Otherworld

[Sgt Phantomizer]

I posted this question on another forum, but nobody answered me this question, not even the SH fanatics, so i'm trying here now.

My knowledge of SH is quite limited, i myself only own SH2 and SH: Origins (also have SH3 on the PC, but i refuse to play it if it's not on my PS2), so most of what i know comes from those games, whats i've been told and what i've read online.

From what i understand, Origin's "Otherworld" is a manifestation of Travis's fears, it's something thats in his mind, that it doesn't actually exist. Thats all fine, i perfectly understand that (unless i'm misinterpreting something) but this is whats got me wondering, if the Otherworld is just in Travis's mind, how come he can get in and come back out with items he finds in the Otherworld? supposedly, said items should be in Travis's mind.....no?

[AuraTwilight]

The Otherworld is an alternate plane of existence, another dimension you could say, that overlaps with the town of Silent Hill. When people slip into it, it creates an Otherworld copy of the real world made from and based off of the person's mind. So Travis is in another dimension where the monsters and items are physically real, but they were created from his imagination and can still hurt him and such.

Both the dark world and the foggy world are part of this Otherworld; the real Silent Hill in the real world of the game is full of people, so both worlds were see are alternate dimensions.

[Jonipoon]

>they were created from his imagination
Not all. Half of the monsters in the game are imagined by Alessa.

[The Adversary]

The otherworld in Silent Hill: Origins is a plot-hole: Its existence cannot be b/c Alessa has yet to cause "the large-scale shift to the otherworld that occurred in the first game" that resulted in the town becoming "a great catalyst for the manifestation of peoples' unconscious minds" (Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle).

Saying the otherworld in SH:O "is a manifestation of Travis's fears" is incorrect.

[Droo]

Except it's not, because Origins is a retcon.

In Silent Hill 1, there were no multiple sects of The Order. There was no calling of guilty souls to the town. There was no Valtiel. There was no Ashfield or Pleasant River or Paleville or Shepherd's Glen. Brahms was the next town over.

As a series continues, things get changed.

Besides, all that Lost Memories says in the passage quoted by Tommy is that there was a large scale shift to the otherworld in the first game. This is still true. In Origins, the Otherworld was Travis and Alessa's (by extension) alone.

The Otherworld is a manifestation of Travis' inner demons associated with his mother's delusions and his guilt/trauma stemming from that. The Otherworld was then co-opted by Alessa and used by her in SH1. Her doing so made the Otherworld from merely Travis' personal experience into another plane of reality, separate from Reality and Foggy Silent Hill, due to her uncanny psychic abilities.

Lost Memories is obsolete. It was true when it came out, but the truth has now changed. Much like the New Testament of the Bible undoes many of the rules laid out in Leviticus, subsequent games following LM's publication have rendered LM moot in certain areas. Not entirely, but partially.

Canon is malleable. Fiction is not real. Silent Hill is not real. Things can be changed in a long-running series and indeed things have. Disregard Tommy's incessant adherence to orthodoxy.

[DamienPales]

Silent Hill 2 claimed that the town had always been funny even before the first game, anyway. Whether that means that the Otherworld had always been present in some form or another, or whether that means something completely different, is up to the players' imaginations.

The Little Baroness, anyone?

[Droo]

The town has always been funny. The events of SH1 greatly amplified the energies of the region as a result. I don't dispute that. But weird shit went down for a long time before the events of SH1.

Something happened in the early days of the town to make the settlers flee the town, remember.

[DamienPales]

And don't forget the Native Americans who were the first settlers to live there. They even called the place "The Place of Silent Spirits." They worshiped the place because of all the strange and mystical things that would happen there.

To modify a quote from Samuel Jackson in 1408, "It's an evil, fucking town."

[The Adversary]

Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle is only "obsolete" (only not at all) b/c you've chosen to accept Climax's ignorance and disregard for storytelling. No one is arguing Silent Hill has been fuck'd up for decades. The problem is the extent of the otherworld, and its non-existence as we see it in Silent Hill: Origins until after Silent Hill.

This isn't a retcon. This is a botched story.

Disregard Droo's inability to understand.

[DamienPales]

The Silent Hill Chronicle never says that the Otherworld didn't exist before the first game. It just says that it was never a "large-scale shift to the Otherworld" until the first game.

[Droo]

Yes, because the Otherworld DIDN'T exist before SH1 for ANYONE until Travis came along, it was manifested, Alessa stole it, and then made it something more than just a personal delusion.

[The Adversary]

Only there's nothing w/ which to back yr claim up.

>The Silent Hill Chronicle never says that the Otherworld didn't exist before the first game.
Similarly, the book neglects to mention the otherworld's absence. As such, from what it does mention, we can conclude the time of the otherworld's creation.

[DamienPales]

No, from what Lost Memories mentions, you can conclude that Alessa amplifies the Otherworld in Silent Hill 1, not outright creates it out of thin air.

[Droo]

Only there's nothing w/ which to back yr claim up.

Origins strongly implies it. Until another guidebook comes along to hold my hand and explain everything to me, I guess I'll just have to use my brain to draw inferences. You know, like SH fans did BEFORE that book came out.

Oh dear. What a scary new world it is without a book telling me what to think. We should hide.

[AuraTwilight]

>they were created from his imagination
Not all. Half of the monsters in the game are imagined by Alessa.

Half? Hardly. Still, you get the general gist of it.

Also, am I the only one who thought that quote was referring the town's apparently recently developed ability to call people with darkness in the heart?

[nobody]

Also, am I the only one who thought that quote was referring the town's apparently recently developed ability to call people with darkness in the heart?

No, you're not. I thought that too.

Yes, because the Otherworld DIDN'T exist before SH1 for ANYONE until Travis came along

Really? Someone already mentioned the Little Baroness, the ship that vanished in 1918 without a trace. I thought it might had disappeared into an Otherworld.

[Sgt Phantomizer]

Thanks, but i think i now have more questions instead of an answer lol

Love it when people start trying to correct each other

[AuraTwilight]

Really? Someone already mentioned the Little Baroness, the ship that vanished in 1918 without a trace. I thought it might had disappeared into an Otherworld.

Tom sees the Otherworld as simply referring to the Dark Rusty World and that the Foggy World is a separate plane that always existed. It's probably my D&D influences talking, but I always saw the Dark World, Foggy World, and all the subsets therein such as James' World, Alessa's World, Angela's World etc. as being different "layers" of the same plane.

[nobody]

Ok, thanks. This clarifies certain posts, and brings up much more questions... hehe

[Droo]

I am of the belief that Foggy Silent Hill has always existed, and that's where the Little Baroness got sucked into. The Otherworld (or Alternate Silent Hill as I prefer to call it) is something else entirely. It is two layers of reality away from ours, whereas Foggy is only one.