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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
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NanayaShiki wrote:
rm2kking wrote:
I agree that the alternate future thing can exist in Silent Hill but I do also acknowledge the "true" endings. Just as there are possibly real alternate futures, your life as you experience it would be your "true" future. Works the same way.


Eh. Why do you think there has to be a "true" ending? I don't believe any of the Silent Hill endings are called "The True Ending". That would kinda ruin the whole thing. What gives someone the right to decide if the Leave ending or the In Water ending really happened?

No. All the endings really happened in that particular playthrough you just played. As it has been said and joked about before, the only real continuity the series has with it's endings are the UFO endings.


Well yeah if you totally disregard Silent Hill 3.


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rm2kking wrote:
Well yeah if you totally disregard Silent Hill 3.


... what?


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Historical Society Historian
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Saying there is no real continuity just doesn't make sense. Silent Hill 3 could not have happened if the good ending didnt occur at the end of Silent Hill 1. Not only this but the later games occasionally allude to events that could only have happened if one ending or the other was the true one.

If the bad ending happens in Origins, there would be no Cheryl. In Homecoming it is stated that Douglas helped expose the Order, which means Heather CAN'T have killed him. Frank Sunderland says James and Mary went to Silent Hill and disappeared, which means the leave ending is likely untrue. There is a continuity.


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rm2kking wrote:
Saying there is no real continuity. Silent Hill 3 could not have happened if the good ending didnt occur at the end of Silent Hill 1. Not only this but the later games frequently allude to events that could only have happened if one ending or the other was the true one.

In Homecoming it is stated that Douglas helped expose the Order, which means Heather CAN'T have killed him. Frank Sunderland says James and Mary went to Silent Hill and disappeared, which means the leave ending is likely untrue. There is a continuity.


Reading my posts again, you may catch on to the fact that I am saying there are MULTIPLE continuities, not none. The thing about the UFO endings is mainly a joke, like the ending itself. If you take a look at the first three games in particular, the UFO endings are the only ones that follow a particular ending for a fact. Even in SH3 it's possible that it's following an ending we never saw.

Seriously, would you rather believe that because in Homecoming it mentions Douglas that the other ending in SH3 is non-canon or would you rather believe that the world is not just one set path and that all of the endings happened in their own world? Personally, I like that second one a lot more. And so does Tomm, it would seem.


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I agree with you, but you cannot deny that there is a "main" continuity. The sequels presented are possible futures but the fact that they only acknowledge one ending or another is testament to there being a "true" future.


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rm2kking wrote:
I agree with you, but you cannot deny that there is a "main" continuity. The sequels presented are possible futures but the fact that they only acknowledge one ending or another is testament to there being a "true" future.


No, it means they decided to go with that particular future for the setting of their game. You can't label realities as less important or insignificant simply because you know more about the outcome of another one.


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NanayaShiki wrote:
No, it means they decided to go with that particular future for the setting of their game.


That's what makes it the "main" continuity.

NanayaShiki wrote:
You can't label realities as less important or insignificant simply because you know more about the outcome of another one.


I'm not, I'm just saying the games seem to follow a set path.


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rm2kking wrote:
That's what makes it the "main" continuity.
[...]
I'm not, I'm just saying the games seem to follow a set path.


I'm saying that just because we have seen games in that path does not make it the "main" or "true" path. There is no "true" path.


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Historical Society Historian
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The only reason I'm saying it's the "main" path is because the developers chose to explore those futures in sequels. We only experience the one main continuity, though we are presented with the alternate paths it could have taken. This is what I mean, I am not refuting the validity of the other endings. Not at all.

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I kinda wish that Silent Hill never connected any of the games directly. Even though I enjoyed SH3 and Origins I don't find the Alessa mythos to be the strongest narrative element in the series.


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It's apparently important enough in the mythos to merit 3 games.

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Just Passing Through
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Or it's just a recognizable enough mythos to sell three games.

Or it's just easier to expand on something rather than to develop something fresh.

Or it's just there for people who want a concrete/finite explanation for the source of evil in Silent Hill.

Or it's just a rut that the developers fell into.

Or maybe it's all of the above.


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Yes, it is all of the above I'm sure.

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Just Passing Through
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For me, I was always more interested in the personal side of Silent Hill. The cult, flauros and related explanations over the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill never did it for me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them as very good macabre background noise but I really like Silent Hill as more of an unexplainable Freudian hell.

If anything, I liked to take the occult stuff as allegories. Sort like a twisted understanding of events similar to how physical reality is twisted by Silent Hill. If you have ever seen The Machinist then you will know what I mean when I compare it to the difference between Trevor's truth and Trevor's fiction(Route 666). The only difference is that Silent Hill does it in a more Lovecraftian way.

I think by bringing the Alessa mythos to the fore in multiple games they give it a lot of weight. Maybe more than is necessary because it makes me feel like I understand the metaphysics of Silent Hill more than I should, making it lose some of it's alien qualities and perhaps causing it to take precedence over the personal histories and demons of the protagonists.

I have a feeling that Shattered Memories is going to focus less on the occult explanations and more on OUR personal demons. To me, that's good design.


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Awesome explanation of Silent Hill DrainDeimos.
Alessa's story sure gets a lot of attention but the game that really exemplafies what Silent Hill really is is SH2.

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Thanks and I agree, SH2 is my fave. I like that it hinted at subtle touches of the occult but didn't spell out a complete mythos. By not completeing the picture it is left more abject.

About midway through the game the player is given an occult origin for Pyramid Head's iconic image but later it is revealed that Pyramid Head is a manifestation of James's guilt. Like most people, James couldn't deal with certain parts of himself so externalized these parts. I like to think the same thing about the content in the Book of Crimson Ceremony. It was a manifestation of potential desire that James weaved into a convincing fairytale, not terribly different than the names and stories that cultures gave to various aspects of nature when naming gods.

I am curious about what will be kept or reinterpreted in Shattered Memories from the original. Some hints were laid out in the interview when they referred to the "family" theme.


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That seems to be a strong theme in Silent Hill, weather it be in a good way (The Movie) or a bad way (Walter's mother delusions).

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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DrainDeimos wrote:
Some hints were laid out in the interview when they referred to the "family" theme.

The family theme has always been a major theme in the Silent Hill franchise. Konami believes that Silent Hill wouldn't be "Silent Hill" without it.

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DrainDeimos wrote:
For me, I was always more interested in the personal side of Silent Hill. The cult, flauros and related explanations over the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill never did it for me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them as very good macabre background noise but I really like Silent Hill as more of an unexplainable Freudian hell.

If anything, I liked to take the occult stuff as allegories. Sort like a twisted understanding of events similar to how physical reality is twisted by Silent Hill. If you have ever seen The Machinist then you will know what I mean when I compare it to the difference between Trevor's truth and Trevor's fiction(Route 666). The only difference is that Silent Hill does it in a more Lovecraftian way.

I think by bringing the Alessa mythos to the fore in multiple games they give it a lot of weight. Maybe more than is necessary because it makes me feel like I understand the metaphysics of Silent Hill more than I should, making it lose some of it's alien qualities and perhaps causing it to take precedence over the personal histories and demons of the protagonists.

I have a feeling that Shattered Memories is going to focus less on the occult explanations and more on OUR personal demons. To me, that's good design.


Quoted For Truth


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NanayaShiki wrote:
DrainDeimos wrote:
For me, I was always more interested in the personal side of Silent Hill. The cult, flauros and related explanations over the supernatural aspects of Silent Hill never did it for me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them as very good macabre background noise but I really like Silent Hill as more of an unexplainable Freudian hell.

If anything, I liked to take the occult stuff as allegories. Sort like a twisted understanding of events similar to how physical reality is twisted by Silent Hill. If you have ever seen The Machinist then you will know what I mean when I compare it to the difference between Trevor's truth and Trevor's fiction(Route 666). The only difference is that Silent Hill does it in a more Lovecraftian way.

I think by bringing the Alessa mythos to the fore in multiple games they give it a lot of weight. Maybe more than is necessary because it makes me feel like I understand the metaphysics of Silent Hill more than I should, making it lose some of it's alien qualities and perhaps causing it to take precedence over the personal histories and demons of the protagonists.

I have a feeling that Shattered Memories is going to focus less on the occult explanations and more on OUR personal demons. To me, that's good design.


Quoted For Truth


And dittoed again.

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