Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 21 Sep 2017




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 119 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message

Gravedigger
 Post subject: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
Well, I watched the Real Silent Hill Experience, and Fungo actually brought up a couple of interesting points that i'm kinnd of curious about. I mean I've read some nasty things about him over at the hell descent forum saying how the documentry would be biased from the start but I also thought it was worth watching.

I'm also aware that he's a member of this forum so I'd like to get him in on this too if possible but that's beside the point.

He said at one point, how SH:O couldn't have happened because the otherworld couldn't have even existed at that point. Now correct me if i'm wrong but he also said about the otherworld in 1 was caused involuntarily by Alessa's "nightmare" (whatever that was supposed to mean), and the fact that Travis was able to traverse between both worlds by going through a mirror would be impossible because the otherworld and the fog world are both on the same dimensional plane.

So would anybody be able to confirm/clarify this? It actually makes sense but the fact that people continue talking about the otherworld as if that point (not exactly saying everyone has watched the documentry, but still) has already been refuted or nobody knows about it. I may have to go back and watch it again just to make sure I heard what they were saying correctly.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
Trauma_ wrote:
He said at one point, how SH:O couldn't have happened because the otherworld couldn't have even existed at that point.

Several members on this board also hold this view, due to the otherworld having been created through a "large-scale shift." Others say that the very existence of Origins is a legitimate retcon of that point.

You decide which you'd rather believe. Is the franchise bound by previous details, or can previous details be changed by future writers?

Quote:
Now correct me if i'm wrong but he also said about the otherworld in 1 was caused involuntarily by Alessa's "nightmare" (whatever that was supposed to mean), and the fact that Travis was able to traverse between both worlds by going through a mirror would be impossible because the otherworld and the fog world are both on the same dimensional plane.

They never bothered clarifying this, beyond saying "it's obvious" and never going further. Real convincing rhetorical tactic, that. :roll:

The reason why the multiple-dimensions interpretation exists is due to things such as the decor of Brookhaven Hospital changing between SH2 and SH3, which presumably couldn't have happened unless people were still living in Silent Hill between those two games. The multiple-dimensions interpretation allows these things to happen while still allowing what happens to the characters to be "real" and not a psychotic break.

It's simply not good enough to maintain that everything happens in the real world without explaining how Silent Hill apparently functions as both an abandoned town and a non-abandoned town, simultaneously.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
That's what I was tryinng to figure out... The sarcasm wasn't entirely neccesary but oh well.

Now please go on... who are "they"? :roll:

Quote:
The reason why the multiple-dimensions interpretation exists is due to things such as the decor of Brookhaven Hospital changing between SH2 and SH3, which presumably couldn't have happened unless people were still living in Silent Hill between those two games. The multiple-dimensions interpretation allows these things to happen while still allowing what happens to the characters to be "real" and not a psychotic break.

It's simply not good enough to maintain that everything happens in the real world without explaining how Silent Hill apparently functions as both an abandoned town and a non-abandoned town, simultaneously.


So this was just Fungo talking out of his ass then when he said everything was happening in the real world? I'm not holding myself on every word the guy says, I mean I do have a brain. But with something as abiguous as SH it's hard to tell if someones just shooting the shit or making a logical legitimate claim.


Top
   
 

Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Jan 2007
Notes left: 1196
Last seen at: Night Springs
Quote:
So this was just Fungo talking out of his ass then when he said everything was happening in the real world?

More or less yeah, like has already been said, the decor and look of the town changes as time progresses, it's obviously still being used. Upgrades in computers and cars are the easiest things to notice.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 May 2009
Notes left: 1541
Last seen at: Some random piece of land enclosed by imaginary lines drawn on a map based on past conflict results.
Quote:
But with something as abiguous as SH it's hard to tell if someones just shooting the shit or making a logical legitimate claim.


It's very simple really.
Their point is logical. But that doesn't necessarily make it official.
Take the game apart and maybe you'll find your own explanation for the canon.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>Now please go on... who are "they"?<
. . . The makers of the video review. Obviously. . . .

There are numerous threads regarding Silent Hill: Origins' inconsistencies—about the Otherworld's existence, about where Alessa was burned, etc.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Top
   
 

SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
Notes left: 4060
Last seen at: Carrollton, TX
The Adversary wrote:
There are numerous threads regarding Silent Hill: Origins' inconsistencies—about the Otherworld's existence, about where Alessa was burned, etc.

Like this one. :wink:

Though I've tried to make a catch-all thread for apparent plot holes, no one saw fit to bring up the nature of the otherworld. I've tossed in my two cents in another thread, though:

I wrote:
According to Page 94 of Lost Memories, "due to the large-scale shift to the otherworld that occurred in the first game, the town has become a great catalyst for the manifestation of peoples' unconscious minds."

I've not been able to find anything that insists the [otherside] did not exist at all until SH1, only that before the "large-scale shift," the town itself was not a great catalyst for manifestation and yada yada. So perhaps Alessa was tapping into the plane known as the [otherside] in order to manifest creatures from Travis's subconscious. That doesn't contradict what Lost Memories previously stated: that the town itself would later become the catalyst (as opposed to a conscious application of effort from a little kid with weird powers).


Quote:
This is where I think people are overextending what is stated in Lost Memories. What is stated is that after the events of SH1, the town became a great catalyst and could call people with darkness in their hearts. Travis was not called to Silent Hill; his delivery route took him through the area and Alessa personally reached out to him. I consider Alessa herself to be the "catalyst" in this scenario, whereas the existing power of the town is merely a passive tool. I would liken the otherworld to a battery and Alessa to an inventor.


Quote:
Burning Man wrote:
The only way that the Mirror World in Origins would make sense is if Alessa tapped into Silent Hill's powers, and then warped it herself, artificially, with an intent to mess with Travis' mind.

That intent is the means, rather than the end, of course. But yes, that's what I think happened. She was the active catalyst for manifestation in Origins, and even after that, the town's power wasn't really changed. Only after SH1, when she acted as a catalyst for a tremendous shift to the [otherside], did the town develop the specific ability to manifest unconscious minds and call people to Silent Hill (both of which Alessa did in SH1).


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 May 2008
Notes left: 507
There is a point to be, I think, that Travis actually has to choose to enter the Otherworld by going through the mirrors. as in the fact that Alessa did not create her version of the Otherworld yet, so the one that Travis visits is the one specific to him at the time with slight changes due to the traumatic experience that occurred to Alessa at the beginning of the game.

In SH1, you more or less have to choose to enter the Otherworld too, but it's different as in the fact that there is no time to shift in between voluntarily like Travis does. I think that the Otherworld has been there all along. Aren't there reports of encounters with it during more older times too?

_________________
I don't make a signature.
Except for the part of the signature explaining that I don't.
And that.
And that.
And that.
...
...and that.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Dec 2010
Notes left: 158
Well the way I see things, I only see Origins, and the rest of the games not made by Team Silent, as non-canon. I just see them as fun "fan-fiction", and try not to take them too seriously. I do think they're good games, but aren't on par with the first 4 in terms of story, direction, design, and atmosphere.

_________________
Wolfwood: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. "Go with the grace and protection of the Lord." It's the usual mantra for the big hero.
Vash the Stampede: Does it work?
Wolfwood: That depends entirely on you.
Vash the Stampede: Some mantra...

-Trigun


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 May 2008
Notes left: 507
If we can't accept the non TS games, there is no future for the series. lol. Let them be creative. We just have to have fun with it. If we are willing to suspend our criticisms momentarily, we can just as easily connect the games as we can deconstruct them. Be optimistic. haha

_________________
I don't make a signature.
Except for the part of the signature explaining that I don't.
And that.
And that.
And that.
...
...and that.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Dec 2010
Notes left: 158
My thoughts exactly! I think Shattered Memories is the best example of what you said. Still would be awesome if Team Silent returned. I would wet myself.

_________________
Wolfwood: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. "Go with the grace and protection of the Lord." It's the usual mantra for the big hero.
Vash the Stampede: Does it work?
Wolfwood: That depends entirely on you.
Vash the Stampede: Some mantra...

-Trigun


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 May 2008
Notes left: 507
Be careful what you say. haha. I don't want the Team Silent debtae to rush into every thread on the site.

Shattered Memories is a great example of accepting the newer games, but I was referring to the main story line games. haha. Even if Origins puts a little static up against SH1, it's still in my opinion an accurate telling of what happened before the games started. I mean, it changes what we know about Alessa's beginnings, but either way, we can accept the remainder of the game... the people, the places. After all, we don't know everything about the SH Universe yet. Maybe Travis thought he was rescuing Alessa from that fire so she could use the damaged and heavyhearted character to explore the town for her. Perhaps she was already burnt at that point? Idk. Just ideas.

_________________
I don't make a signature.
Except for the part of the signature explaining that I don't.
And that.
And that.
And that.
...
...and that.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I didn't accept Origins and Homecoming because they're both crappy games and even crappier examples of storytelling. But Climax, atleast, proved that they can pull off great and masterful work when not getting dicked in the ass by executives, so I look forward to all their future work.

Double Helix, though, has no goddamn excuse.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 May 2008
Notes left: 507
I haven't played Homecoming yet, but... Origins was a unique game. It felt very much like a SH. It didn't offer too much variations from the older games, but I thought it was acceptable. The story wasn't bad. I mean, it wasn't overly inspiring, but it wasn't bad by any stretch of the word. I choose to look at it with an optimistic lens. I mean, there are plenty of alternative theories that allow it to fit with the main SH games.

_________________
I don't make a signature.
Except for the part of the signature explaining that I don't.
And that.
And that.
And that.
...
...and that.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Dec 2010
Notes left: 158
AuraTwilight wrote:
I didn't accept Origins and Homecoming because they're both crappy games and even crappier examples of storytelling. But Climax, atleast, proved that they can pull off great and masterful work when not getting dicked in the ass by executives, so I look forward to all their future work.

Double Helix, though, has no goddamn excuse.


Totally agree with this.

_________________
Wolfwood: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. "Go with the grace and protection of the Lord." It's the usual mantra for the big hero.
Vash the Stampede: Does it work?
Wolfwood: That depends entirely on you.
Vash the Stampede: Some mantra...

-Trigun


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
The thing that gets me about the 'Team Silent' worship is that this team did four games in the series, and Shattered Memories is better than half of them.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 2249
Last seen at: The Rabbit Hole
It's mostly just newbies that do the "Team Silent" worship, though.
There's no point in romanticizing the individuals in the team, but as a general rule, ppl like the first 3-4 games much better, so they think it has something to do with Akira and company.

I don't think who is making the game is as important as how well they understand the material...
and the problem with that statement is how subjective it is. :D

EDIT:
@ the post below me-
*round of applause*
8)

_________________
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21367&p=674128#p674128


Last edited by SilentWren on 22 Dec 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Dec 2010
Notes left: 158
I dunno, didn't Team Silent create the series in the first place? Sorry if I sound biased, it's just that I'm so attached to the signature elements that TS has implanted that it's difficult for me to let go. It's like how Batman has a totally different personality every time the comics shift from writer to writer. And that's MY honest opinion.

But you all have your own opinions, and respectable and understandable ones at that, so I'll just leave it there. I don't think there's a need for us to separate apart just because we enjoy and prefer the different styles and flavors of Silent Hill. Even though I prefer the older games, I still look forward to the news ones, hoping I'll enjoy it. Shattered Memories has put my hopes up for these new creative staffs.

PS: HA! How's THAT for avoiding a flame war?

_________________
Wolfwood: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. "Go with the grace and protection of the Lord." It's the usual mantra for the big hero.
Vash the Stampede: Does it work?
Wolfwood: That depends entirely on you.
Vash the Stampede: Some mantra...

-Trigun


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 09 May 2008
Notes left: 507
We're all adults----ish here. haha. There will be no wars. Never. Maybe.

I think they all should have a place in the SH storyline. No point in complaining about what's already happened.

_________________
I don't make a signature.
Except for the part of the signature explaining that I don't.
And that.
And that.
And that.
...
...and that.


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Quote:
The thing that gets me about the 'Team Silent' worship is that this team did four games in the series, and Shattered Memories is better than half of them.

Wasn't Team Silent made up of different people for each game? Well, for the most part, anyway...

I liked what Juri Dawn has said about the otherworld and its inconstancies between Origins and 1. To me it makes sense that (if one likes to think of Origins as canon) Alessa simply used her power and the towns untainted power to reach out to Travis herself (it's just a coincidence that he's messed up/has a messed up childhood). Perhaps she somehow used said powers to place Travis in an alternate reality type thing to keep him safe-ish so he could help her. I know that after SH1 the town started reaching out to people, but is there any thing that explictly states that there was no chance of another reality or plane exisiting before hers? If not, then it's possible what we see as the foggy otherworld in Origins is simply the untainted version of said other plane. Now, as for the other otherworld in Origins...

I think the reason his darker otherworld is all messed up and populated with monsters isn't because of an oversight in continuity, but because of his mother's influence, along with how he enters the dark otherworld. It's not a coincidence that in order to enter the other otherworld he has to use a mirror. Perhaps what he sees there is what he imagined lurked there as a child? After all, as a child he would've heard her rambling on about mirror worlds and mirror people. It would've left one hell of an imprint on his mind. As I recall, Aura Twilight mentioned in another thread the Otherworld is a world of thought... If one imagines a twisted version of reality on the other side of a mirror, then perhaps it might be possible for such a realm to change based on that strong belief.

Then again, people will always find a way to twist things around to suit them if they want something to fit the already established continuity. ^_~


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 119 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: