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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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The girl they drugged is clearly Cheryl; you can tell by looking at her. I was referring to whoever owned the pink jacket and wallet, which didn't seem like they were Cheryl's, since they were bloodied, and a streak of blood leading to this big-ass pit. There's, of course, also the two boys who drowned. Cheryl may or may not have been witness to that.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Day Trippers set. I'm pretty sure it follows Cheryl, Harry, and Dahlia on their trip to the Resort Town (which explains who was holding the camera that shot that all-too-familiar footage of Harry and Cheryl at the Lakeside Amusement Park). The details vary, but it starts with the echo message from the map (on top of the car after exiting Annie's Bar) which gives us a snapshot of Harry and Dahlia's strained relationship, then there is the photo message at the Knight/Princess cut-out which shows us what Harry and Cheryl's relationship is like, and finally there are the two echo messages in the Tunnel of Love, where Cheryl sneaks in hoping to see her parents 'being happy', catching them in various states of reconciliation/non-reconciliation, after which they react.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Dec 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
The girl they drugged is clearly Cheryl; you can tell by looking at her. I was referring to whoever owned the pink jacket and wallet, which didn't seem like they were Cheryl's, since they were bloodied, and a streak of blood leading to this big-ass pit. There's, of course, also the two boys who drowned. Cheryl may or may not have been witness to that.


Any guess as to what's up with my brother getting a message that the girl died? It was hard to tell because you could only see her in profile, but it looked like the chick with half her face frozen in ice was Cheryl, too.

And yeah, like I said a few posts ago, I think the clothes were Cheryl's, although admittedly my assessment of the blood takes a much more metaphorical route. I think it works out nicely, though.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Any guess as to what's up with my brother getting a message that the girl died? It was hard to tell because you could only see her in profile, but it looked like the chick with half her face frozen in ice was Cheryl, too.


I've never gotten it, so I don't know what to tell you. Cheryl manifesting suicidal fantasies, or something? Can anyone show me the picture and message?

Quote:
And yeah, like I said a few posts ago, I think the clothes were Cheryl's, although admittedly my assessment of the blood takes a much more metaphorical route. I think it works out nicely, though.


I think it's a stretch; no other instance seems to use such liberal metaphor.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Dec 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
And yeah, like I said a few posts ago, I think the clothes were Cheryl's, although admittedly my assessment of the blood takes a much more metaphorical route. I think it works out nicely, though.


I think it's a stretch; no other instance seems to use such liberal metaphor.


I dunno, it does a damn good job of suggesting the extreme and damaging effect rape would have on a young girl. And it seems more likely from a storytelling perspective that they'd focus on a constant tenant of the plotline--Cheryl getting sexually assaulted--as opposed to something that appears to be a variable (I still haven't been able to trigger any messages about a murder, or anyone getting killed except for frozen-face-girl).

Besides, the mall was covered in pretty liberal metaphors for how a center of superficial, commercial obsession would make a young, insecure, troubled girl feel.

----- Time to switch gears for a sec... -----

I don't know if this is really on anyone's radar anymore in this conversation, but about Cheryl stabbing the security guard in the mall:

There was a ghost photo you could take near the movie theater that had a message talking about the stabbing:

http://shshatteredmemories.com/echo-photos/

Scroll down to "Echo Photo 7" and listen there.

(P.S. Thanks to Whitney for the great site )

Also, I'm not sure if this changes from game to game, but the bloody knife in the locker is in a plastic "Exhibit A" bag. Its actually very hard to make out if you press A to examine the locker closely (you can just see some red, and the rest does indeed look like a bag of cotton balls or something) but if you zoom in with the Z button in normal exploration mode and look into the locker that way, its very easy to see what it is.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11370
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
I dunno, it does a damn good job of suggesting the extreme and damaging effect rape would have on a young girl. And it seems more likely from a storytelling perspective that they'd focus on a constant tenant of the plotline--Cheryl getting sexually assaulted--as opposed to something that appears to be a variable (I still haven't been able to trigger any messages about a murder, or anyone getting killed except for frozen-face-girl).


What makes you think Cheryl was sexually assaulted? And I looked at the picture, finally. Frozen-face-girl isn't actually frozen, she's just lying on the ice. She's not at any degree submerged or frozen.

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Besides, the mall was covered in pretty liberal metaphors for how a center of superficial, commercial obsession would make a young, insecure, troubled girl feel.


Lol, huh? There was hardly any metaphor at all.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Dec 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
I dunno, it does a damn good job of suggesting the extreme and damaging effect rape would have on a young girl. And it seems more likely from a storytelling perspective that they'd focus on a constant tenant of the plotline--Cheryl getting sexually assaulted--as opposed to something that appears to be a variable (I still haven't been able to trigger any messages about a murder, or anyone getting killed except for frozen-face-girl).


What makes you think Cheryl was sexually assaulted? And I looked at the picture, finally. Frozen-face-girl isn't actually frozen, she's just lying on the ice. She's not at any degree submerged or frozen.


The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.

I think if there was some sort of murder that took place, there would've been a clearer sign. They gave us some pretty clear signs that she stabbed someone later, after all.

Quote:
Quote:
Besides, the mall was covered in pretty liberal metaphors for how a center of superficial, commercial obsession would make a young, insecure, troubled girl feel.


Lol, huh? There was hardly any metaphor at all.


I can't remember what it said, but there was something written on a wall after the mall chase sequence that referred to the mall eating girls, or something. The "I HATE MY FACE" mirror, the empty and barren stores and general disarray even though according to several calls the mall was still operational, the toy shop with the doll house that had a working TV set the size of a quarter, the ridiculous amount of teddy bears in that one hallway where you hear Cheryl-Larval-Stalker crying, the dolls that were holding their own decapitated heads...maybe its just me, but almost all of the mall struck me as metaphorical.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.


The girl calling her mother is Jackie, not Cheryl. And I don't think the part on Bryant's Lookout happened on the same night as the wild-as-shit party. Even then, being sexually assaulted and being sexually abused aren't necessarily the same thing.

[/quote]I think if there was some sort of murder that took place, there would've been a clearer sign. They gave us some pretty clear signs that she stabbed someone later, after all.[/quote]

You're right, but the same would be true of her being raped or sexually assaulted or anything. Taking drugs, taking your clothes off, and running around like a twitching moron doesn't mean two guys hogtied her down and spitroasted her on their cocks or something.

Quote:
I can't remember what it said, but there was something written on a wall after the mall chase sequence that referred to the mall eating girls, or something. The "I HATE MY FACE" mirror, the empty and barren stores and general disarray even though according to several calls the mall was still operational, the toy shop with the doll house that had a working TV set the size of a quarter, the ridiculous amount of teddy bears in that one hallway where you hear Cheryl-Larval-Stalker crying, the dolls that were holding their own decapitated heads...maybe its just me, but almost all of the mall struck me as metaphorical.


I think you're stretching a bit.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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I remember that in my playthrough that a girl did end up dead at the party. She was drunk and fell into the Toluca and drowned. Some kid there took a picture of her corpse and Harry got it on his cell. That could also be a reason to explain that phone conversation that could possibly pertain to Cheryl, going with that theory, Cheryl may have wanted to leave after the girl died.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Dec 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.


The girl calling her mother is Jackie, not Cheryl. And I don't think the part on Bryant's Lookout happened on the same night as the wild-as-shit party. Even then, being sexually assaulted and being sexually abused aren't necessarily the same thing.


She only identifies herself as Jackie sometimes. And her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's to be a coincidence. If we're going to say that Cheryl with her face in the ice in a text message that says the girl drowned is just Cheryl exhibiting suicidal tendencies, then I say the girl calling for help from her mom--and not receiving it--is Cheryl. Fits in perfectly with Cheryl's feelings towards Dahlia (and indirectly Harry) anyway.

Quote:
Quote:
I think if there was some sort of murder that took place, there would've been a clearer sign. They gave us some pretty clear signs that she stabbed someone later, after all.


You're right, but the same would be true of her being raped or sexually assaulted or anything. Taking drugs, taking your clothes off, and running around like a twitching moron doesn't mean two guys hogtied her down and spitroasted her on their cocks or something.


Cheryl goes to a party, is uncomfortable, can't escape, takes drugs, and then gets naked around the people that very people that were making her "uncomfortable." We find bloody sleeping bags, bloody discarded clothes, and a shed where the shadow of a girl is cowering. Rape is a violent act (clothes + sleeping bag + blood), its something that she'd be mortified and ashamed of (cowering), and when girls lose their virginity they bleed (blood).

That is a lot of violent, sexually-charged imagery. On the other hand, there are almost no clues whatsoever about a murder (none at all that I've ever found). I'm sorry, I just fail to see how I'm stretching anything with this theory.

Quote:
Quote:
I can't remember what it said, but there was something written on a wall after the mall chase sequence that referred to the mall eating girls, or something. The "I HATE MY FACE" mirror, the empty and barren stores and general disarray even though according to several calls the mall was still operational, the toy shop with the doll house that had a working TV set the size of a quarter, the ridiculous amount of teddy bears in that one hallway where you hear Cheryl-Larval-Stalker crying, the dolls that were holding their own decapitated heads...maybe its just me, but almost all of the mall struck me as metaphorical.


I think you're stretching a bit.


Maybe you and I just visit different shopping malls.


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Historical Society Historian
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pj wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.


The girl calling her mother is Jackie, not Cheryl. And I don't think the part on Bryant's Lookout happened on the same night as the wild-as-shit party. Even then, being sexually assaulted and being sexually abused aren't necessarily the same thing.


She only identifies herself as Jackie sometimes. And her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's to be a coincidence. If we're going to say that Cheryl with her face in the ice in a text message that says the girl drowned is just Cheryl exhibiting suicidal tendencies, then I say the girl calling for help from her mom--and not receiving it--is Cheryl. Fits in perfectly with Cheryl's feelings towards Dahlia (and indirectly Harry) anyway.


Er... as far as I remember, in every echo the voices are different. Like, you don't hear Cheryl, Dahlia, and Harry's voices; you hear random people. So "her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's" is somewhat an invalid argument.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Dec 2008
Notes left: 264
Yuki wrote:
pj wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.


The girl calling her mother is Jackie, not Cheryl. And I don't think the part on Bryant's Lookout happened on the same night as the wild-as-shit party. Even then, being sexually assaulted and being sexually abused aren't necessarily the same thing.


She only identifies herself as Jackie sometimes. And her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's to be a coincidence. If we're going to say that Cheryl with her face in the ice in a text message that says the girl drowned is just Cheryl exhibiting suicidal tendencies, then I say the girl calling for help from her mom--and not receiving it--is Cheryl. Fits in perfectly with Cheryl's feelings towards Dahlia (and indirectly Harry) anyway.


Er... as far as I remember, in every echo the voices are different. Like, you don't hear Cheryl, Dahlia, and Harry's voices; you hear random people. So "her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's" is somewhat an invalid argument.


?

I've only ever heard two echoes in the instance we're referring to here, and in both instances it was the same voice actor, and that voice actor sounded almost identical to Cheryl. In only one of those times she called herself Jackie. So...not sure how that's invalid.

I don't know what to tell you about you hearing a different voice in every echo, because I sure as hell didn't. There are several echoes throughout the game that are clearly Harry and his family, and then there are a few separate series of echoes that are the same voices throughout.


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Historical Society Historian
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It doesn't matter. They have Heather Morris voice a lot of the female echo messages, such as "Caitlin", who is guaranteed not to be Cheryl, since she's open with her boyfriend, is very popular, and was prom queen.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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pj wrote:
Yuki wrote:
pj wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
The ghost shot of her in the car directly after the forest chase, the sleeping bag, the discarded clothes, the call to Dahlia to come pick her up because she's feeling uncomfortable, the fact that she was taking drugs and running around naked in a party that was already making her feel uncomfortable...that all just seemed like waaaay too many clues with an undercurrent of sexual abuse.


The girl calling her mother is Jackie, not Cheryl. And I don't think the part on Bryant's Lookout happened on the same night as the wild-as-shit party. Even then, being sexually assaulted and being sexually abused aren't necessarily the same thing.


She only identifies herself as Jackie sometimes. And her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's to be a coincidence. If we're going to say that Cheryl with her face in the ice in a text message that says the girl drowned is just Cheryl exhibiting suicidal tendencies, then I say the girl calling for help from her mom--and not receiving it--is Cheryl. Fits in perfectly with Cheryl's feelings towards Dahlia (and indirectly Harry) anyway.


I didn't mean each echo had variations, I meant that the voices themselves weren't Cheryl or Dahlia or Harry. For instance, in the Cabin Nightmare Puzzle, the voicemail sounds nothing like young!Cheryl's voice to me; same goes for the Mall Nightmare Puzzle, and the male voice doesn't sound like Harry to me, either. I listened to them several times to try and hear, and they didn't sound similar, in my opinion.

Er... as far as I remember, in every echo the voices are different. Like, you don't hear Cheryl, Dahlia, and Harry's voices; you hear random people. So "her voice sounds way too damn close to Cheryl's" is somewhat an invalid argument.


?

I've only ever heard two echoes in the instance we're referring to here, and in both instances it was the same voice actor, and that voice actor sounded almost identical to Cheryl. In only one of those times she called herself Jackie. So...not sure how that's invalid.

I don't know what to tell you about you hearing a different voice in every echo, because I sure as hell didn't. There are several echoes throughout the game that are clearly Harry and his family, and then there are a few separate series of echoes that are the same voices throughout.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2008
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pj wrote:
Cheryl goes to a party, is uncomfortable, can't escape, takes drugs, and then gets naked around the people that very people that were making her "uncomfortable." We find bloody sleeping bags, bloody discarded clothes, and a shed where the shadow of a girl is cowering. Rape is a violent act (clothes + sleeping bag + blood), its something that she'd be mortified and ashamed of (cowering), and when girls lose their virginity they bleed (blood).
Um, I'm sorry to break it to you, but bleeding when the hymen breaks is pretty uncommon, and it pretty much is just a smear on your panties, not gallons of blood all over the inside of a shed. Hymens are REALLY easy to break and most girls have lost them by the time they lose their virginities anyway, whether or not they've ever been penetrated by anything.

So that leaves you with a pink coat and a sleeping bag... which really isn't a lot to go on.

Also, I'm curious to know why someone named Cheryl Heather Mason would go by Jackie. I know a Nathan Tanner who goes by Tanner because he hates the name Nathan. I know a Brittany Nicole who goes by Nikki... but I don't see how you get Jackie from Cheryl Heather.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2009
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Nasta wrote:
pj wrote:
Cheryl goes to a party, is uncomfortable, can't escape, takes drugs, and then gets naked around the people that very people that were making her "uncomfortable." We find bloody sleeping bags, bloody discarded clothes, and a shed where the shadow of a girl is cowering. Rape is a violent act (clothes + sleeping bag + blood), its something that she'd be mortified and ashamed of (cowering), and when girls lose their virginity they bleed (blood).
Um, I'm sorry to break it to you, but bleeding when the hymen breaks is pretty uncommon, and it pretty much is just a smear on your panties, not gallons of blood all over the inside of a shed. Hymens are REALLY easy to break and most girls have lost them by the time they lose their virginities anyway, whether or not they've ever been penetrated by anything.


Lots of girls are different. I know someone who bled A LOT. I wouldn't say it's uncommon. =/
Then again, you can end up bleeding if you were raped violently even if you weren't a virgin.

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Historical Society Historian
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So you know one person whose hymen busted like the elevator scene in The Shining and through that one girl, you deduce that it's not uncommon?

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Just Passing Through
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I lol'd when I shouldn't have. xD Don't say it like that.

But all the girls I know bled. Except 1.

Then again, everyone's different so I wouldn't say it was all 'uncommon'. Maybe Cheryl wasn't a very active girl at all and did bleed?

But like I said, if it was a violent rape, she'd probably bleed.

Or hell, maybe they just wanted to hint at rape so they used blood because we all know where there's rape, there's blood. Apparently. Oh Climax.

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There's something I've forgotten
Like a time, a place...?
A shattered memory.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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No no, I meant for my post to be a bit of a joke. Lols are appropriate. I just find the misconceptions (or preconceived notions leading to perpetuated misconceptions?) about vaginas and what happens with them intriguing, I guess.

This has gone downhill really fast D: Sorry.

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Historical Society Historian
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assassin'screed2 wrote:
You need a hobby... BESIDES VAGINAS!

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