'm not your mamma. Please--No!" - There have been a few suggestions for this; he murdered a woman who reminded him of his mother, or he murdered a woman in the sanitarium who just so happened to be in same room where his mother was located when he saw her there as a child. As much as I dislike the monsters-are-actually-people theory, I think the latter makes more sense. From what we see, Travis seems to relive memories from his childhood at certain parts of the game; namely just before the boss fights between his mother and father. He could be caught up in his memories so much so that he follows along, but this time instead of being a defenceless child, he fights back, and kills an innocent woman who was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But then, that would contradict Lisa's lines in the sanitarium where she seems to be talking about Helen. If Helen's not in that room, and another woman is, then what the hell was Lisa on about?

Man: "Scuse me sir. Motel's closed for the season. Wait--! (screams)" - Again, it has been suggested that this was either the result of Travis being a serial killer, or him mistaking a motel worker for his father. Again, just like above, I like the latter suggestion. Again, Travis could be caught up in his memories, and wanders into the motel room they stayed in years before. His memories, the otherworld, and an innocent person being in the wrong place at the wrong time could explain this. I know that there are only a handful of people who see Travis while he's in the otherworld, but powerful memories and emotions could have pulled both the man and woman into the otherworld where Travis then saw them as monsters.

Travis' father: "What are you doing, son? Careful, daddy's--!" - This is a bit different to the other two. It's already been suggested that Travis probably killed his father, and even went so far as to hang his father for whatever reasons. Honestly, that idea doesn't really make much sense to me.
Honestly though, I can't really come up with anything for this. It could be a false memory as a result of guilt over Richard's suicide and Travis' inaction, but that doesn't seem right. This line is so much different to the other two. Why would this be a false memory if the other two are real?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: ''What are you doing, son?!''
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
The butcher is the subconscious fears and repressed memories that Travis has.
The town just manifests them into the monster.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Nov 2010
Notes left: 981
Last seen at: Kentucky
I do believe Travis was a serial killer.
Imo the game gives more than enough hints to indicate that is the case.
I think back especially to the part when Travis kills The Butcher... The way he takes The Butcher's own meat cleaver: He wields it slowly at first, eyes rolling, and in a snap he brings it down to finish The Butcher, violently with quick precision & force.

I think all of the dead bodies of monsters that Travis finds are memories of his real-life killings in Silent Hill. The one in the apartments, inside the Butcher Shop, outside the Butcher Shop, in the hospital, in the motel kitchen, all of the split open the same. A serial killers MO. Also, the way he reacts to them seems to hint on that, I think.

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