The UFO Ending doesn't mean anything. And lots of people support the "SH1/3/0 are delusions" theory precisely because they like the idea of the cult stuff never happening.Ya, but then you have Dr. K saying they already talked about that before in the UFO ending. But anyways, even if you were right, I don't think people would really want to go down the route, since it implies both Silent Hill 1, 3, and maybe origins never truly happened aka anything that involves Alessa and the cult. You'd be saying it was all just a session with Dr. K, and never happened, or just a fantasy in Cheryl's head. You're better off just saying it's just a parallel dimension, or in D.C. comic terms, another Earth.
SHSM and how it isn't compatible with the main timeline.
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TVTropes has a trope page for Slapstick Comedy. Violence is funny in sitcoms and cartoons all the time. I didn't say spousal abuse is funny.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Why the hell are people still nitpicking about how Shattered Memories doesn't fit into Silent Hill and Silent Hill 3's timeline?TMALIVE wrote:Another thing that make's SM's unworkable in the timeline is that in SH1, Harry's wife is dead, and died four years ago because she was sick. While in SM, Harry's wife is very much alive, as you see in the "Lost Love" ending, and possibly also the same person that Harry called and met at Cheryl's place. Well, unless you say SH1 was just a different session with a different psychiatrist, before she met Dr. K. But then you have Dr. K in the first game as well, except this time a Doctor. So you see, it just doesn't work.
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories takes place in an alternate universe that is DIFFERENT from the one that Team Silent established previously.
Even the name "Shattered Memories" spells it out CLEARLY for you in a noticeable double entendre (much like how the monsters are called "raw shocks", in fact).
Shattered Memories refers both to Harry Mason's (and later on revealed to be Cheryl's) fragmented memories of his life before the car accident and to how the entire game has completely turned the most knowledgeable of Silent Hill fans into newbs.
A good example of this is given ingame. I've never played Silent Hill or Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, but I know enough to be able to tell when Climax is ####ing with us.
Remember during one of the trailers, when a promiscuous looking version of what first appears to be Heather Mason says, "Who am I? I'm Dahlia."
That was a major indicator that the Silent Hill 1 - 3 universe =/= Silent Hill: Shattered Memories universe.
Video games often do this all the time. It's called retconning and producers use it to avoid complicated and overwinded explanations of how things came to be without creating massive plot holes and other inconsistencies on the way. In the Tomb Raider series, if I remember correctly, Lara was originally disowned by her own father in the first video game. Quite a few games down the track, we find out that a new continuity has been established for the sake of the timeline where Lara's father has been murdered and she needs to avenge his death.
It is obvious that you people take Silent Hill: The Movie with a pinch of salt in regards to how it relates to the original Silent Hill canon, so why should Shattered Memories be any different?
The Climax Group are trying to make a new continuity to ensure the survival of the series while still catering to the old fans, and it doesn't help that nitwits like you go, "DUH DIS SLIENT HIL DUZNT MAKE NO SENTS WIT DE ORIGINAL GAME WHY DOES HARY ND CHEYRL LIVE THERE BLAH BLAH BLAH."
Sorry for the degrading over use of noob language, but fans like you just can't seem to draw the line between Silent Hill and reality.
In conclusion, Shattered Memories takes place in a different continuity to Silent Hill 1 and 3 much like how the Metal Gear Acid series takes place in an alternate universe to the Metal Gear Solid franchise.
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... But I do have grounds.AuraTwilight wrote:Then why are you getting so pissed off in this thread? No need to be such an asshole if you have no ground to be yelling at some guy.I've never played Silent Hill or Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Irrelevant argument is irrelevant.
EDIT: By the way, what's up with that yelling argument?
I typed the message out onto a forum on the Internet.
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Good point.
And this-
But seriously, GET ON THE BALL and play SH1 and SH:SM!
And this-
-is an AWESOMELY good point.
It is obvious that you people take Silent Hill: The Movie with a pinch of salt in regards to how it relates to the original Silent Hill canon, so why should Shattered Memories be any different?
But seriously, GET ON THE BALL and play SH1 and SH:SM!
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
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You went on a huge tirade against someone for having an OPINION, and then go on to admit you haven't played the game or the one it's inspired by. Do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously between your complete inexperience with the topic and your rude, aggressive attitude?Cyrus Hanley wrote:... But I do have grounds. :?AuraTwilight wrote:Then why are you getting so pissed off in this thread? No need to be such an asshole if you have no ground to be yelling at some guy.I've never played Silent Hill or Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Irrelevant argument is irrelevant.
EDIT: By the way, what's up with that yelling argument?
I typed the message out onto a forum on the Internet. :roll:
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Yes, because I've read and seen enough to have a valid opinion on the topic.AuraTwilight wrote:You went on a huge tirade against someone for having an OPINION, and then go on to admit you haven't played the game or the one it's inspired by. Do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously between your complete inexperience with the topic and your rude, aggressive attitude?Cyrus Hanley wrote:... But I do have grounds.AuraTwilight wrote: Then why are you getting so pissed off in this thread? No need to be such an asshole if you have no ground to be yelling at some guy.
Irrelevant argument is irrelevant.
EDIT: By the way, what's up with that yelling argument?
I typed the message out onto a forum on the Internet.
By the way, it wasn't so much an opinion as a round-a-bout way of someone trying to convince themselves that the two continuities could co-exist in one universe.
Now that I think about it, this argument really reminds me of that thread where people were arguing as to whether or not the girl Travis saved from Dahlia's burning house was really Alessa or some decoy sacrifice.
But back to the main topic, Shattered Memories was never made with the intention of relating to the previously established continuity.
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^This is undeniably true. It was stated directly by the developers.But back to the main topic, Shattered Memories was never made with the intention of relating to the previously established continuity.
And your comparison of SM to the movie should, in a perfect world, put all arguments to rest, but alas.
Really though, if we as a community can accept the movie as an alternate-universe revisioning of SH1, accepting and admitting that it has absolutely no canonical connection to the universe of the games, then why should Shattered Memories be any different?
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Tomm also said you could try and fit it in if you really want to. It's obvious backpedalling, but it's not like they're adverse to it, and there's nothing wrong with speculation. You're still being overly aggressive and demeaning to people simply for entertaining theories. It's not like they're touting it as fact.Yes, because I've read and seen enough to have a valid opinion on the topic.
By the way, it wasn't so much an opinion as a round-a-bout way of someone trying to convince themselves that the two continuities could co-exist in one universe.
Now that I think about it, this argument really reminds me of that thread where people were arguing as to whether or not the girl Travis saved from Dahlia's burning house was really Alessa or some decoy sacrifice.
But back to the main topic, Shattered Memories was never made with the intention of relating to the previously established continuity.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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The only way to relate Shattered Memories to SH1 would be through the bad ending of 1. And that's only if the entirely of SH1 was a pre-death hallucination, and Cheryl was never in Silent Hill as we know it. Thus many things established as canon are made invalid, such as SH3. Cheryl was never reabsorbed into Alessa, and thus what he have is, in effect, an alternate future situation. This is the only way SM could work in the established canon. It must be an exploration of the futures possible with the bad ending on Silent Hill.
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
No, that is when things get off into a split timeline or split paths.rm2kking wrote:The only way to relate Shattered Memories to SH1 would be through the bad ending of 1. And that's only if the entirely of SH1 was a pre-death hallucination, and Cheryl was never in Silent Hill as we know it. Thus many things established as canon are made invalid, such as SH3. Cheryl was never reabsorbed into Alessa, and thus what he have is, in effect, an alternate future situation. This is the only way SM could work in the established canon. It must be an exploration of the futures possible with the bad ending on Silent Hill.
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I believe this is completly right, in SM's story Harry died, which as far as relating to every other game only fits the original in the Bad ending. Where it is generally accepted that the rest of the games fit in with the first ening as a Good or maybe Good +.rm2kking wrote:The only way to relate Shattered Memories to SH1 would be through the bad ending of 1. And that's only if the entirely of SH1 was a pre-death hallucination, and Cheryl was never in Silent Hill as we know it. Thus many things established as canon are made invalid, such as SH3. Cheryl was never reabsorbed into Alessa, and thus what he have is, in effect, an alternate future situation. This is the only way SM could work in the established canon. It must be an exploration of the futures possible with the bad ending on Silent Hill.
Technically any ending is just as valid as the last, only possibly being confirmed by a later game. So it easily fits that if two games confirm two different endings than they must occur as an alternate telling, or timeline, which means that while SM doesn't fit it isn't neccisarily a fake in the SH series.
The only other way I could see all the games fitting together would be that each game occurred in Harry's pre-death hallucination. It's slightly grim, but honestly it fits, explains both... Maybe not sadisfactorly though.
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True.AuraTwilight wrote:Tomm also said you could try and fit it in if you really want to. It's obvious backpedalling, but it's not like they're adverse to it, and there's nothing wrong with speculation. You're still being overly aggressive and demeaning to people simply for entertaining theories. It's not like they're touting it as fact.Yes, because I've read and seen enough to have a valid opinion on the topic.
By the way, it wasn't so much an opinion as a round-a-bout way of someone trying to convince themselves that the two continuities could co-exist in one universe.
Now that I think about it, this argument really reminds me of that thread where people were arguing as to whether or not the girl Travis saved from Dahlia's burning house was really Alessa or some decoy sacrifice.
But back to the main topic, Shattered Memories was never made with the intention of relating to the previously established continuity.
I really shouldn't have launched into a full-on argument but hey, that's what I like about these games. The circumstances surrounding each one can all be interpreted differently, to the point where crazy UFO conspiracies might possibly be on to something (or not... ).
I like the sound of this, Shattered Memories could be considered a sort of "What If"? game for fans.unoimalltht wrote:I believe this is completly right, in SM's story Harry died, which as far as relating to every other game only fits the original in the Bad ending. Where it is generally accepted that the rest of the games fit in with the first ening as a Good or maybe Good +.rm2kking wrote:The only way to relate Shattered Memories to SH1 would be through the bad ending of 1. And that's only if the entirely of SH1 was a pre-death hallucination, and Cheryl was never in Silent Hill as we know it. Thus many things established as canon are made invalid, such as SH3. Cheryl was never reabsorbed into Alessa, and thus what he have is, in effect, an alternate future situation. This is the only way SM could work in the established canon. It must be an exploration of the futures possible with the bad ending on Silent Hill.
Technically any ending is just as valid as the last, only possibly being confirmed by a later game. So it easily fits that if two games confirm two different endings than they must occur as an alternate telling, or timeline, which means that while SM doesn't fit it isn't neccisarily a fake in the SH series.
The only other way I could see all the games fitting together would be that each game occurred in Harry's pre-death hallucination. It's slightly grim, but honestly it fits, explains both... Maybe not sadisfactorly though.
What if Harry Mason had died in that car crash?
What if he hadn't found the epic hammer or any other weapons during his adventures in Silent Hill?
What if he had insecurities like all the other main characters (James, Alex, etc.)?
What if Cheryl had been the one with the doting love for her father, and not the other way around (as evidenced by Harry's original name "Humbert" from the novel Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov)?
etc. etc. etc.
Well, the thing about using it as a what-if, is that it also invalidates nearly EVERYTHING we knew about Silent Hill, the most important being Harry's relation to Dahlia and Harry's home. We know from SH1 that Harry did not live in Silent Hill, and that his wife died quite a long time ago. The only way at all for it to work out with SH1 is for all of SH1, including Harry's car crash and subsequent delusion of exploring Silent Hill, to have been another one of Cheryl's delusions... which just seems rather cheap to me.
Yeah, Tomm said that if you really want to you can find links to the original canon, but as said before, that's obvious backpedaling from his statement of, "No, it's an alternate universe". That notion of an alternate universe is supported by his saying multiple times that he wanted a new place for people to start in the Silent Hill universe that way they wouldn't have to understand the town's mythos; it would be a good starting point for newcomers to the series. It makes very little sense to have it actually link to canon if his intention was to reboot the series and make it friendly to newcomers.
Yeah, Tomm said that if you really want to you can find links to the original canon, but as said before, that's obvious backpedaling from his statement of, "No, it's an alternate universe". That notion of an alternate universe is supported by his saying multiple times that he wanted a new place for people to start in the Silent Hill universe that way they wouldn't have to understand the town's mythos; it would be a good starting point for newcomers to the series. It makes very little sense to have it actually link to canon if his intention was to reboot the series and make it friendly to newcomers.
I actually have come to the idea that the best thing for the series is to develop with future games different alternate universes. In other thread in the spoiler-free forums somebody said that "the further Silent Hill is from the cult stuff the better for it", a thing that I couldn't agree more. Unfortunaly, in the "established canon" the cult stuff had been expanded to a level that is something ridiculous and shameful -IMO- for the series' name.
I don't want more reboots, I would be greatly grateful if the new games -if there are- are actually stand-alone titles that doesn't try to connect between them and create an "established canon" -a thing, that IMHO was the biggest thing that began to kill the franchise.
I don't want more reboots, I would be greatly grateful if the new games -if there are- are actually stand-alone titles that doesn't try to connect between them and create an "established canon" -a thing, that IMHO was the biggest thing that began to kill the franchise.
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Silent Hill 2, according to the majority of fans, is by far the best game in the entire series so it would make sense to capitalize on the side stories of the town, which is what Climax did by reimagining Silent Hill instead of carrying on the crazy cult crap (thank goodness!).Escapist wrote:I actually have come to the idea that the best thing for the series is to develop with future games different alternate universes. In other thread in the spoiler-free forums somebody said that "the further Silent Hill is from the cult stuff the better for it", a thing that I couldn't agree more. Unfortunaly, in the "established canon" the cult stuff had been expanded to a level that is something ridiculous and shameful -IMO- for the series' name.
I don't want more reboots, I would be greatly grateful if the new games -if there are- are actually stand-alone titles that doesn't try to connect between them and create an "established canon" -a thing, that IMHO was the biggest thing that began to kill the franchise.
You can only resurrect a god out of a sacrificed human being so many times, and the same can be said for Silent Hill's tired old continuity surrounding the Order.
Besides, I'd imagine it's a lot scarier to be confronting manifestations of your own fears, insecurities, and depraved desires than it would be to confront a little girl's.
I've got no problem with the Cult, honestly, but I think it's a good idea to explore characters' psychologies. The Cult is part of the backstory of the original games: they tortured Alessa, her pain caused Silent Hill to awaken and create the Otherworld, and that's that. While I've no problem with the Cult, making more and more stories that hinge on it is a bit overboard.
Honestly, I'm going to disagree here. It may just be that I have a soft spot for the old "WOOJEEBOOJEE WE ARE EVIL CULT" style horror. It might just be my love for Lovecraft. And I actually feel like "it's all a delusion" cheapens the nature of otherworld immensely. . And, like Yuki, I understand the aversion to making stories that rely on the cult, but the Otherworld being not just people's delusions but also what is basically a cracked out version of the astral plane is probably my favorite part of the series.the further Silent Hill is from the cult stuff the better for it", a thing that I couldn't agree more.
And I actually think there are several interesting threads you could pursue with the cult storyline still. Only, instead of focusing on the god, you focus on the cult itself, and how it impacted the members inside of it socially and psychologically.
Of course it doesn't even have to be The Order, the threads you can still pursue and get something from could probably be applied to pretty much any scenario surrounding religious indoctrination or the results of intense religiosity in your social groups.
Aaah. That's probably where you and I diverge. My favorite game in the series was 3. Cult storyline and all.Silent Hill 2, according to the majority of fans
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You can have the Otherworld be an astral plane without invoking an evil Lovecraftian cult. Look at Silent Hill 2.Honestly, I'm going to disagree here. It may just be that I have a soft spot for the old "WOOJEEBOOJEE WE ARE EVIL CULT" style horror. It might just be my love for Lovecraft. And I actually feel like "it's all a delusion" cheapens the nature of otherworld immensely. . And, like Yuki, I understand the aversion to making stories that rely on the cult, but the Otherworld being not just people's delusions but also what is basically a cracked out version of the astral plane is probably my favorite part of the series.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
Except, the whole reason the Otherworld started manifesting was the Order. Barring Origins' mess-up of the Otherworld theory, from what we know of Silent Hill, it's always been a mystical place but the Otherworld never showed up until Alessa was burned. SH2 doesn't explain the Otherworld, but it is a product of the Cult's activity nonetheless.AuraTwilight wrote:You can have the Otherworld be an astral plane without invoking an evil Lovecraftian cult. Look at Silent Hill 2.Honestly, I'm going to disagree here. It may just be that I have a soft spot for the old "WOOJEEBOOJEE WE ARE EVIL CULT" style horror. It might just be my love for Lovecraft. And I actually feel like "it's all a delusion" cheapens the nature of otherworld immensely. . And, like Yuki, I understand the aversion to making stories that rely on the cult, but the Otherworld being not just people's delusions but also what is basically a cracked out version of the astral plane is probably my favorite part of the series.