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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2009
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Not everything has to have a deep explanation to it. If the protagonist was killed off half-way through, it wouldn't really be much of a game.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
AuraTwilight wrote:
Or Helen really is in there (Though that doesn't mean he fought the actual Helen, they're in different dimensions).

You're saying that it was maybe another patient in that cell? ..but still, not shure how Lisa sees Helen in there..

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
No, I'm saying it's Helen in there. It's just that Travis didn't see her. Remember, Helen would be in the real world (as in the actual, populated Sanitarium), and Travis is in the Otherworld where there are monsters, and shit. So he faces not the actual Helen, but a monster based off of his memories.

As for Lisa, she exists in the real world. It's just that she and Travis are able to see each other and communicate.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
So you think travis is in this functioning sanitatium, crazly swinging away at monsters he only can see?
Helen was admitted there years ago. The only thing that remains, are the memories that manifest there.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I'm saying he's in the Otherworld, that overlaps with the real sanitarium. Only people like Dahlia, Kauffman, and Lisa can see him. Incase you missed the memo, places in Silent Hill aren't actually abandoned.

And of course she was admitted there years ago. But that doesn't mean she's dead; she could've just aged. I guarantee Helen is there, because Lisa sees her, and Lisa is in the real world. These are both facts.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
I guarantee Helen is there, because Lisa sees her, and Lisa is in the real world. These are both facts.

^ Thats true. Actually, i remember before i entered Dr. Harris' office, i heard people talking in there. So your actually right.
Im just implying that Helen's memories are there in the sanitarium. And the fact that Travis wakes up on the bench right before he leaves the place, indicates it was a dream. Not reality.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>Lisa is in the real world. [. . .] fact.<
Evidence?

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Im just implying that Helen's memories are there in the sanitarium. And the fact that Travis wakes up on the bench right before he leaves the place, indicates it was a dream. Not reality.


That's fine. I'm just saying that Helen is alive in the real world, and Travis didn't encounter her.

Quote:
Evidence?


Her behavior.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
Awkward and confused means she's in the real world? Doesn't Travis act awkward and confused?

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
She's crying and sobbing and speaking about Helen, gesturing toward her cell and speaking about her in the present tense. She doesn't acknowledge any monsters or anything off at all, not even commenting on places being empty as hell. She just goes about her general business unawares.

And I don't care what you say, no one's going to be able to have such wild sex in the Otherworld like that. She's clearly treating it as a normal motel.

That, and we have to question of why she would be in the Otherworld to begin with, when she has literally zero reason to be there. (Even if we concede she was in the Misty World by default, how the hell did she get into the Dark World before the Helen boss fight?)

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
So lisa was allowed to just walk right into the isolation room in the sanitarium?
Dont you think its odd that dahlia and lisa are allowed to to wonder around there?
Most sanitariums don't allow such behavior. Thats whats confusing about that scene with Lisa telling travis he knows who is in that room...
Unless somehow Lisa found out about travis' past, and she never actually sees helen.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
AuraTwilight wrote:
She's crying and sobbing and speaking about Helen, gesturing toward her cell and speaking about her in the present tense. She doesn't acknowledge any monsters or anything off at all, not even commenting on places being empty as hell. She just goes about her general business unawares.

And I don't care what you say, no one's going to be able to have such wild sex in the Otherworld like that. She's clearly treating it as a normal motel.

That, and we have to question of why she would be in the Otherworld to begin with, when she has literally zero reason to be there. (Even if we concede she was in the Misty World by default, how the hell did she get into the Dark World before the Helen boss fight?)

All of that is true.. but you got to consider the fact that she is drugged, maybe not all the time.. but still.. and she's totally misleaded by Kauffman. I'm sure he feeds her with bullshit, drugs all the same time, so it's hard to say if she's seeing Travis' or Alessa's world.. Alessa may be also starting to have some influence over Lisa in Origins. So.. Lisa is totally confused.. you can see by her behavior.. the mood swings.. She's not taken over so much by this Otherworld, but I also don't believe she's a big friend of reality too..
helldescent wrote:
So lisa was allowed to just walk right into the isolation room in the sanitarium?
She is a nurse. There are nurses in madhouses too.. + she was called by dr.K. to go there.
helldescent wrote:
Dont you think its odd that dahlia and lisa are allowed to to wonder around there?
Dahlia is a cult member, hospitals were involved in it, so sanitariums should be too..
helldescent wrote:
Thats whats confusing about that scene with Lisa telling travis he knows who is in that room...
Unless somehow Lisa found out about travis' past, and she never actually sees helen.
True, how the hell does she know about it? Did Helen told here, she must had known somehow about what she wants..maybe they had spoken a bit.. or it was simply oblivous.. Helen was all mad.. jumpin' around, yellin', writing in blood "BRING ME MY BOY!"

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
It's not like Lisa couldn't just....ask, or something. Or be told by someone else. "Hey, Lisa, go take this thing to over there." She goes, "Who's this?" "This would be Helen Grady." Exposition Dump. Cue the scene where Travis finds Lisa.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
]She is a nurse. There are nurses in madhouses too.. + she was called by dr.K. to go there.

^ there is no proof that lisa was called to the sanitarium
helldescent wrote:
Dont you think its odd that dahlia and lisa are allowed to to wonder around there?
Dahlia is a cult member, hospitals were involved in it, so sanitariums should be too..[quote="helldescent"]
There is no proof that the sanitarium was involved with the cult at all.
Alchemilla hospital, dahlia and dr. kauffman were involved with the cult.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
helldescent wrote:
She is a nurse. There are nurses in madhouses too.. + she was called by dr.K. to go there.

^ there is no proof that lisa was called to the sanitarium

Actually, the first time we meet Lisa, she says she's going to Ceder Grove because Kaufmann asked her.
Quote:
Doctor Kaufmann wants me to meet him in Ceder Grove, he'll be mad if I'm late.

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"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
So then why dont we see him in the sanitarium?

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
It's just what Lisa says to Travis. Who knows if she was actually telling the truth.

Edit: Found proof, although it's poor quality, this video from YouTube shows the cutscene. At around 1:09 Lisa mentions needing to go to Ceder Grove.

_________________
The above post, unless otherwise stated, should only be taken as personal opinion.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up ... wake up and smell the ashes."
"Sometimes... the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I always figured Kauffman met Lisa there, told her what to do, and got out of there before Travis even showed up, considering they can just walk and/or drive there like a normal person and Travis is forced to take these stupid detours.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why couldn't The Order just kill Travis? (SPOILERS, gent
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Yes, Kauffman is like dragging her all around town deliberately: first he calls her to come to Cedar Grove; she's also in the motel with him; we can assume that he made her go to the theater.. he REALLY wants her to be in all those places.

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