''What are you doing, son?!''
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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- AuraTwilight
- Historical Society Historian
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I just don't see why this one mutilated corpse is any more different from any other mutilated corpse we've seen since 1999.
I really think you are making light of this dummy thing, but I can't convince you of anything it seems.
If Travis KILLED ENOUGH PEOPLE TO BE A SERIAL KILLER, then he needs to know about it regardless of the ending. Clearly, he'd feel guilt about it if he suppressed the memory, since he nearly loses his shit over a stranger in a burning building, and totally flips his gourd over the suicide and/or insanity of his parents, for which he's not responsible. Hell, everyone else who enters the Otherworld gets the purgatory treatment over a single life. Why does Travis get off so easy?but wouldn't giving videos of Travis committing these acts be a little too obvious? It's a secondary ending so therefore they aren't going to make it that black and white. The bad ending isn't supposed to happen, it's what happens if Travis doesn't get a hold of himself.
Well, for one, nothing anywhere in the game, except that ending, gives so much of a hint about murder, while the entire theme of the game seems to be about self-acceptance/self-denial, and guilt over things you're not responsible for.I just can't help but think you are purposely working around the idea because you don't like the idea of Travis ever killing anyone. I'm just saying that on my second time through the game obtaining the bad ending, the first thing I thought was "He's been killing people."
Yea, well, people thought Dahlia was trying to summon Satan the first time through the first game, but they were wrong too. Since it's astoundingly obvious that Travis isn't a murderer, and because the Bad Ending is him becoming overcome by the Butcher, then experiencing hallucinations of murders that didn't happen makes complete contextual sense.That's what you hear him doing and you see him shaking his head like he doesn't want to remember it. I had absolutely no reason to think "Oh this is just him fantasizing about him killing people" because nothing indicates that while the audio genuinely depicts murders happening.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
As I've said before, the corpse is important because Travis is responsible for the way it appears. Are you sure you are renumbering the right part of the game?
and I think the reason Travis gets out of Silent Hill without punishment for his crimes is because he wasn't in his right mind while doing it. In the good ending, he overcomes it... and all is forgot while in the bad ending Travis remembers and is punished for it. The game also gives other evidence if your wiling to open your mind to it. All the photos you find while in the hotel could be examples of Travis's victims with their cause of death altered for impact (not to mention you see similar polaroid photos in the bed of Travis's truck...).
We just disagree. *shrugs*
and I think the reason Travis gets out of Silent Hill without punishment for his crimes is because he wasn't in his right mind while doing it. In the good ending, he overcomes it... and all is forgot while in the bad ending Travis remembers and is punished for it. The game also gives other evidence if your wiling to open your mind to it. All the photos you find while in the hotel could be examples of Travis's victims with their cause of death altered for impact (not to mention you see similar polaroid photos in the bed of Travis's truck...).
We just disagree. *shrugs*
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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- Location: Minnesota
If he was running around with pictures of his murder victims in his truck, he wouldn't have "forgotten" his murders, and would probably be in jail.GrievousGarland wrote:As I've said before, the corpse is important because Travis is responsible for the way it appears. Are you sure you are renumbering the right part of the game?
and I think the reason Travis gets out of Silent Hill without punishment for his crimes is because he wasn't in his right mind while doing it. In the good ending, he overcomes it... and all is forgot while in the bad ending Travis remembers and is punished for it. The game also gives other evidence if your wiling to open your mind to it. All the photos you find while in the hotel could be examples of Travis's victims with their cause of death altered for impact (not to mention you see similar polaroid photos in the bed of Travis's truck...).
We just disagree. *shrugs*
James wasn't in his right mind when
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he killed Mary.
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only one?
I suppose so. lol
Maybe the polaroids in his car were just an allusion to the ones that appear in the hotel.
No, I'm sure James was aware of what he was doing.
but like I said, this is a secondary ending, so I doubt the murders are even canon unless you get the bad ending. When you play through and get the good ending, nothing indicates him being a murderer while when you get the bad ending the pieces come together (the note, the Polaroids, the hospital dummy. Things that don't mean anything in a good play through) and Travis finally understands 'a terrible truth" about himself.
*scratches head* so I suppose that whether he is or isn't doesn't really matter in the long run. I just feel that when the player does get the bad ending the result is that Travis had been a serial killer the whole time.
Maybe the polaroids in his car were just an allusion to the ones that appear in the hotel.
No, I'm sure James was aware of what he was doing.
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He was trying to put her out of her misery, or however he wanted to rationalize it. Only when dealing with the after effects of his actions did his mentality go out the window.
*scratches head* so I suppose that whether he is or isn't doesn't really matter in the long run. I just feel that when the player does get the bad ending the result is that Travis had been a serial killer the whole time.
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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Yes? And your point is?Video Gamer wrote:Never before have the endings changed the events that happened prior to attaining the ending...
No matter what, James killed Mary, Harry was in a car crash, Heather was at the mall and used to be Cheryl and Alessa, and Henry was always a photographer living in an apartment.
Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.
- AuraTwilight
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So fucking what? You keep bringing this up, but it doesn't mean anything for anyone's theory. All it means is that Travis's solving of a puzzle mutilated a corpse in an alternate world and it fucking freaked him out. If you have no other evidence, move along. You have a bad habit of arguing from emotion instead of logic.As I've said before, the corpse is important because Travis is responsible for the way it appears. Are you sure you are renumbering the right part of the game?
Yea, because James was totally in his right mind and wasn't suppressing anything.and I think the reason Travis gets out of Silent Hill without punishment for his crimes is because he wasn't in his right mind while doing it. In the good ending, he overcomes it... and all is forgot while in the bad ending Travis remembers and is punished for it. The game also gives other evidence if your wiling to open your mind to it.
So Travis killed CLEOPATRA HERSELF with a snake? Alright, cool, he's a time traveller.All the photos you find while in the hotel could be examples of Travis's victims with their cause of death altered for impact (not to mention you see similar polaroid photos in the bed of Travis's truck...).
Yea it does, because characterization doesn't work that way and even Climax isn't stupid enough to disregard that. Either Travis is a murderer in both endings, or he isn't.Yes? And your point is?
Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
Grrr... good godddess.
The corpse is important because Travis doesn't get that he's the one that mutilated it! You can try to explain it with the mirror mechanic, but that doesn't fly with me. It was in the same exact spot, in the same exact room, on the other side of the mirror. An idiot could have connected it yet Travis didn't! So are you calling Travis an idiot? If travis could be that oblivious to something so obvious then he certainly could be doing things he wouldn't normally while in the otherworld.
and the pictures could be representing what Travis did metaphorically, you know.... just like SH always does. They aren't going to show a picture of him strangling a women then write on the back the date and "Travis strangling a woman." SH isn't going to be that blunt and forward with anything. It hasn't ever been.
and I was trying to make us both happy and it didn't work. lol
I personally think he was a murderer in both endings... but was trying to make things work for the both of us by splitting the endings like that. T_T
The corpse is important because Travis doesn't get that he's the one that mutilated it! You can try to explain it with the mirror mechanic, but that doesn't fly with me. It was in the same exact spot, in the same exact room, on the other side of the mirror. An idiot could have connected it yet Travis didn't! So are you calling Travis an idiot? If travis could be that oblivious to something so obvious then he certainly could be doing things he wouldn't normally while in the otherworld.
and the pictures could be representing what Travis did metaphorically, you know.... just like SH always does. They aren't going to show a picture of him strangling a women then write on the back the date and "Travis strangling a woman." SH isn't going to be that blunt and forward with anything. It hasn't ever been.
and I was trying to make us both happy and it didn't work. lol
I personally think he was a murderer in both endings... but was trying to make things work for the both of us by splitting the endings like that. T_T
- AuraTwilight
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All SH protagonists except Heather are fucking retarded, so yea, I am. Even if he wasn't, it's a supernatural event; it'd take anyone not ready for it a second to click, and even still, it doesn't mean the corpse is important. Heather almost puked when she saw her first monster and had a freakout when no other protagonist did, does that mean she had a specific fear of being eaten? Uh, no.The corpse is important because Travis doesn't get that he's the one that mutilated it! You can try to explain it with the mirror mechanic, but that doesn't fly with me. It was in the same exact spot, in the same exact room, on the other side of the mirror. An idiot could have connected it yet Travis didn't! So are you calling Travis an idiot? If travis could be that oblivious to something so obvious then he certainly could be doing things he wouldn't normally while in the otherworld.
It's also worth noting that Cleopatra's death was a suicide, as was Mr. Grady of a "broken heart." Given the lack of details on the other deaths, it's safe to say that, by precedent, they're also symbolic of suicide, relating either to the WHOLE REASON TRAVIS IS THERE (Daddy) or in some part to his own apparent deathwish. Maybe both, since the Butcher is fought in the hotel.and the pictures could be representing what Travis did metaphorically, you know.... just like SH always does. They aren't going to show a picture of him strangling a women then write on the back the date and "Travis strangling a woman." SH isn't going to be that blunt and forward with anything. It hasn't ever been.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
Mr. Grady was included in the polaroids because Travis blamed himself for his death, remember? Cleopatra was the only real suicide in the bunch according to Travis... the rest are not indicative of suicide in the least bit.It's also worth noting that Cleopatra's death was a suicide, as was Mr. Grady of a "broken heart." Given the lack of details on the other deaths, it's safe to say that, by precedent, they're also symbolic of suicide, relating either to the WHOLE REASON TRAVIS IS THERE (Daddy) or in some part to his own apparent deathwish. Maybe both, since the Butcher is fought in the hotel.
and you just don't like the dummy idea. It's fine. It's understandable why you would like to ignore it. Explaining it by calling the main character an idiot doesn't seem like a very solid way of trumping an argument, but do as you like.
also saying it was just phenomenal doesn't slide either, because I was able to figure it out as soon as I saw it and I'm in no way clairvoyant.
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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"I killed Mary."GrievousGarland wrote:
and the pictures could be representing what Travis did metaphorically, you know.... just like SH always does. They aren't going to show a picture of him strangling a women then write on the back the date and "Travis strangling a woman." SH isn't going to be that blunt and forward with anything. It hasn't ever been.
Mr. Grady committed suicide. Although Travis probably feels guilty over his father's death, the inteniton of the photos is pretty obvious. Ignoring the one that is obviously suicidal (Snakebite) and then saying the rest (Knife, shotgun, broken heart) are from a "serial killer" or from guilt doesn't really make much sense. People force themselves to bleed out all the time. People shoot themselves with shotguns all the time.
And of course, people commit suicide from personal trauma all the time.
The theme is suicide, not serial killing, unless Travis is 1: A time-traveler and 2: a snake-charmer.
The body part, is kind of obvious: It's implied that he did it, but I think that was 1: a manifestation of guilt, on his part, and 2: a nice way to freak out the player.
ahh... alright. *shrugs*
But in actuality.... I haven't seen those pictures from origins in a long time... so I suppose that they were all suicide. >.<
I just know that from what I get from the game, I consider Travis to be a serial killer. It just screams it to me. I see no reason why to believe that those were just fantasies he was experiencing in the bad ending rather than actually events. (The dummy means a lot to me too, but no one believes me. T_T)
and the fact that he dons the clothes of an "infamous serial killer" after the fact just seals the deal.
But in actuality.... I haven't seen those pictures from origins in a long time... so I suppose that they were all suicide. >.<
I just know that from what I get from the game, I consider Travis to be a serial killer. It just screams it to me. I see no reason why to believe that those were just fantasies he was experiencing in the bad ending rather than actually events. (The dummy means a lot to me too, but no one believes me. T_T)
and the fact that he dons the clothes of an "infamous serial killer" after the fact just seals the deal.
- AuraTwilight
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Indeed, and Travis' altruistic nature makes him blame himself for just about any death he can't prevent, such as Alessa, as far as he knew.Mr. Grady was included in the polaroids because Travis blamed himself for his death, remember? Cleopatra was the only real suicide in the bunch according to Travis... the rest are not indicative of suicide in the least bit.
Characters have idiotic responses to everything. Travis going "omg who did this?" doesn't mean that the Otherworld is trying to tell him he's a murderer any more than the Otherworld telling Harry he's afraid of ghosts because he expresses curiosity at a radio emitting EVP.and you just don't like the dummy idea. It's fine. It's understandable why you would like to ignore it. Explaining it by calling the main character an idiot doesn't seem like a very solid way of trumping an argument, but do as you like.
Big ass fallacy. You've played other Silent Hill games, and KNEW beforehand that something pretty fucking freaky was going to happen involving mirror worlds. Travis doesn't have this luxury.also saying it was just phenomenal doesn't slide either, because I was able to figure it out as soon as I saw it and I'm in no way clairvoyant.
Nothing except those visions implies Serial Killing, and as I said, they have alternate meanings even aside from the fantasy idea I proposed. Have you read my Shadow Archetype and Collective Consciousness thread? I think it's in General Quicklinks.I just know that from what I get from the game, I consider Travis to be a serial killer. It just screams it to me. I see no reason why to believe that those were just fantasies he was experiencing in the bad ending rather than actually events. (The dummy means a lot to me too, but no one believes me. T_T)
lolwut?and the fact that he dons the clothes of an "infamous serial killer" after the fact just seals the deal.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
hnmm... that's what the game says... *waves around psp*
it's in the description of the butcher outfit. The butcher is apparently an infamous serial killer.... Travis has his outfit for some reason... hmmm.... >.>
and Travis himself is a very nice person, you can't say the same for his dark side though.
it's in the description of the butcher outfit. The butcher is apparently an infamous serial killer.... Travis has his outfit for some reason... hmmm.... >.>
and Travis himself is a very nice person, you can't say the same for his dark side though.
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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but this is the only costume that is directly in reference to a character in the game, the butcher. Plus the accolade indicates the discovery of a "terrible truth."Video Gamer wrote:Travis also has a jogging outfit, Vincent's outfit, a special ops outfit, and a biker outfit.
So he's a serial killing cult member that's part of the special ops unit and rides motorcycles in his spare time?
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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The biker outfit directly references Travis. "Sometimes I like to don these leathers and ride my bike into the sunset..." or something like that.
Arguing the storyline using extras in the game isn't so hot an idea. That's like saying Master Chief is Orpheus, incarnate, because you can get an achievement with that name in Halo 3.
Arguing the storyline using extras in the game isn't so hot an idea. That's like saying Master Chief is Orpheus, incarnate, because you can get an achievement with that name in Halo 3.
Well, who is to say that Travis hasn't ever ridden a bike?Video Gamer wrote:The biker outfit directly references Travis. "Sometimes I like to don these leathers and ride my bike into the sunset..." or something like that.
Arguing the storyline using extras in the game isn't so hot an idea. That's like saying Master Chief is Orpheus, incarnate, because you can get an achievement with that name in Halo 3.
and I'm only referring to to the ones directly unlocked from the endings. The costume you get from the ending is very related to the ending itself so therefore I think it's worth mentioning.
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- Rosewater Park Attendant
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...Saving Alessa gives him leather clothes...Why?GrievousGarland wrote:Well, who is to say that Travis hasn't ever ridden a bike?Video Gamer wrote:The biker outfit directly references Travis. "Sometimes I like to don these leathers and ride my bike into the sunset..." or something like that.
Arguing the storyline using extras in the game isn't so hot an idea. That's like saying Master Chief is Orpheus, incarnate, because you can get an achievement with that name in Halo 3.
and I'm only referring to to the ones directly unlocked from the endings. The costume you get from the ending is very related to the ending itself so therefore I think it's worth mentioning.