Are Pyramid Head and the Butcher Related? *SPOILERS*

[valiturus]

I think they're related in the sense that they look similar to each other and are specifically "created" for the main protagonist of the game, just as P-Head was "created" for James. I doubt that they have any immediate connections though.

[Silent One]

*Shadow Archetype.

Haven't read his full write up but I believe he has a point on this one.

[Scanman22]

I have a feeling Climax wanted to use Pyramid Head but then they and Konami decided against it for a few reasons.
1. Red Pyramid appearing in Origins would throw things off story-wise. Silent Hill 2 needs to remain his/it's first appearance.
2. Red Pyramid is suppose to be James specific and the hardcore fans would have a problem with him/it showing up for Travis also.
3. Hardcore fans already voiced their opinion on him being in the movie as Dark Alessa's henchman.
4. Too much Red Pyramid in Silent Hill would establish him as the town "killer" such as Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers, etc... This would detract from the mystery of Silent Hill and P-Head would no longer be scary at all....
5. Double Helix seemed to have "won" the bid on having a Pyramid Head in their game. Reasons probably being - A.) On Next Gen Consoles so he would look better than the PSP/PS2! B.) SHV takes place after SH2 obviously so it would be a returning cameo and not his first appearance timeline-wise!

Either way, too much Red Pyramid (whether you call him a "Boogeyman" or not; use the movie design of him or not) is a bad thing in my opinion. It takes away from the "specialness" he held in SH2! Not to mention his scare factor has sank by being in 2 games and 1 film already.... having him in origins also would be the last nail in his coffin.

[AuraTwilight]

Though I mostly agree with you, who says SH2 has to be Pyramid Head's first appearance? Despite what fans menstruate all over the internet, James did not invent him.

[Silent One]

Though I mostly agree with you, who says SH2 has to be Pyramid Head's first appearance? Despite what fans menstruate all over the internet, James did not invent him.

This is true to an extent. The being that PH was born from was alive looooong before James came to town. However I have heard that the PH being the James manifests is a little different from the figure that lived long ago.

So in a sense you could argue that he did invent THAT version of it. *shrugs*

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, but then you could say the Bogeyman is a version of the being that got invented by Shepherd's Glenn, and the version seen in any other game was invented by whoever conjured him in those, and yadda yadda, and it becomes totally irrelevant and pointless to bring up James at all.

It's worth noting that back when SH2 was released, everyone thought Walter saw Pyramid Head before SH4 elaborated on/retconned the issue, so there was never this pretense of PH being a James only monster until people started whining and bitching when the movie and the Arcade and Origins and Homecoming came out. Double Standard, much?

[Harrys_Girl]

It's worth noting that back when SH2 was released, everyone thought Walter saw Pyramid Head before SH4 elaborated on/retconned the issue, so there was never this pretense of PH being a James only monster until people started whining and bitching when the movie and the Arcade and Origins and Homecoming came out. Double Standard, much?

While I completely agree w/ this point, it is still a horse of a different color to talk about PH and see him. We never saw Walter see PH, but it is indicated nonetheless. We also never see, what was his name, the director of The Temptest in Origins see PH, just him talking about The Punisher. I love when other characters mention seeing him around, because there is the mystery, but when I gotta see him all the time, it just loses everything it had going for it.

[AuraTwilight]

While I completely agree w/ this point, it is still a horse of a different color to talk about PH and see him. We never saw Walter see PH, but it is indicated nonetheless. We also never see, what was his name, the director of The Temptest in Origins see PH, just him talking about The Punisher. I love when other characters mention seeing him around, because there is the mystery, but when I gotta see him all the time, it just loses everything it had going for it.

That's a pretty nitpicky point, especially since the complainers would probably still baw and scream and whine if Homecoming mentioned the Bogeyman/Pyramid Head anyway.

[rm2kking]

Any appearance PH makes besides his initial one in SH2 is bound to get people riled up. The obvious explanation is that Silent Hill seems to be able to reuse or maybe somehow manifest simmilar negativity into simmilar forms. People need to accept this and go over the facts before declaring that PH belongs only to James.

[Yuki]

Um... I could've sworn that SH2's Pyramid Head was the manifestation of James's guilt. Therefore, that incarnation of PH could only appear to James.

However, I also remember reading and seeing in the games that the executioners of Silent Hill used to wear pyramid-shaped helmets, similar to Pyramid Head. People that appeared similar to PH were the Silent Hill punishers; while James' particular manifestation of PH is his and only his, monsters similar to them could appear.

[Axel_98]

Any appearance PH makes besides his initial one in SH2 is bound to get people riled up. The obvious explanation is that Silent Hill seems to be able to reuse or maybe somehow manifest simmilar negativity into simmilar forms. People need to accept this and go over the facts before declaring that PH belongs only to James.

Well, if SH gets another guilty character then RPT could come back as the justifier right? amiright guise? ^^

[liquidus118]

Yeah that makes no sense. I did see that painting in the Gillespie house. I love little cameos like that.
Honestly what the butcher struck me as, was that they wanted PH in the game but didn't want to overuse him, which, with SH2, SH the movie, SHH, SH the arcade, and the godawful comics, is getting damn close to happening anyway.

(Since this is the first time I've had the fortune of talking about SH to people who know much about it I kind of ramble a bit so rm2kking don't take this as aimed at you)

Close to? As far as I'm concerned using him in anything that isn't James related is over-use (So everything so far except SH2 itself and the upcoming movie - or more likely terrible dumbing down - of it). After all you can't have PH - a product of James imagination (As far as I'm concerned, not reffering to the executioners of SH in general here) without James can you? Maybe in a few extreme cases it would be plausible but his apperances in the SH Movie and Homecoming are pretty stupid. Though I know Alex's guilt is similar to James' it probably wouldn't manifest itself so identically, regardless of the Town maybe having the ability to 're-use' creatures from previous people.


PS - Woot my first proper post on here! Looking forward to getting proven wrong in every way.

[AuraTwilight]

Close to? As far as I'm concerned using him in anything that isn't James related is over-use (So everything so far except SH2 itself and the upcoming movie - or more likely terrible dumbing down - of it). After all you can't have PH - a product of James imagination (As far as I'm concerned, not reffering to the executioners of SH in general here) without James can you?

Until Silent Hill 4 retconned it, everyone thought that Walter Sullivan saw Pyramid Head, too. No one complained about him being a James-only monster THEN. Plus, James didn't even invent Pyramid Head, he just used the image to punish himself with. What's to keep someone else from doing the same?

Though I know Alex's guilt is similar to James' it probably wouldn't manifest itself so identically, regardless of the Town maybe having the ability to 're-use' creatures from previous people.

Why? Do you have an actual reasoning besides "I hate it, so therefore it can't happen"? Who knows, maybe the power of the town not only manifests, but records thoughts? James finds some relics of Alessa's manifestations from SH1 afterall.

[Yuki]

Close to? As far as I'm concerned using him in anything that isn't James related is over-use (So everything so far except SH2 itself and the upcoming movie - or more likely terrible dumbing down - of it). After all you can't have PH - a product of James imagination (As far as I'm concerned, not reffering to the executioners of SH in general here) without James can you?

Until Silent Hill 4 retconned it, everyone thought that Walter Sullivan saw Pyramid Head, too. No one complained about him being a James-only monster THEN. Plus, James didn't even invent Pyramid Head, he just used the image to punish himself with. What's to keep someone else from doing the same?

This. The Pyramid Head that James himself saw was his personal punisher; however, people with pyramid-shaped helmets and large knives were punishers from Silent Hill, and therefore can be involved in multiple peoples' Otherworlds, albeit with different designs.