No combat - a retaliation?

Ten years after the original game and Harry's still searching for his daughter.

Moderator: Moderators

SilentOne
Just Passing Through
Posts: 127
Joined: 03 Mar 2008

No combat - a retaliation?

Post by SilentOne »

I was sitting down today, discussing the upcoming Silent Hill reimagining with my friends when one of them brought up a good point: could the exclusion of a combat system be considered a retaliation towards the people who bashed the Silent Hill Homecoming combat system?

While it's pure speculation, I find this thought very intriguing.

So? What do you guys think?

No combat system: an attempt at trying to make the player feel more "insecure" during the game, or are the combat system bashers to blame?
Yo.
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Post by AuraTwilight »

I would totally lol if that was the case.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
JuriDawn
SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
Posts: 4060
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Gender: Female
Location: Carrollton, TX

Post by JuriDawn »

Why would Climax feel the need to retaliate against a criticism brought against Double Helix? I think you meant "reaction."

And if so, I would lol as well. Until the umpteenth time a monster pulled me off a fence, then I would swear viciously and throw my controller.
User avatar
_Drake_
Hope House Careworker
Posts: 678
Joined: 23 Dec 2008

Post by _Drake_ »

I'd laugh my ass off if that was the case, Hell I'd send them a Chocolate Life Sized Harry statue if they did it because of that.

~Drake
Image

"Oh it get's to me alright" - Vincent
My Silent Hill Fanfic, Silent Hill: Spiritual Dissonance
User avatar
Sake
My Bestsellers Clerk
Posts: 325
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Room 302

Post by Sake »

If the combat system bashers were to blame for that, I'd be pissed.
User avatar
nobody
My Bestsellers Clerk
Posts: 357
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Blackwater Park

Post by nobody »

Shattered Memories will be released in fall 2009(hopefully), so i'd say decisions like excluding combat would have been made a long time ago. probably before Homecoming had been released.
Last edited by nobody on 14 Apr 2009, edited 1 time in total.
there's comfort in silence
Ratiocinator
Brookhaven Receptionist
Posts: 763
Joined: 09 Feb 2004
Contact:

Post by Ratiocinator »

While the colorful responses to Homecoming's combat system were plenty no company would make such a big decision soley (or majorly) for the fact to retaliate against something. And something as big as combat (or lack of in this game) is a choice that was well, well, well thought through before implementation.
User avatar
nobody
My Bestsellers Clerk
Posts: 357
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Blackwater Park

Post by nobody »

there's comfort in silence
Davido
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Belgium

Post by Davido »

They may give any reason they want, but i simply believe the wii is not capable of handling the combat system with all other features. If they made this game for a xbox 360 or ps3 you can bet your life on it that it would have had all those features + combat
User avatar
nobody
My Bestsellers Clerk
Posts: 357
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Blackwater Park

Post by nobody »

they started to develop the game with the idea in mind not to have combat in it, watch the movie... you totally miss the point.
there's comfort in silence
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Post by AuraTwilight »

Lol, the Wii not having the ability to handle it. Not to get into a Console War, but the difference in processing power isn't so great that one system wouldn't be able to handle the burden of "Harry swings his pipe/shoots his gun."
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
Davido
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Belgium

Post by Davido »

They started to develop the game with the idea of making money; the wii being a good choice for a flashlight horror game because its currently catching dust in most houses. But as I said its not capable of adding the combat unless they turn it in a rail shooter ( lol ).It's just my opinion, I dont want to bash anything.

edit: I owned a wii myself, its not a damn consolewar untill you brought it up :| And I do believe that if they needed to add a combat system they would have to cut back on other stuff ( like the flashlight that seems to be OO so great). Yes I did lost my faith in the Wii but I'm not bashing it.
User avatar
emptimass
Subway Guard
Posts: 1748
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Location: Southeast of Greenwich...somewhere sandy.

Post by emptimass »

Sorry. This game sounds more and more like shit with each new discovery. I am a huge fan of the series, and this seems more like a mockery to me. A lack of a combat system? Less hellish environments? This must be the happy, P. C take on a truely disturbing series.

Maybe they can dumb it down, Americanize it with Cybil's tits, and give it a E rating. Then the kids could enjoy it......ah fuck.
"No more soul to sell, 31 years and on my way to Hell".
Reno
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Contact:

Post by Reno »

As a developer, the comment on the combat being excluded because the wii can't run the game as well as the combat is mind-numbing.
Unless they wrote completely junk code for the rest of the game nothing could possibly slow it down to such an extreme, let alone adding a few dozen extra animations, some items and probably a few thousand lines of code.
unreadphilosophy
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 3247
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Gender: Male
Location: Wouldn't you like to know. ;D

Post by unreadphilosophy »

If Shattered Memories has a battle system absent, it wouldn't be the first game to walk down that path.

The survival-horror series Clock Tower did not have a combat system with the exclusion of boss battles.

Climax may take the same road with this game.
Davido
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Belgium

Post by Davido »

Well I'm not a developer and I just thought it would involve making a new physics and such which would make it harder to run. Just call me stupid but thats what I thought.

Then if that's really the case I feel sad that they left it out.
*Edit: Let's just say that being able to choose to run or fight with the given situation and number of monsters is what makes it fun for me.

Monsters communicating and rushing through doors to get you just doesnt seem right in Silent Hill...

Let's just hope for the best I guess.
Last edited by Davido on 14 Apr 2009, edited 1 time in total.
Reno
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Contact:

Post by Reno »

I'm not calling you stupid. It's mostly that I see alot of people online talk about how they think computers, games, consoles, noodles, quantum mechanics, etc run; so when you actually understand it, it grates on you after a while.

Generally, a simple combat system requires no special physics system or anything. Most of the time the only physics added would be ragdolls. While they are indeed much more expensive than normal animations, they're also not necessarily requires, and you can simulate the ragdoll and just bake it into a normal animation.
Most of the work would be making the animations for the combat(weapon holding/swinging/firing) and code pertaining to them harming the enemy. Since we know the game has 'useable' things such as flares, they have a good portion of the mechanics there already.

So unless they were really lousy at their code(which something tells me is fairly unlikely, thankfully) there's no TECHNICAL reason holding them back; it was purely a design choice.
Davido
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Belgium

Post by Davido »

They better prove that they made the right decision then ! Playing through SHO as we speak and I got to say that a meathook breaking after 5 swings isent the best idea they've come up with, nor making it scary or harder. They did a good job for the rest so far.
Mephisto
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 8073
Joined: 12 Feb 2009

Post by Mephisto »

Well, since we have no "physical" combat I would like to see some combat involving the environment, as I stated on another thread: Throw a monster into a hole or whatever, tackle the monsters like Drake said would be nice too, but you should be able to use your environment as a weapon... If they think about it - Hell, forget the weapons for sure. But not 100%, what we do in Boss Battles? Now they should lend us 1 or 2 weapons, just for those fights.. Like Clocktower used to do like another member stated here... The only thing that bugs me is the game happening in the future...

They could make it the same as the first SH, just without melee/ranged weapons and the ability to "creat you own monsters" and these "outfits" things that we have seen so far is some pictures... That would be nice, now monster talking with anothers just doesn't fit... Thinking of a way to kill you alright, but talkin'? I don't know that's dumb, reason : Just because we didn't saw ANY enemy talkin' so far, just screamin'...Babbling, whatever... That's silly...:|
Reno
Just Passing Through
Posts: 58
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Contact:

Post by Reno »

There are honestly 2 major things with the 'no combat'.

Do they *literally* mean 'no combat'?
If they implemented what you'd mentioned, ie throwing stuff at them, dropping book cases on their heads, etc; then it's much less of an honest issue. They've essentially just taken the traditional weapons like the pistol or pipe, made them temporary(such as the breakable weapons in origins) and made it so you can't store them.
If that's the case, there is actually combat there(though they'd need to do a good deal of balancing to make it not too easy to overpower everything, or likewise make it so the items used aren't worthless) and most of the concerns people are having(myself included to a lesser degree) are much less applicable.

For the second part, if there is actually no combat, and they DO retain bosses, they have a lot of extra work on their hands, because the fastest way to screw up a gameplay mechanic is to not have it a central focus.

A prime example being vehicle levels in most FPS games. They show up once, and being such a minor part, they usually don't get the polish required and controls are terrible and usually degrade the experience a great deal.
If there's no combat except for bosses, they face that potential problem. Reach a boss and suddenly you have horribly awkward combat and the gameplay experience goes down the drain very quickly.

I'm thinking they're likely keeping 'enviornmental hazards' rathern than literally chucking the combat entirely. At least, that's what I'm hoping on.
Post Reply