Is This Game Killing Silent Hill?

[Mis Krist.]

>But...they didn't do that. There was rhyme and reason to what they did.

Neat. I don't see that rhyme or reason, so I'm arguing otherwise.

>Climax established a version of Silent Hill that is completely theirs, not another development team's.

Again, I don't like what they did so what pleases you doesn't please me. I don't like "their" Silent Hill. It doesn't feel new or innovative or interesting to me. Yay for you if you feel otherwise. I've read and watched a bunch of things with similar feels and attempts at psychological concepts* to the point where I wasn't surprised or impressed in the slightest. Once more, yay for you if you feel otherwise. I'm glad you were able to enjoy the game and what it offered to you.

>People can't bitch that it doesn't hold a candle to what Team Silent did or that it didn't create the same atmosphere that Team Silent did--and Climax doesn't have to feel obligated to emulate the accomplishments of another team--because they weren't trying to do that.

Nor do I think they were, and I'm not bitching (not that I thought you were accusing me of that). Again, I just don't like their take on the SH games and experiences so far. It's not something that serves my palate.

>If you work in a creative profession, you know that there's nothing that kills creativity quicker then having to emulate someone else's work. That's a great way to learn technically, but the actual work it produces is shit.

I would imagine a truly creative person wouldn't feel pressured by emulation and would find ways to make it work for them--but that's just my opinion.




*

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American Psycho
A Beautiful Mind
House of Leaves
The Sixth Sense
Secret Rendezvous
Fight Club
Memento
Session 9
Jacob's Ladder
The Machinist


All have psychological wtfery in them, and all required close viewing/reading in order to pick out these details. I'm not comparing the stories or plots of them to SM. I'm comparing the experience and the requirement for the reader/viewer to be very meticulous and observant.

[Skele]

i'm kinda with Krist.

anyway I actually kind of like SM's story, but would've preferred Climax just left any and everything that had to do with the original game alone. there's a number of ways to tell this story without using any of the characters/scenarios from the first game. IMO, this didn't have to be a re-imagining for it to work.

also, SH2 did a good job of staying within the SH universe while presenting a story that was unique, and mostly unrelated to the cult stuff. however, i'm glad so many folks enjoy this game. even though right now Climax is 0-2 with me, if they get another shot, maybe the 3rd time's the charm?

[Mis Krist.]

^ That's how I feel, really. I'm not pleased with Origins or SM, but if Climax has a go at another game and I actually like what they do, I'll be quite pleased and willing to overlook the previous two let-downs.

[LuLu]

I really enjoyed this game, but I will agree that it was the most simple of the series.

BUT! That doesn't take away from the fact that it was still an emotionally involved game, regardless of how many loose ends were left (or weren't left, for that matter) in the end.

Yes, it generally takes more time to figure out everything by the end of every other Silent Hill game, but people will enjoy what they enjoy. Some people enjoy more complex story lines while others enjoy more simplistic ones, therefore I don't believe this game is killing Silent Hill at all. It was just a completely different approach to the game and Climax mentioned this before the game even came out, if I recall correctly.

I personally enjoyed the game immensely, though I wouldn't say it's better than any of the other Silent Hill games... just different. The only thing that disappointed me about the game was its length and simple twist in the end (I'm one of those people who prefer more complex games that make you think about it for months or years).

EDIT: I also agree with Skele when it comes to the fact that this game didn't need to be a re-imagining. It could've used new characters altogether since the characters literally had just about nothing in common with the true SH1 characters.

[pj]

>But...they didn't do that. There was rhyme and reason to what they did.

Neat. I don't see that rhyme or reason, so I'm arguing otherwise.

>Climax established a version of Silent Hill that is completely theirs, not another development team's.

Again, I don't like what they did so what pleases you doesn't please me. I don't like "their" Silent Hill. It doesn't feel new or innovative or interesting to me. Yay for you if you feel otherwise. I've read and watched a bunch of things with similar feels and attempts at psychological concepts to the point where I wasn't surprised or impressed in the slightest. Once more, yay for you if you feel otherwise. I'm glad you were able to enjoy the game and what it offered to you.

>People can't bitch that it doesn't hold a candle to what Team Silent did or that it didn't create the same atmosphere that Team Silent did--and Climax doesn't have to feel obligated to emulate the accomplishments of another team--because they weren't trying to do that.

Nor do I think they were, and I'm not bitching (not that I thought you were accusing me of that). Again, I just don't like their take on the SH games and experiences so far. It's not something that serves my palate.

Haha, well, all of that's fair enough then

>If you work in a creative profession, you know that there's nothing that kills creativity quicker then having to emulate someone else's work. That's a great way to learn technically, but the actual work it produces is shit.

I would imagine a truly creative person wouldn't feel pressured by emulation and would find ways to make it work for them--but that's just my opinion.

Oh man, well, its true that most forms of pressure push us creatives to find clever solutions most of the time, but there's nothing at all healthy of conducive about having to try and fill someone else's shoes. When that happens, you're not being a truly creative person at all, because you're not actually utilizing your own creativity--you're just trying to copy someone else's.

The only way to find a way to make emulation work for you is to inject some of your own creativity into it--and since everyone's different, that almost always involves changing things. Look at ALIENS and ALIEN--two great movies, but even though they share the same characters and continue one story, they're told with the distinct sensibilities of each film's director. If James Cameron had felt compelled to just copy Ridley Scott's style, his movie wouldn't have come off half as good because his heart wouldn't have been in it.

You have to be able to instill a bit of yourself into all of your creative output, or else it comes out contrived. Maybe that's why I get so excited about Shattered Memories; its clear to me that their hearts were completely in the effort, and I think the pay off is magnificent.

P.S. You're correct, I didn't at all mean to accuse you of bitching in anyway, so I'm glad I didn't come off like that

[Yuki]

^ This. Creativity can thrive under boundaries, but not when the boundaries are set too closely. They decided to play within the boundaries of "Harry searching for his daughter, with creepy crazy monsters along the way", and subverted everything we knew about Silent Hill.

[Escapist]

The onyl bad thing is that if Climax would have done SM not as a re-imagining but as an original entry, everybody (including myself) would be bitching of how it would be better for them to make just a new franchise.

[Mis Krist.]

Ahh, I actually didn't like either film (ALIENS or ALIEN) but I won't let that interfere. I understand what you mean, I just have a different take on creativity I guess. No worries :3

Again (I'm saying that a lot...) I'm happy you and others are able to enjoy this game. If this is the breath of fresh air into the series that you all needed, that's fantastic and I'm happy you're able to enjoy it. In the mean time, I'm happy with previous installments and I'll just be patient 'til my own happiness comes along.

[Droo]

So, Krist, I take it then that you take exception to The Dark Knight and Heath Ledger's Joker in particular? Because that was taking an existing character and turning it on its head to do something different with him.

The very things you take issue with the use of SH1 characters in SM can easily be applied to TDK and Nolan's entire revamp of the Batman franchise. Yet, if I recall correctly, you adored Heath Ledger's interpretation of Joker. Which is it, then? Or does it just bother you when you actually give a shit about the source material in reacting to one reinterpretation (Silent Hill) as opposed to a source you don't follow (Batman)?

[Mis Krist.]

I bet you feel clever. No, I'm not as invested with the Batman series as I am with Silent Hill. Ergo, I don't give a damn what Nolan did to those characters. I don't see that as a bad thing, and I'm sorry if you do. Of course I'm going to be more bothered at Climax + Silent Hill than Nolan + Batman--because I actually care about Silent Hill. Of course I'm only going to be bothered when " actually give a shit about the source material." Not really seeing where the outrage is there O_o It stands to reason a person is going to care about a change when, y'know, they care about what's changed in the first place.

That being said, Nolan's re-imagining and reboot of the franchise wasn't a disappointment for me. Shattered Memories was. So it also depends on whether the final product is pleasing or not--which I've been saying for the past page and a half now.

I'm really confused as to why people can't get that some people just like things and other people don't? Sometimes there's very little explanation needed besides that. Brow-beating a naysayer isn't really going to do much to change their mind or make you (ubiquitous) any more "right" or "true." No one is right here. I'm not saying I feel harassed or attacked, just confused as to why NO ONE can seem to speak negative feelings about this game without calling in the hive.

Forgive me if this is way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting based on my observations and now personal experience with you fans.

[Catch22]

How DARE you have a different opinion than me. How can you not like something I like? That's just ludicrous. You are ludicrous.

[Mis Krist.]

Your mom was ludicrous last night, yo.

[Catch22]

Your mom was ludicrous last night, yo.

My mom is a remake. You seem to like her, and yet you don't like Shattered Memories?

Checkmate, chump.

[VIVIsect]

Your mom is NOT a remake. She's a reimagining. A REEEEEIMAGINING! Get it right.

[Catch22]

Your mom is NOT a remake. She's a reimagining. A REEEEEIMAGINING! Get it right.

No, my step-mom's a reimagining.

[Des573]

What's wrong with the other entries?

[Mis Krist.]

Your mom was ludicrous last night, yo.

My mom is a remake. You seem to like her, and yet you don't like Shattered Memories?

So that's why I was disappointed....


>When I heard her, I drooped. What's wrong with the other entries?


What does this have to do with anything we're talking about? D:

[pj]

I bet you feel clever. No, I'm not as invested with the Batman series as I am with Silent Hill. Ergo, I don't give a damn what Nolan did to those characters. I don't see that as a bad thing, and I'm sorry if you do. Of course I'm going to be more bothered at Climax + Silent Hill than Nolan + Batman--because I actually care about Silent Hill. Of course I'm only going to be bothered when " actually give a shit about the source material." Not really seeing where the outrage is there O_o It stands to reason a person is going to care about a change when, y'know, they care about what's changed in the first place.

That being said, Nolan's re-imagining and reboot of the franchise wasn't a disappointment for me. Shattered Memories was. So it also depends on whether the final product is pleasing or not--which I've been saying for the past page and a half now.

I'm really confused as to why people can't get that some people just like things and other people don't? Sometimes there's very little explanation needed besides that. Brow-beating a naysayer isn't really going to do much to change their mind or make you (ubiquitous) any more "right" or "true." No one is right here. I'm not saying I feel harassed or attacked, just confused as to why NO ONE can seem to speak negative feelings about this game without calling in the hive.

Forgive me if this is way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting based on my observations and now personal experience with you fans.

I certainly don't want this to turn into some stupid flame war, but here's my $.02.

I think the point Droo was shooting for is that with, say, Nolan's reimagining of Batman, you're more receptive because he's not changing something that's dear to you. So you go along with him and experience what he has to show you with an open mind, and therefore you're able to enjoy it to the fullest.

Now, if you don't like Shattered Memories because its not your cup of tea, that's totally cool. Nothing wrong with differing opinions, if we all thought the same our conversations would be pretty damn boring.

But I think what Droo is getting at, and what worries me, is the possibility of people not enjoying Shattered Memories to the fullest because you're fighting against Climax's request that you let go of the cherished and familiar elements of the franchise you love so dearly. Sure, its natural for you to respond negatively--like you said, Krist, you love Silent Hill.

To go back to TDK, I know people who hate Nolan's Batman films solely because of the Rachel character, who wasn't in the comics. Even though

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she blew up in TDK

they still hold a grudge against the entire rebooted series just because it changed something they loved. I'll be the first to admit that character was weak, but would you say that's a worthwhile reason for disregarding two fantastic movies?

If you were underwhelmed by SM or just didn't like it, there's nothing at all wrong with that. But if you're resisting the changes Climax is making and hating them because its changing something that you're close to, instead of letting go and experiencing their take on story with an open mind, then you're just not letting yourself experience it to the fullest, and you might be missing out. With this game that's so dear to me, that's the only thing worrying me.

Which is why I'm so helpless to keep my mouth shut in these conversations but I certainly don't want to come across like I'm trying to force you to accept my opinion or anything like that.

[Catch22]

Your mom was ludicrous last night, yo.

My mom is a remake. You seem to like her, and yet you don't like Shattered Memories?

So that's why I was disappointed....

BA-ZING.

[Mis Krist.]

Actually, I approached SM with as much of an open mind as I could try to have. I had my doubts and my misgivings, but I had that about all SH games since I came into the franchise as a fan--and as all times prior, I ignored them or put them aside until I could play the game. My motto for the games has usually been to remain optimistic or at least empty of opinion until I experience them for myself.

Please don't lump me together with people who are too stubborn to accept change. I'm not such a person at all. That's another part of my disappointment: I may not have liked what Climax showed me but I went in hoping to be proven wrong or at least hoping to come out of the game the same way I've done with previous games I've had doubts about: to still have those doubts, but to have the experience outweigh the bad.

It didn't. I am disappoint. Fin.