Are Pyramid Head and the Butcher Related? *SPOILERS*

[rm2kking]

Continued over from the "PH is Walter's dad?" thread.

Heres my copy-and-pasted post that describes my thoughts on the matter:

Just for the record, I know it's just fan service, and I know the difference between a butcher and an executioner. But in-universe there must be some significance to it. I'm just going to go ahead and assume that the only connection between them is their manifestation of guilt, the stalking, and the resemblance to the Civil War executioners. It only makes sense. Nobody, besides Auratwilight, has offered a valid in-game explanation. If the Closers and Mandarans, two very different enemies, can be linked to eachother by the developers due only to their similar appearance and attack styles (sharp thingy coming out of arm-mouths/slits) then there is no logical reason why we cannot assume that PH and the Butcher are connected in a simmilar manner.

Does anybody at least get what I'm trying to get at here? Do you understand my logic behind this?

In-game, there would have to be some reason why the otherworld would manifest two creatures so similar in appearance, armament and attack style. And there is; PH and the Butcher both serve to punish the protagonist for whatever they are guilty for (and I say for not of as this is self-imposed guilt). That and the Executioners. And if some cultists can dress like the executioners, theres no reason why a guilt-incarnated Butcher-themed monster cannot as well.

Please, someone think about it in-universe, and stop offering me explainations like "because it drives the plot" or "because it's fan service" because if we are going to resign ourselves to that then theres no reason at all to seek explanation of symbolism for any of the copy-cat monsters when we can just assume that the faceless nurses are all just SH2 fan service. The fact is that they are, but that doesn't stop you from analyzing them does it? Why is the butcher any different?

So far we've seen many monsters appear in simmilar forms because they represent simmilar things. That's how the otherworld works, the designers have established this in the Book of Lost Memories with their discussion of the connection between Mandarins and Closers. The Butcher is no different.

[QuestionSleepZz]

I heard somewhere that the Butcher is Pyramid Head's older brother, I also heard that he's Pyramid Head's Dad, but I personaly don't belive that.

[rm2kking]

And I doubt anyone else does either, hah.

[AuraTwilight]

I already answered this question, why make a new thread?

[rm2kking]

I made it before you answered, because that thread is not an origins thread, it's a SH4 thread.

Great answer though

[Jonipoon]

For the record, I'll repost both posts of Aura and Harry's Girl.

I think discussion is a lot easier under the theory that the Otherworld acts as not only a mirror to reflect the mind, but a sponge, recording memories of what's manifested. Thus, previous manifestations can be redesigned, reused, reinterpreted, etc.

Where as PH and The Butcher are similar physically, but not in purpose. PH is a representation of James' guilt, his need to punish himself because he believes that he deserves it. Because he killed Mary. He feels that he deserves to be hunted down, torutured and killed. (guilt)
The Butcher is Travis' representation of an inner fear that he is a murderer. His mother tried to kill him and he found his father dead. He was a messed up kid and as far as he has gotten, he still has the feeling deep inside that he is killing everyone around him. That anyone that gets close to him either wants to kill him, or he secretly wants to kill them. (fear)

>If the Closers and Mandarans, two very different enemies, can be linked to eachother by the developers due only to their similar appearance and attack styles (sharp thingy coming out of arm-mouths/slits) then there is no logical reason why we cannot assume that PH and the Butcher are connected in a simmilar manner

The Closers and Mandarins were created by the same person, whereas The Butcher and Pyramid Head were created by two different art directors.
It is never stated that the Closers and Mandarins are the same creature. However, an interesting fact to remember is that Masahiro Ito created both of them.

>then theres no reason at all to seek explanation of symbolism
Good point―have you thought of that earlier? Not everything in Silent Hill must symbolize something.

[reap28]

I think climax wanted PH but they didn't get the rights so they made the butcher

[alone in the town]

That doesn't make one iota of sense.

[reap28]

I mean like they aren't allowed to use him konami said no you can not use PH so they made the butcher instead

[alone in the town]

I cannot imagine any possible scenario in which that could even be remotely true.

Considering that the r.p.t. does make a cameo appearance at the beginning of the game and all that.

[QuestionSleepZz]

Pyramid Head is in Origins?
Mind telling me where? I'd love to see this!

[alone in the town]

There's a portrait of him in the Gillespie house.



He's also very prominent of the cover of the Silent Hill Zero official soundtrack:

[QuestionSleepZz]

Wow I didn't notice that picture in the house at all. And i saw the picture of the soundtrack before, but I thought it was just a picture not at all related to anything official.
Thanks

[AuraTwilight]

Plus, why the hell would Climax be allowed to use every other goddamn Silent Hill property, but not Pyramid Head? That's like saying, "Alright, you can make make a Transformers movie, but no Optimus Prime allowed."

[rm2kking]

Yeah that makes no sense. I did see that painting in the Gillespie house. I love little cameos like that.
Honestly what the butcher struck me as, was that they wanted PH in the game but didn't want to overuse him, which, with SH2, SH the movie, SHH, SH the arcade, and the godawful comics, is getting damn close to happening anyway.

[QuestionSleepZz]

Yeah I don't think he should be anywhere but Silent Hill 2, and possibly the movie. Because it's not really canon to the series itself sooooo..... >_>

[rm2kking]

I do Love the design in the movie though. I kind of hated it at first but it's grown on me, and I think it's badass looking now. I was disappointed about his treatment in Homecoming. That awesome looking PH model and I never got to fight it...

[pyramidheadkiller007]

If Pyramid head is manifested from James' guilt, that's why he is in silent Hill right? Unless Pyramid head is called on because of James. I dunno, but maybe the Butcher is P.H.'s predecessor. Hmmmm....
I should finish SH2 before i comment anymore on P.H. >.<

[Silent One]

I've assumed that PH, while real in some form in history, was manifested in the form we see him in in SH2 by James. So in that sense, I believe that Travis also manifested the Butcher in the same way.

The Butcher is an alteration on PH. Basically they are the same general being, but altered to suit the hosts particular issues and troubles.

At least that was my take on it.

[AuraTwilight]

*Shadow Archetype.