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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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Yeah, I've pretty much noticed that.

I've never heard about those videos, I'll have to take a look

There's this one video I saw explaining PH's existence that said White Claudia was being burned in the iron mines, which was the source of the fog- making everyone hallucinate or something ridiculous like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y69f2ZrmXJw Here it is...

The guy went so far as to say "don't post any comments trying to prove me wrong" too. Ridiculous.


Last edited by Trauma_ on 05 May 2011, edited 1 time in total.

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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Dec 2006
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soulless-shadow wrote:
As for where Alessa was burned, I don't think they overlooked that at all. I think they just decided that rescuing her from the basement would've been too hazardous, hence why they placed her upstairs. Who in their right mind would go into the basement of a burning building anyway? Perhaps Climax were simply hoping we would overlook such a minor detail?


They didn't overlook it, you're correct.

This is one of those big "inconsistencies" in the game that people who dislike the game like to tout. The people who like to be all, "SUPPLEMENTAL THINGS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT!" but at the same time talk about how, "Well. When Silent Hill 1 was made, the intention was that it probably was being overtaken by the otherworld in the real world and retconned for the second game." So basically, the japanese teams are allowed to retcon, but not the Western teams.

Anways, an article you find IN THE GAME in the Public Records attempts to explain the inconsistency. You discover that a body was placed in the basement and the police records were changed to hide the fact that Alessa was immolated in the second story of the house. Basically, they put the body in the basement because the second story probably didn't even exist (structurally) by the time the fire was put out.

So yes, it's a retcon, but it's a well done one and doesn't go against anything in-game. Which, you know, should probably be looked at more than a guidebook outside of game.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
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Nillin wrote:
So basically, the japanese teams are allowed to retcon, but not the Western teams.


THANK YOU.

Even with as much shit as certain games get, there isn't anything anyone can do to erase them from existence.
No matter how badly we want to.....*cough*

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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So when exactly have the creators of the original games retconned anything ever?

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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^We were talking about the little things like the first game implying that the town was abandoned. :?

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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An implication, by its very nature, cannot be retconned.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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lol wut?

He (or she?) was commenting on the fact that there are fans who worship the first few games, and think everything after 4 is total shit. And there are. It isn't only TwinPerfect that feels that way.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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You were commenting on Nillin saying that the Japanese teams were allowed to retcon, which makes little sense considering that they never retconned anything. That is what AuraTwilight, and later myself, were responding to. Everybody knows that there are confused children who verbally fellate Team Silent, but what does that have to do with anything?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
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Ok. Never mind.
I guess we just have different definitions of the word retcon, because I consider some of those little details retcons. This thread is upposed to be about Origins anyhow, so let's get back on that.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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I thought some parts of SH:TR could be considered retcons, i.e. The connection between Walter and the newspaper in SH2 mostly. I really hate the fact that SH:TR was connected back to SH2 when I really shouldn't have. SH2 didn't set up for SH:TR to connect to it, they just went back and tied the fine ends together.

Once SH3 got away w/ it, every game since then has decided it MUST retcon in some way to the original game.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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That's not really retconning, though. Retconning is when a future installment outright contradicts information in an earlier installment. The Room merely expands upon the snippets found in Silent Hill 2.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Elaborating on unexplored details are not retcons. A retcon is "Retroactive Continuity", wherein an entry in a narrative superimposes facts on previous entries in a way that were not possible. An example would be "It turns out that Skynet was a centralized program throughout the internet and Judgement Day was on 2003, not 1997."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2006
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The whole "Red Devil" thing between 2/4 was verging right on the edge of being retconned, IMO, as much as people liked SH1, it was a bit all over the place, especially the whole thing with the possesive leeches (which hinted at some sort of zombie subplot), SH2 fixed things right up. About the whole otherworld not existing before Alessa? I think that's wrong, it was just harder to break the barrier between our world and the otherworld.

I dislike Fungo's documentary, it presents itself as a documentary, then comes across as a review, plus they're attitude stinks, especially when people (including developers) questioned things that they've said, they come back with "Well, well, well..we dint aktuerly say dat LOL!" instead of accepting that someone has put a hole in their theory. They obviously put a lot of time into it all though, so good on them.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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Nillin wrote:
Anways, an article you find IN THE GAME in the Public Records attempts to explain the inconsistency. You discover that a body was placed in the basement and the police records were changed to hide the fact that Alessa was immolated in the second story of the house.

Actually, the police report makes no mention of a body in the basement, just that the fire originated there. This is misdirection intended to divert any investigation that might result from the real report which stated that the fire started on the upper floor by suspicious means.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Quote:
---------------------
ALTERED POLICE REPORT
---------------------
Location: Silent Hill, Public Records

Looks like the fire started on the
first floor and spread to the rest of
the house. Circumstances are
suspicious.

(Someone has ruled through this
text and added a new paragraph.)

Seems there was an accident in
the basement. An old boiler caused
a fire that spread to the rest of the
building. The cause would appear
to be accidental.

(The report continues, unaltered.)

Despite fire fighter's best efforts, it
spread to the surrounding
houses. Alessa Gillespie was
declared dead at the scene by Dr.
Kauffman. Her body was identified
by her mother. Death Certificate
and coroner's report will be
forthcoming.


As for Alessa's burning being a potential retcon, I still like to think Climax found a way to avoid breaking continuity by including the "substitute body" mentioned in the Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition. Travis "rescued" a corpse while Alessa was still in the basement.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
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I haven't played the game in a while so forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't the "Alessa" that Travis rescues help Travis get out of the house by clearing a path for him through the fire? And doesn't the burned Alessa open her eyes in the house?


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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She certainly does some magicking on his behalf.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
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Quote:
I still like to think Climax found a way to avoid breaking continuity by including the "substitute body" mentioned in the Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition. Travis "rescued" a corpse while Alessa was still in the basement.

Doesn't the guide contradict the actions of the charred girl, her eyes opening and helping clear the way through the fire? Am I suppose to believe that Alessa is doing all of this from the basement? When I played the game, I assumed that Travis was carrying Alessa out of the house.
All this being said, I think I'm agreeing with JuriDawn when I say: Climax screwed when put Alessa on the second floor and Climax or Konami tried to fix the mistake in the Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition.


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition was published in 1999. Silent Hill: Origins, 2007.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
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Whatever then they are using the guide as cover for the mistake. i thought JuriDawn was talking about a guide book that came when SHO did.


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: A point that Fungo brought up...*spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Whatever then they are using the guide as cover for the mistake.<
I don't think you're getting it. Climax's writers consciously contradicted what is written in Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition. This is the point of contention among (some) fans.

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