SHSM and how it isn't compatible with the main timeline.

[PrescitedEntity]

At least not without some serious timeline mangling - to the point of being fanwank. When pulling up Cheryl's file on Midwich High's computer, her birthday comes up as 12/07/1983. This would affirms that she's twenty-five, and that the game is taking place in the now.

The problem? Check out the timeline created by MMY. Alessa was born in 1966. Cheryl was "born" in 1973. Heather was "born" in 1980. These dates are supported by the games themselves; looking at the footnotes, there's at least a concrete date given for Heather's "birthday", April 20th, from the Play Novel.

I don't see a reason for Cheryl to mess around with her own birthday in her head. That's just stretching too much. The Alessa stuff was borderline; this just makes it way too unlikely.

That said, it's still possible to link SH1 to SHSM. It's just that it's exclusive to SH1 (with the idea that SH2 can still take place in the same world) - no other games can take place in SHSM's timeline, because Cheryl's birthday is impossible to reconcile with her other incarnations. SH3's Heather cannot.

EDIT: Thanks to more discussion (courtesy of MMY, Droo, Yuki, and Aavri), here's a bit more description in case you don't wanna read the whole thread. Essentially, the ties to anything but SH1 are more or less impossible because SH4 gave us a concrete date of its occurrence. SH4 then extrapolates back to SH3, which gives a date for its occurrence, which ends up pinning SH1 as occurring sometime in 1980. SH4 also links to SH2, so this leads to a web where the pieces of the web have to be taken out in order for SHSM to link to the other games, which doesn't make sense.

[Yuki]

Well, if we're linking SHSM to SH1's bad ending, wouldn't that imply that the supernatural abilities were only from Cheryl's delusion and not the town itself, therefore negating the existence of SH2? (Then again, perhaps I'm mistaken; I get confused as to who argues ideal!Harry as a Maria-esque construct and who argues him as a complete delusion...)

[Henderson]

I prefer to think this game is in a parallel universe

[The Hawk's Eye]

It's pretty much what Tom said in one of the earlier interviews; the game simply isn't canon. I know he retracted that later due to fan outcry, but it's obvious he was simply backpedaling. His initial statement about Shattered Memories' continuity is pretty cut-and-dry; he explicitly states the game takes place in a separate universe, like the comics and movie. There's just no reasonably way to fit Shattered Memories into the existing Silent Hill timeline/story, especially with Kaufman being alive and employed in 2009.

[Yuki]

It's pretty much what Tom said in one of the earlier interviews; the game simply isn't canon. I know he retracted that later due to fan outcry, but it's obvious he was simply backpedaling. His initial statement about Shattered Memories' continuity is pretty cut-and-dry; he explicitly states the game takes place in a separate universe, like the comics and movie. There's just no reasonably way to fit Shattered Memories into the existing Silent Hill timeline/story, especially with Kaufman being alive and employed in 2009.

Well... you could argue that Kaufman in SH1 was simply a delusion from Harry in his dying moments, honestly.


Though I'm strongly in the camp that agrees with Tom's original statement. However... we don't know the reasoning behind him saying that it CAN be linked to canon; I don't remember him stating it was because of fan outcry. I do agree that it's alternate continuity from the rest of the Silent Hills, especially because they're calling it a re-imagining. I mean, sure, they HAD to do that to avoid spoilers, but at the same time they could've just said it's a new SH game and we'll have to play it to see the plot...

[PrescitedEntity]

Well, if we're linking SHSM to SH1's bad ending, wouldn't that imply that the supernatural abilities were only from Cheryl's delusion and not the town itself, therefore negating the existence of SH2? (Then again, perhaps I'm mistaken; I get confused as to who argues ideal!Harry as a Maria-esque construct and who argues him as a complete delusion...)

I'm going Maria-esque construct; complete delusion absolutely necessitates nothing else being in the SHSM canon, really.

As for my stance, from the start, I was on the fence between this being AU and it connecting to only SH1. Now, I think I'm siding towards being completely standalone. It's just fun trying to connect it to the previous SH games, though I think I'm limiting myself to SH1 from now on, given this in-universe stuff. After seeing her concrete birthday, what I'd only thought was true is almost certainly true - Climax intended this as a standalone. I don't trust Word of God from one person completely, but in-universe support like this is undeniable.

[The Hawk's Eye]

Well... you could argue that Kaufman in SH1 was simply a delusion from Harry in his dying moments, honestly.


Though I'm strongly in the camp that agrees with Tom's original statement. However... we don't know the reasoning behind him saying that it CAN be linked to canon; I don't remember him stating it was because of fan outcry. I do agree that it's alternate continuity from the rest of the Silent Hills, especially because they're calling it a re-imagining. I mean, sure, they HAD to do that to avoid spoilers, but at the same time they could've just said it's a new SH game and we'll have to play it to see the plot...

Getting SM to fit in the Silent Hill timeline is pretty much impossible without completely altering Origins, 1 and 3, (and by that, probably 4 as well) and I doubt Climax intended to rewrite just about the entire existing Silent Hill story/timeline, which is why SM is kept to its little universe. And of course Tom wouldn't claim to retract the statement because of fan outcry, because that would look unprofessional and sloppy (though him not understanding the "gravity" of the question seems about as bad considering his blatant and definite response on the matter from before).

[PrescitedEntity]

It's as official as can get, now, IMO. I don't even think it's worth it to try tying it in to SH1 any more, after this bit from Tomm's new blog post:

And that’s when it hit us… “Silent Hill” subverts reality. So a Silent Hill remake wouldn’t be the same as the original – it couldn’t, this was Silent Hill after all—it would be a “reimagining” designed specifically to twist and pervert the original’s storyline. So anyone who thought they knew what to expect would be surprised, betrayed, and messed with. So we set out to make Silent Hill 1 as seen through the eyes of Silent Hill.

This time, he made their intentions fully clear, rather than just calling it a remake without associations. SHSM was made to twist the original's storyline. Not to build off it.

[simeonalo]

Silent Hill:Shattered Memories and how it isn't related to any of the other main video games and how it takes place in it's own alternate universe.

[AuraTwilight]

To be fair, for a long time we all thought SH1 took place in 1983 and such. Maybe Climax just got the timeline wrong, instead of intentionally breaking a connection. It's not like it's really important, and it wouldn't be the first time they created a minor plothole or two.

[Silent One]

It's fairly easy to see how this doesn't connect without some serious mangling of the old games events.

The fact that it's called a "re-imagining" of the original should also imply this isn't of the same story as the original.

[Fredrick2003]

Exactly, it is in no way related to the main game. I wish people would stop this. Don't even think about it. People still think the SH movie was an accurate interpretation of events from the first game. We don't need any more misunderstandings.

Can you link the interview where he retracted that statement if you can find it (i'll keep looking). I don't recall him ever changing his stance?

[WolfSiberia]

looking at the footnotes, there's at least a concrete date given for Heather's "birthday", April 20th, from the Play Novel.

What the FUCK, that is my birthday o_____________o;

Which is also national weed day, and Hitler's birthday...

[PrescitedEntity]

To be fair, for a long time we all thought SH1 took place in 1983 and such. Maybe Climax just got the timeline wrong, instead of intentionally breaking a connection. It's not like it's really important, and it wouldn't be the first time they created a minor plothole or two.

Not only that, it's not as though we have to take the Play Novel for this continuity. If we were going to throw out SH4 and such anyways, it's not like any of the games HAVE to be included, and nothing in SH1 itself gives a concrete date, so...

[Droo]

My understanding was that virtually no one takes the Play Novel to be canon in any way shape or form.

[PrescitedEntity]

Which is for the best, unless you want to put Andy in there. And no one wants to do that.

That said... where are the concrete dates for things happening in SH1/SH3 coming from in that timeline, anyways? Were they just extrapolated from SH4?

I like how I keep changing my opinion on certain things... The only thing I feel sure of regarding the timeline and continuity is that this game would have trouble taking place in the same continuity as SH4 and SHH.

[Droo]

They apparently are coming in from inferring the exact date of Silent Hill 4 from Joseph's diary, which then can be extrapolated back to the rest of the games in the series.

Although I'm pretty sure Tommy's exact calendar date for SH1 comes from the Play Novel, which boggles me because he seems to otherwise largely (and correctly) ignore it.

[PrescitedEntity]

So in essence, if we disregard SH4, we should be fine? Because I don't remember anything from SH1 giving dates.

[Aavri]

Exactly, it is in no way related to the main game. I wish people would stop this. Don't even think about it. People still think the SH movie was an accurate interpretation of events from the first game. We don't need any more misunderstandings.

Can you link the interview where he retracted that statement if you can find it (i'll keep looking). I don't recall him ever changing his stance?

http://silenthillheaven.com/shsminterview.php

Second, a lot of people asked “Why make a non-canon game?” or “can you confirm this game isn’t canon?” or “Will you make a SH1 remake in the real canon?” etc etc. In an earlier interview I stated that this was a separate universe/canon from the PS1 original. However, I regret giving that answer; I didn’t realize the gravity of the question. Silent Hill is very unique as a series, because the games themselves are about a subjective reality. Each game has multiple endings and an argument could be made that each one of them is the "real" ending. This makes it very hard to even identify the “canonical” elements of the series as a whole. We know James went to Silent Hill looking for Mary… but we don’t know how or if he left. Not really. Shattered Memories, like the other games, deals with a subjective reality centered around the town of Silent Hill – I would say it’s just as canonical as any of the games. No, Shattered Memories doesn’t replace SH1 in the continuity. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t canonical. That, after all, is what sets Silent Hill apart from other video game series.

The lines that are underlined are what brings a group of people to belive this game is off the bad ending. As AuraTwilight, they could of easily got a date wrong or a plothole. It isn't the first time silent hill has faced plotholes *cough* Douglas' leg *cough* or wrong dates.

[PrescitedEntity]

I counter your quote with the quote I posted earlier:

And that’s when it hit us… “Silent Hill” subverts reality. So a Silent Hill remake wouldn’t be the same as the original – it couldn’t, this was Silent Hill after all—it would be a “reimagining” designed specifically to twist and pervert the original’s storyline. So anyone who thought they knew what to expect would be surprised, betrayed, and messed with. So we set out to make Silent Hill 1 as seen through the eyes of Silent Hill.

Not to build off SH1, but to twist SH1. It's obvious that Climax's intentions were to make this a re-imagining.

That doesn't mean we have to stop speculating, just that it's probably true that at best, they threw some hooks in there that would let a tie to SH1 happen. It certainly wasn't their main intention, or, perhaps, even an intention at all.

That said, I'm still trying to see if it works to tie SH1 to SHSM...