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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Aug 2010
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Biccard wrote:
I will find the link later today, I'm a little busy right now. But Devin Shatsky said that Downpour has been in development for nearly 3 years, which means it had been in production for nearly 2 years when it Wwas announced. So who knows how many Silent Hill games is in the making RIGHT NOW :D Nice thought.

Huh. That has actually given me more hope for Dounpour than anything else has. Nice to kow they've been at it a while.

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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2008
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Honestly, the game should've just focused on Travis. He had tremendous potential for a mind-warped game, bordering on End of Evangelion. Sadly, his tale was bogged down by the whole cult crud.

Don't get me wrong, him rescuing Alessa was epicly heroic, but, the entire event didn't need to occur. Everyone was more than satisfied with her just surviving the fire, instead of being saved by some random trucker.

~Drake

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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^Yeah, but then what the hell would the point be in calling it Silent Hill Origins, or it even being a prequel? IMO, the game focuses too damn much on Travis. Climax was supposed to make a prequel to SH1. A prequel should focus on the events leading up to SH1, but for some reason they decided to cram in an SH2 style story. All of Travis's mommy/daddy issues did was snatch screen time away from the prequel stuff that the game should have been about.

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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2010
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^ Some ties to SH3 and maybe featuring a younger Claudia, Vincent, or even Walter, that could have helped tie it down to the SH universe in my opinion.

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I love the Silent Hill Series. The games: Homecoming, Origins, and Shattered Memories, did nothing wrong whatsoever, they were developed well, and did things different. Just because they were not by Team Silent doesn't mean that they're bad games. I believe in this series. I believe that one day, we can have a game that will make all Silent Hill fans Happy. I believe that Silent Hill Downpour can achieve this.
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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
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_Drake_ wrote:
[Travis] had tremendous potential for a mind-warped game, bordering on End of Evangelion.

:shock:

Er, not that I'm dismissing what you said, there, but where are you coming from?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Mar 2010
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_Drake_ wrote:
He had tremendous potential for a mind-warped game, bordering on End of Evangelion.

I feel sick.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Disgusting.



I don't know if it would be to that extent, but I really wish the focus had been shifted to his story instead of Alessa.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Now someone needs to draw Giant Naked Heather.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
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It will either be the Ark that saves mankind, or the Demon that destroys us all.

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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2008
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KiramidHead wrote:
^Yeah, but then what the hell would the point be in calling it Silent Hill Origins, or it even being a prequel? IMO, the game focuses too damn much on Travis. Climax was supposed to make a prequel to SH1. A prequel should focus on the events leading up to SH1, but for some reason they decided to cram in an SH2 style story. All of Travis's mommy/daddy issues did was snatch screen time away from the prequel stuff that the game should have been about.


Silent Hill 1 needed no prequel. It explained quite excellently, on how Alessa's torment came to be and the events leading up to Cheryl's creation. Anything else was unnecessary, a form of visual purple prose.

The Origins subtitle would've referred to Travis's Origins. Just as "Silent Hill 4: The Room" refers to Henry's apartment, Homecoming refers to Alex's return, and Shattered Memories refers to the broken and misplaced memories inside the game, which can change form on different playthroughs.

Lastly, don't blame Climax, at least not the European division it currently is comprised of. The American division made most of the game, with the European division picking up and assembling the remains into a good, yet could've been more, Silent Hill.

Kenji:
I am essentially saying that the psychological aspects of Origins have tremendous potential rivaling the known traumatizing mind-fucks of history.
Just imagine, Travis has to fight an enemy that screams a distorted version of his mother's scream as she tried to kill him. It's eyes, nose, and gaping maw spewing forth maggots while emanating a horrid odor (symbolizing the gas she tried to kill him with). It's sickly putrid form, skeletal and caged, screaming at "Baby Boy Travis" to come back and die.

~Drake

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
_Drake_ wrote:
The Origins subtitle would've referred to Travis's Origins. Just as "Silent Hill 4: The Room" refers to Henry's apartment, Homecoming refers to Alex's return
Only that "Origins" refers to Cheryl's creation and the events that lead to it, which is our gameplay during the game. Travis is just a condition. "The Room" title refers to Henry's place, however the main meaning of it is Walter's Holy Mother. Although Homecoming recalls "coming home", it's really referred to the 150th Anniversary and its importance for the cult's history.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Only that "Origins" refers to Cheryl's creation and the events that lead to it, which is our gameplay during the game.


Only because the game was written that way, dude. Change it and Origins could've referred to Travis' past. That's his point.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Only because the game was written that way, dude. Change it and Origins could've referred to Travis' past. That's his point.

Change it and SH could have referred to an ex mercenary that came to Silent Hill in look for velociraptors evolved into aliens.

Still, his point doesn't really make sense. If Alessa's origin was sufficiently delimited in SH1, as he said, it wouldn't need any prequel. However, Travis' origins also wouldn't make sense. Without Alessa's powers it wouldn't manifest itself anyhow. Moreover, an important element in Origins is the analogy between Alessa and Travis. What I'm saying is that Travis' story is not just thrown in Origins to make it more colorful. There is a fixed reason why Alessa choosed that specific trucker to be her pawn. The Origins title doesn't become a reference to Travis' origins just by changing the story or by dislodging Alessa from it. The development of Travis' story is not indipendent.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
The development of Travis' story is not indipendent.


It does if you write it to be that way. You seem to think that what we got is the only possible way things could have been presented.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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Okay. I get that: different aproach to the development changes all. However, the "origins" theme and the "Origins" title wouldn't be logic. Without an inset like Alessa's story the word "Origins" doesn't make sense.

You could then write it differently to make Travis' story valuable. However, it's then just a sequel, not a prequel. If things were that easy, SH2: Restless Dreams could hame been change into "Silent Hill: Origins", 'cause related to James' past, SH4 into "Silent Hill: Origins", 'cause related to Walter's past, and so on..
I'm getting your point, but you're missing mine.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
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^
People are thinking into it way too much.
It's called Origins because it's the game leading up to the first Silent Hill. It just focuses on Travis Grady as just a part of the story.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Okay. I get that: different aproach to the development changes all. However, the "origins" theme and the "Origins" title wouldn't be logic. Without an inset like Alessa's story the word "Origins" doesn't make sense.


You only say that because of the product we got. As long as something involving something's origins is the forefront of the plot, the term "Origins" is appropriate. Ergo, if the game is entirely focused on Travis' childhood, the "Origins" subtitle would be justified.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2008
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If you really need for Alessa to be the catalyst for the emergence of the "Otherworld" and "The Realm of Silent Hill", then the story could easily be placed a few years after SH 1, possibly with an older and more torn up Travis.

But as Aura has pointed out, the "Origins" title would work fine due to it relating to Travis' childhood.

~Drake

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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So could James', Henry's, Walters', Alex's fit, too.

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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2008
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And how exactly do they matter in regards to improving Origins?
I offered a constructive, thoughtful way as how to. All your doing it nitpicking in an absurd way, ignoring that SH 1 did not, at all, need a bloody prequel. It explained, in-depth, on how Alessa was abused by her mother, why she made Cheryl, and how Harry and Mrs.Mason found her.

As such, I suggested improving Origins by removing that nonsense and focusing on Travis. Just as how 2 focused on James' issue with his wife and her death, let Origins focus on Travis' issues regarding his childhood, his parents, etc. He's a trucker, he could easily be placed into Silent Hill or called to it and placed into its foggy side.

So, here's a simple way to understand it:
Origins: 1. The beginning of something's existence (Travis)
2. A person's social background or ancestry (Who's the protagonist? Travis!)
3. The place or situation from which something comes (Focusing on bloody Travis!)
It would deal with Travis' ORIGINS, like how Silent Hill: Homecoming dealt with Alex coming Home (Hey, Home Coming!).

It doesn't take a bleeding Rocket Scientist to grasp such a simple concept, my good man.

~Drake

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: how origins could have been better
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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_Drake_ wrote:
All your doing it nitpicking in an absurd way, ignoring that SH 1 did not, at all, need a bloody prequel. As such, I suggested improving Origins by removing that nonsense and focusing on Travis.

But WHY the hell are you suggesting an improvement on Origins if you just stated that a prequel is not neccessary at all?

_Drake_ wrote:
So, here's a simple way to understand it:
Origins: 1. The beginning of something's existence (Travis)
2. A person's social background or ancestry (Who's the protagonist? Travis!)
3. The place or situation from which something comes (Focusing on bloody Travis!)
It would deal with Travis' ORIGINS, like how Silent Hill: Homecoming dealt with Alex coming Home

YES, YES, YES! But so could every other game contain these same elements.

I'm not fucking nitpicking you, I'm trying to point out something.. but you just seem to avoid it.

The point is really simple:
point 1: SH1 doesn't need a prequel
point 2: if you change Origins by dislodging Alessa, you make a perfectly indipendent sequel as every other game that contains a plot about the character's origins


The Origins title made sense only beacause it contained a previous happening to Alessa's story in SH1, if you take that away it doesn't work anymore as a prequel, especially not in the SH universe.

Face the facts, a new indipendent story, like Travis' one is not a prequel in SH.

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