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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 15 May 2008
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Humbordt wrote:
(and it was good, for what it was, but also smallerized from previous games)
This is what I don't understand here. How is the plot any smaller than any of the other games. It is every bit in depth as any other plot in the game (and far more in depth than the plot from SH1 actually was). Are you speaking about scope? The scope still only encompasses the town of Silent Hill and denizens thereof. I don't really follow what you're trying to say here.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
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I think what Humbordt is saying is that his personal preference in SH stories are the ones relating to the cult, the birthing of god, the paradise/apocalypse side of things and the mystery of the town itself. Essentially the stories that deal with a grander scope than the emotional issues of an individual.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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Humbordt wrote:
One of the things I like about Silent Hill is that everybody takes away something different. I think that the deep storyline is only an added bonus, and not necessary, to a Silent Hill game (I'm gonna catch shit for that, ain't I?). To me, it's all about being there, in that creepy environment, that disturbing atmosphere, and exploring. I can get lost in it.


I really like the way you think, im a fan of the disturbing abstract atmosphere too.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
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"Essentially the stories that deal with a grander scope than the emotional issues of an individual."

Right. I do like interesting characters, butI like them in the context of a bigger story, and not the center of the story itself. It worked better in SH2 (for me) because while it was about James and his issues, it was part of the broader context of the town, and how it affected people with these issues. In Shattered Memories, the town was more of a backdrop than an active participant. Not that that is bad, in and of itself, but it makes the scope of the story... smaller.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
I think that the deep storyline is only an added bonus, and not necessary, to a Silent Hill game (I'm gonna catch shit for that, ain't I?).


Yea, probably XD

Quote:
Right. I do like interesting characters, butI like them in the context of a bigger story, and not the center of the story itself. It worked better in SH2 (for me) because while it was about James and his issues, it was part of the broader context of the town, and how it affected people with these issues. In Shattered Memories, the town was more of a backdrop than an active participant. Not that that is bad, in and of itself, but it makes the scope of the story... smaller.


I have to disagree, here. The town, in SH2, was really more of a setting and a macguffin. Everyone is there because they have memories there, or some reason to look for something there, but the town itself isn't really anything important. The town is just a plot device to handwave why all this magical crap is happening. If we were to, say, interpret these characters as just having shared delusions and battling their own psyches (which, really, they sort of are anyway), then the town becomes pretty insignificant.

The characterization has always been the focused centre of the plot, and in SH2 is pretty much the end-all and be-all of everything going on. The only difference is that in one plot, it's handwaved as magic, and in the other, it's handwaved as being some girl going crazy. The difference is thematically insignificant, considering how much Silent Hill played with "Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane."

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
Notes left: 18
AuraTwilight wrote:
I have to disagree, here.


That's okay, you're allowed.

This is the way I saw it: the town itself (in SH2) existed as a "supernatural entity" (for want of a better term) with or without James being there. It was something different for him and for Eddie and for Angela and what's-her-name, the little girl (it's on the tip of my tongue). They were all there at the same time and were all seeing and experiencing things differently. This is what made things interesting for me--we have several characters with different issues, and the town is playing on these issues, begging the question, "What the hell is this town?"
To me, it made the town more of an active character.

But in Shattered Memories, the town was just a location. That doesn't make it a bad story, just not as interesting to me.

If you saw things differently, that's fine. That's exactly what I like about the SH series is that everybody takes away something different.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I agree the town is a supernatural force in SH2, but it's not really an entity; it doesn't WANT anything, and it doesn't really DO anything. It's just a canvas, and James and the others are artists painting with the colors of their minds. The only real difference between the two models is that in SH2, we have four real people. In SHSM, we got two.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
Notes left: 18
That's what you took from it. But it sounds to me (and I could be wrong, so don't get bent, I still love ya) like you're trying to downplay the town as it was previously presented in order to make Shattered Memories sound just as interesting... but you're finding it hard to make Shattered Memories seem to be more than it is, and easier to just make the older games seem like less. It sounds to me like you're stretching to equalize them. Which I understand, you like the game, and you want everybody else to like it, but I, and a lot of other people, are just never going to.

Compare the movie 2001 with it's sequel, 2010. Actually, better yet, compare the two movie versions of The Shining, since the miniseries was different enough from the original to be called a "re-imagining." The miniseries fleshed the story out a great deal over the original film (and stayed a lot truer to the book, but we'll ignore the book for the purpose of discussion--I guess, technically, the original movie was a "re-imagining" of the book, but I'm digressing big time here) but really, which one left you with disturbing, lasting images, and which one just told the story with very little style? I picked those examples because I always thought Silent Hill (1-4, at least) was very Kubrickian in it's presentation (and it's an utter shame that Kubrick died before a SH movie was made, because I think his directing style would have made a SH movie exactly what it should have been, instead of what it was).

Origins was a good copy (yes, I genuinely liked Origins, shall I tell you all the reasons why you're wrong not to? :wink: ), it almost nailed it (but not quite--ultimately, it still felt like an imitation), but Homecoming and Shattered Memories were like TV miniseries-es in comparison (Shattered Memories, of course, being the far worse of the two). Silent Hill had personality and style in the older games, and has lost it since then. The town itself had a presence that it no longer does. In my opinion.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
That's what you took from it. But it sounds to me (and I could be wrong, so don't get bent, I still love ya) like you're trying to downplay the town as it was previously presented in order to make Shattered Memories sound just as interesting... but you're finding it hard to make Shattered Memories seem to be more than it is, and easier to just make the older games seem like less. It sounds to me like you're stretching to equalize them. Which I understand, you like the game, and you want everybody else to like it, but I, and a lot of other people, are just never going to.


You know, I'd really like it if you stopped assuming what I was trying to say or analyze my subconscious motives or whatever the fuck. It's seriously disrespectful.

All I'm saying is that Silent Hill is not an active entity that wants, behaves, and does things. It's a passive force or energy that lets the humans that visit it do thing on a subconscious level. There's no supernatural being fucking with James, he just has this inner conflict between truth/delusion and life/death, and is able to construct a world where he can work out these issues. I held this point of view before Shattered Memories was even announced.

Quote:
Compare the movie 2001 with it's sequel, 2010. Actually, better yet, compare the two movie versions of The Shining, since the miniseries was different enough from the original to be called a "re-imagining." The miniseries fleshed the story out a great deal over the original film (and stayed a lot truer to the book, but we'll ignore the book for the purpose of discussion--I guess, technically, the original movie was a "re-imagining" of the book, but I'm digressing big time here) but really, which one left you with disturbing, lasting images, and which one just told the story with very little style? I picked those examples because I always thought Silent Hill (1-4, at least) was very Kubrickian in it's presentation (and it's an utter shame that Kubrick died before a SH movie was made, because I think his directing style would have made a SH movie exactly what it should have been, instead of what it was).


These were not actually re-imaginings, so I won't be responding to this false analogy.

Quote:
Origins was a good copy (yes, I genuinely liked Origins, shall I tell you all the reasons why you're wrong not to? :wink: ),


Again, I'm not saying anyone's wrong for not liking something. Can you seriously stop being a douchebag about this?

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
Notes left: 18
AuraTwilight wrote:
All I'm saying is that Silent Hill is not an active entity that wants, behaves, and does things. It's a passive force or energy that lets the humans that visit it do thing on a subconscious level. There's no supernatural being fucking with James, he just has this inner conflict between truth/delusion and life/death, and is able to construct a world where he can work out these issues. I held this point of view before Shattered Memories was even announced.


That's cool, I get what you said, I'm just saying I saw things differently.

And really, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I get bored at work and things come out in a stream-of-consciousness way. Please imagine a stupid smirk on my face while I'm typing. I'm not a very serious person, and you are under no obligation to take me seriously. I know, I'm coming off as a douchebag, but I'm really just screwing around. Feel free to give it right back to me. I can take it, and I totally deserve it.

If you want me to stop the armchair psychoanalyzing, I will. But first, ask yourself, why do you want me to stop? Are you afraid of something here?

(Sorry, couldn't resist :) )


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I want you to stop because it's comparable to an ad hominem, and is like an attempt to derail the subject of conversation. It's like the following exchange: "I think we should do Plan X to accomplish Goal Y." "You're only saying that because you hate Minority Z, aren't you?" "No, it's because of Pragmatic Reasoning A and-" "Then why are you bothered by me accusing you of being racist? Unless it's true?"

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
Notes left: 18
AuraTwilight wrote:
I want you to stop because it's comparable to an ad hominem, and is like an attempt to derail the subject of conversation. It's like the following exchange: "I think we should do Plan X to accomplish Goal Y." "You're only saying that because you hate Minority Z, aren't you?" "No, it's because of Pragmatic Reasoning A and-" "Then why are you bothered by me accusing you of being racist? Unless it's true?"


I wasn't really expecting an answer, that was a joke--you tell me to stop psychoanalyzing, and I agree and then immediately ask another psychoanalyze-ey type question. Not a great joke, I admit, but just a joke.

I've never been good with internet etiquette--nobody can tell what's serious and what isn't. Not that everybody's stupid, but reading a sarcastic sentence, without seeing a facial expression or hearing a tone of voice, tends to make one take the sentence completely seriously. And I can never seem to remember that. I know, there's all these internet codewords for that kind of shit, but I never think to use them. I'm not easily offended, and so, while I never set out to purposefully offend, I never really try to avoid offending... but I often end up doing it. My bad.

But, to get back to the point of this thread, which is, I believe, reviewing Shattered Memories...it sucked ass, Aura. You are so wrong about it. (That was another joke. Well, the asshole way I said it was a joke, not my belief that the game sucked. You, of course, are completely entitled to your own wrong opinion on the subject.)

I know, I know... I just can't help it. :) I hope this doesn't mean we can't still be friends...


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
I wasn't really expecting an answer, that was a joke--you tell me to stop psychoanalyzing, and I agree and then immediately ask another psychoanalyze-ey type question. Not a great joke, I admit, but just a joke.


Yea, well, I don't like being the butt of criticizing jokes.

Quote:
I've never been good with internet etiquette--nobody can tell what's serious and what isn't. Not that everybody's stupid, but reading a sarcastic sentence, without seeing a facial expression or hearing a tone of voice, tends to make one take the sentence completely seriously. And I can never seem to remember that. I know, there's all these internet codewords for that kind of shit, but I never think to use them. I'm not easily offended, and so, while I never set out to purposefully offend, I never really try to avoid offending... but I often end up doing it. My bad.


I have the same problem, don't worry about it. What I usually do is try to read aloud what I've said in a serious tone of voice. If it sounds like it could be believably serious, edit it. If it's so obviously a joke, like "I bet Dahlia's a robot sent by the UFOs", then post it.

Quote:
But, to get back to the point of this thread, which is, I believe, reviewing Shattered Memories...it sucked ass, Aura. You are so wrong about it. (That was another joke. Well, the asshole way I said it was a joke, not my belief that the game sucked. You, of course, are completely entitled to your own wrong opinion on the subject.)


It can't of atleast sucked dick? That way you could still dislike it and us Shattered Memories fans can enjoy the BJ.

You and the other non-fans just don't swing that way. ^_^

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 10 Sep 2010
Notes left: 18
Oh thtop!


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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Do not spam. Next time you get a real warning. You've derailed this thread enough. Either contribute something worthwhile or move on.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3535
Humbordt, you are so totally saying assholish things and making up for it as little "jokes". Especially the way you're saying that Aura is "wrong" about his opinion. Sheesh, it's an opinion for God's sake. You can at least respect that. You remind me of a few previously banned members.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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Last seen at: i'm sick of these monkey fighting snakes on this monday to friday plane.
^Sheesh chill out sim, aura wasn't even getting mad he knew he was joking. It's over.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread

Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
Notes left: 791
Going to get this out of my system before I start a review:
Humbordt wrote:
it's an utter shame that Kubrick died before a SH movie was made, because I think his directing style would have made a SH movie exactly what it should have been, instead of what it was

As soon as I read that part, I saw what the film's title would have been: Doctor Kaufmann, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Cult. Aside from the lulz, Kubrick would have done a good job, but even then, people would hate on it for being a movie adaptation of a videogame.

And now, my review of Shattered Memories:

Is Shattered Memories a good Silent Hill game? For me it is, because I tend to look at two things no matter what videogame I'm playing, gameplay and story. Everything else is immaterial. Good graphics are nice to have, but they're not the be all and end all. Shattered Memories definitely had a good story. Gameplay on the other hand is subjective. Aside from puzzles, the therapy sessions and running away from Raw Shocks, the game could feel as if you're a mouse in a maze, being forced from one area to another. But there's nothing wrong with that in this game. Shattered Memories isn't about combat - there's no emergency hammer here. So there's only one thing left for Harry to do. Run away. He's searching for his daughter, Cheryl, just like in the first Silent Hill game. So, he's naturally going to be searching from one location to another, not hanging around one place for a long time.

Another good point of the game is that, if you've played the original game, that psychology warning might just prove true. People familiar with the first game might not realise that Shattered Memories is no simple remake and come at it with preconceived notions about how certain characters will act. The game will just blow those notions out the window, making it's
[Reveal] Spoiler:
twist ending
even more of a
[Reveal] Spoiler:
player punchout.
.

And then there's the puzzles and the psychological profile. The puzzles in this game at least aren't just excuses for fetch quests. And the psychological profile certainly makes the game different each time you play, which was a fun way of adding replay value.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Apr 2006
Notes left: 533
Last seen at: Nowhere
I don't think I posted here... but anyway...

I personally loved this game. It had an engaging story, engaging characters, and I thought the music fit it very well. The replay value is beyond excellent.

My only criticisms are: They should've just made it a new Silent Hill game and not a re-imagining... in my opinion there was no need to re-use the characters' names.

I would've also appreciated the game being a bit longer. It was probably as long as the average Silent Hill game, but once you replay it so much (since it DOES have a great replay value) you kind of wish there were more areas to go through throughout those replays.

Awesome game, though. I'd give it an 8 or 9 out of 10. There's few games that inspire my creative side and this game has helped to do just that. I still find myself playing it even after playing it over 10 times already. :D

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: The Review Thread
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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I hated, hated, hated this game.

My reasons: the main fault is it's just not scary. Seperating the nightmare sequences from the exploration sequences was a horrible idea. Exploration sequences aren't scary because there's no threat; you're just wandering around on an item hunt, doing the occaisonal wii puzzle.

Nightmare sequences aren't scary for a lot of reasons. The main one I'll talk about is a psychological factor that has to do with frustration vs fear. Generally, you can't be both frustrated and afraid at the same time. Notice how most of the negative reviews of SM complain about the "frustrating" nightmare sections. The problem is that you have to be used to something to be frustrated by it. Once you're used to it, you're no longer scared no matter how disturbing it's supposed to look.

The first time you are chased by the raw shocks, it is indeed scary. The 2nd and 3rd times, a bit less so. By the 10th or 11th time running through the same sequences, the fear is going to be heavily mitigated by sheer frustration. And that's just from the first chase scene... now think about the fact that all of the chase scenes are functionally the same. The monsters are the same, the environments are very similar... there are a few variations, like when the game requires you to take some pictures in the nightmare world. That sequence is easily the scariest in the game. But everything else around it is pure blah.

I also personally don't think SM is a very well written game. The other SH's aren't very well written either, but it works for them because of the off-putting way in which everyone talks. In SM everyone talks like a bad hollywood produced horror movie, much worse choice in my opinion. The subject matter also feels too tame for a SH game; the "horror" of Cheryl losing her father at a young age might be real to her, but to me it means exactly nothing. Especially as you only get to know Cheryl in a very indirect way throughout the game.

The ending is nicely done, but the the game sequences leading up to it feel anti-climatic to me. Swimming to a lighthouse; in SH2 rowing towards the lighthouse was just a buildup towards the climax. I'm not saying every game needs to have a boss fight, but it certainly makes the game feel like it has a climax, and if you can't think of a better one perhaps you should stick to the tried and true. Just an example off the top of my head: all the raw shocks group together and form a giant raw shock that chases you in a final nightmare sequence. Okay, it's not the most creative thing in the world, but it would've been better.

One other thing that really irritated me. The utterly wasted opening doors technique. SM introduced a completely awesome idea of allowing you to slowly open doors to peer inside... and then throws it away by never giving you a good place to use it. It's useless in nightmare sequences because stealth doesn't work in those. What a waste.

I like that they tried new things with SM, so it's certainly an interesting failure. But it's a failure to me none the less. Clearly, a lot of people found the game more frustrating than scary... I don't care what the story is like, Silent Hill is about horror first. If it fails as horror, it fails as a game.

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