Cheryl is Heather?

[NeoAquarius12]

I wasn't serious. lol. I feel like I just got Descarted. God is good so he won't lie to you or trick you!

Your humor makes me want to push children over while their parents aren't looking. : / Pretty much, your just throwing out complete nonsense to keep this thread going.

I disagree. I just had things to say. Or defend my own position. I don't think that's the same as trying to make a thread stay open. I just wanted it to be clear that I wasn't serious about the space and time comment, and well, that seems weak, so I threw a joke in o liven it up a little. Make it seem less defensive. I don't want to be controversial.

[Dogg Thang]

And SH1 has him die so this can't be the same fucking Dr. Kauffman in the first place since the original wasn't a psychological therapist.

He must be telling the truth because he's the only character that gives us the truth. If we don't take what Dr. K takes seriously, then we don't have a story anymore, we just have a bunch of fucking incoherent sequences with no context to them.

Absolutely. I totally agree. I was just throwing it out there for fun.

Next up - the bad ending of SH1 means that SH1 didn't happen and nor did SH3, SH0 and possibly others. They're all just in Harry's mind as he dies in that car crash. Which makes SM the real Silent Hill canon.

[Yuki]

And SH1 has him die so this can't be the same fucking Dr. Kauffman in the first place since the original wasn't a psychological therapist.

He must be telling the truth because he's the only character that gives us the truth. If we don't take what Dr. K takes seriously, then we don't have a story anymore, we just have a bunch of fucking incoherent sequences with no context to them.

Absolutely. I totally agree. I was just throwing it out there for fun.

Next up - the bad ending of SH1 means that SH1 didn't happen and nor did SH3, SH0 and possibly others. They're all just in Harry's mind as he dies in that car crash. Which makes SM the real Silent Hill canon.

... that's an actual theory for some people. -_-;;

[SH3girl32]

I actually wondered that as well only because she LOOKED like Heather. Not sure if it was intentional or not.

[AuraTwilight]

Oh, it was intentional.

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

it is Heather....Dr. Kaufmann Survived SH1....Heather was Kidnapped sometime after the Events of SH3...Using White Claudia, Dr. K is Keeping Heather in a confused and highly sudjestive State.

the Events of SM are the product of 3 superimposed Jumbled Memories/Fantasies of Alessa, Cheryl and Heather....

My Theory is that Kaufmann and the Cult need something from Heather...something deep in her Sub-consious, hidden Buried.

they are unable to find it, so Kaufmann devises this HypnoTheropy/Regression Theropy to find what the Cult needs.....

But Heather in her vunrable state conjoures up her Adoptive Father Harry as a cry for help...

if you examine the ending of SM...Kaufmann gets fustrated "were getting nowhere" ect.... he is not Fustrated because he is oncerned for Heathers mental health....but because he feels hes getting nowhere with this plan...

the Woman who brings Heather home at the Finale is Not Dalia but a Cult member/Acting As Dalia to imerse Heather in this Delusion.

the Video tapes have Actors portraying Harry and Dalia....which explains Harrys "new Look"....Heather has confused Harry' appearance with the Actor's...

Again....all part of the cults plan to use Heather, keep her imearsed in this delusion, so they can find what they are looking for....

Just a theory, nothing to back it up....but nothing to deny it either.

[Sergiy]

It's not Heather, it's Cheryl

If Harry died in the accident, there is no Heather

This game could be as cannon as the continuation of the bad ending from SH1 which would be:

-Heather doesnt exist
-Harry died
-Cheryl survived but lives with mixed up memories of her dad (therefore Dhalia and Harry being married is just a mixed up memory, as Dhalia is her real mother, and Harry was a good stepfather)

[AuraTwilight]

Dr. Kaufmann Survived SH1.

How? We saw Lisa pull him down into what was basically eternal damnation.

Heather was Kidnapped sometime after the Events of SH3...Using White Claudia, Dr. K is Keeping Heather in a confused and highly sudjestive State.

Again, how? Harry Mason being killed as a 50-something year old while off his guard by a supernatural being is one thing, but how the hell does Kauffman expect to catch a girl with psychic powers and 30-something years of youth he doesn't have?

That, and White Claudia doesn't work that way at all, and you'd have to think about the horrendous logistics of Kauffman basically reshaping his entire life, for...what? He doesn't even agree with the Order's mission and Heather isn't pregnant with the God anymore anyway. What could he possibly want with her?

My Theory is that Kaufmann and the Cult need something from Heather...something deep in her Sub-consious, hidden Buried.

Kauffman makes it pretty clear at the end of SH1 that he wants nothing to do with the cult anymore. And...yea, the God isn't there.

the Woman who brings Heather home at the Finale is Not Dalia but a Cult member/Acting As Dalia to imerse Heather in this Delusion.

Why? What in the hell do they have to gain from tricking Heather like this? Moreover, how the hell would this even work? No drug just lets you reprogram people's minds like that, and even if it could, I doubt it would work on someone like Alessa's reincarnation.

Just a theory, nothing to back it up....but nothing to deny it either.

I can think of plenty of things to deny it. For one thing, Heather pretty much defeated the Order. Any remaining members are probably just casuals that want nothing to do with her at this point. Bear in mind they only came after her because she was pregnant with their deity, and Claudia only knew Heather was alive because of her special sight, which no one else seems to have.

-Cheryl survived but lives with mixed up memories of her dad (therefore Dhalia and Harry being married is just a mixed up memory, as Dhalia is her real mother, and Harry was a good stepfather)

How would Cheryl have any of Alessa's memories if they didn't re-merge? What about the videotapes? What about the Dahlia that comes to pick her up?

[Sergiy]

Oh right, Dhalia does come to pick her up in the end, i didnt get a clear view from my TV, in fact i had a really hard time reading the text messages from the phone...

For some reason i thought it was her illusion of Harry, but otherwise could be an ilusion of Dhalia?
Or not, cause she was obessessed with her father...

Okay im not sure how to back that up.

[ShadowBaby]

It's not Heather, it's Cheryl

If Harry died in the accident, there is no Heather

This game could be as cannon as the continuation of the bad ending from SH1 which would be:

-Heather doesnt exist
-Harry died
-Cheryl survived but lives with mixed up memories of her dad (therefore Dhalia and Harry being married is just a mixed up memory, as Dhalia is her real mother, and Harry was a good stepfather)

I like this theory.

I haven't played SM too much; is there an ending that doesn't portray Harry as a douche?

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

Quote:
Dr. Kaufmann Survived SH1.


How? We saw Lisa pull him down into what was basically eternal damnation.

Yeah, but did we see him die? come on, this is freakin' Silent Hill were talkin' about.

...We know from SH1 and SH Origins that Kaufmann was a lieing devious S.O.B. He may very well have had enough of the Order...or it may have been a front...or mabey he was/is using the Order for his own agenda.

Kaufmann is the type of Character where he is not what he seems, the previous games have shown that, why would SM be any diferent?

Quote:
Heather was Kidnapped sometime after the Events of SH3...Using White Claudia, Dr. K is Keeping Heather in a confused and highly sudjestive State.


Again, how? Harry Mason being killed as a 50-something year old while off his guard by a supernatural being is one thing, but how the hell does Kauffman expect to catch a girl with psychic powers and 30-something years of youth he doesn't have?

That, and White Claudia doesn't work that way at all, and you'd have to think about the horrendous logistics of Kauffman basically reshaping his entire life, for...what? He doesn't even agree with the Order's mission and Heather isn't pregnant with the God anymore anyway. What could he possibly want with her?

Okay, my bad, I said Kaufmann kidnapped her, what i ment to say was Kaufmann and/or the Order kidnapped her. how? well they found her before, SH 3 Anyone? the Order do have psychic/mystics of there own, not to mention erm... Monsters.

White Claudia doesnt work like that? so its not an hallusionogenic? a skilled Doctor couldnt use it as a form of pschotropic drug, with the intent of placing someone in a highly sudjestive state? em...mabey...mabey not, but I believe its possible...for example look at L.S.D.

Quote:
the Woman who brings Heather home at the Finale is Not Dalia but a Cult member/Acting As Dalia to imerse Heather in this Delusion.


Why? What in the hell do they have to gain from tricking Heather like this? Moreover, how the hell would this even work? No drug just lets you reprogram people's minds like that, and even if it could, I doubt it would work on someone like Alessa's reincarnation.

What would they have to gain by having the incubator back under there control? beats me...but if I was a religious zealot of the Order, I'd think my position within the Order may change due to my having the incubator under my control....

no Drug can reprogram the mind? I never sudjested it did. its a blend of hypnoteropy and regression theropy aided by White Claudia....the result of which doesnt reprogram Heather, but confuses the crap out of her as there are essentially 3 lives jumbled up in her head.

The Order looking for something specific to the Cheryl life, perhaps?

Quote:
Just a theory, nothing to back it up....but nothing to deny it either.


I can think of plenty of things to deny it. For one thing, Heather pretty much defeated the Order. Any remaining members are probably just casuals that want nothing to do with her at this point. Bear in mind they only came after her because she was pregnant with their deity, and Claudia only knew Heather was alive because of her special sight, which no one else seems to have.

SH Homecomming showed that the Cult was just as ative as ever. and why wouldnt they be interested in the Mother of God...even if there was no possibility of God being born, History has shown that religious types cling to hope, no matter how improbable

perhaps they are hoping/been promised a re-Birth of there God....are they being dooped? or could it be possible, the same religious debate we've seen throughout history again and again...its highly possible that this could be happening within the Order.

Since the events of SH3 They could have grown desperate, paniced, disorganised by the Death of God. so they cling to the desperate hope that God will return...8 years later and BAMN...SM.

plus, whos to say another High priest/ess has'nt taken Claudia's place, who has "sight" similar to Claudia?

[AuraTwilight]

I haven't played SM too much; is there an ending that doesn't portray Harry as a douche?

Yea, "Wicked and Weak" and "Love Lost." It's half and half.

Yeah, but did we see him die? come on, this is freakin' Silent Hill were talkin' about.

That's a terrible excuse and you know it. We heard him screaming in agony, and the entire world around him was collapsing. He's pretty fucking dead.

...We know from SH1 and SH Origins that Kaufmann was a lieing devious S.O.B. He may very well have had enough of the Order...or it may have been a front...or mabey he was/is using the Order for his own agenda.

What kind of "front" could require him basically attempting to abort God and shooting Dahlia in the stomach? He had nothing to lose, so he betrayed Dahlia and the entire Order. As he himself said, "this isn't what they agreed on." All Kauffman wanted was to make a profit off of the drug ring, and he and Dahlia were using Alessa's power to kill people who tried to stop them. He probably went along with it because he figured "More power = more drug money."

Kaufmann is the type of Character where he is not what he seems, the previous games have shown that, why would SM be any diferent?

Because we have no reason to believe the two Kauffmans, or even the two universes, are the same. Every character is different, so why would Kauffman be THE SAME?

Okay, my bad, I said Kaufmann kidnapped her, what i ment to say was Kaufmann and/or the Order kidnapped her. how? well they found her before, SH 3 Anyone? the Order do have psychic/mystics of there own, not to mention erm... Monsters.

The Order only found her because of Claudia, who had special powers. Because of Claudia's special powers, she became the new head of atleast one of the sects of the Order, demonstrating that special powers isn't very common. Infact, Alessa and Claudia are the only people we know of for sure with this sort of ability.

The Order does not control monsters. They're not a satanic cult. Plus, Heather killed God.

White Claudia doesnt work like that? so its not an hallusionogenic? a skilled Doctor couldnt use it as a form of pschotropic drug, with the intent of placing someone in a highly sudjestive state? em...mabey...mabey not, but I believe its possible...for example look at L.S.D.

White Claudia is a hallucinogenic, but hallucinogenics don't allow you to basically mind control people in the way you're suggesting. Even if they could, you would imagine that logically they'd have to keep Heather high 24/7, non-stop, and I don't think that's reasonable.

If Kauffman was capable of rewriting every moment of every day of Heather's memory, why not just wipe it all and make her a zombie hypnotized slave? "Heather, do this or that." "Yessss masterrr...."

What would they have to gain by having the incubator back under there control? beats me...but if I was a religious zealot of the Order, I'd think my position within the Order may change due to my having the incubator under my control....

Do you mean "The Mother of God?" Because Alessa/Heather is not the Incubator.

no Drug can reprogram the mind? I never sudjested it did. its a blend of hypnoteropy and regression theropy aided by White Claudia....the result of which doesnt reprogram Heather, but confuses the crap out of her as there are essentially 3 lives jumbled up in her head.

Hypnotherapy doesn't work like that, either. The thing about her having three lives is also irrelevant, as Heather seems to have mastered any identity/memory issues she may have had by the end of the game.

Not to mention, I don't believe any force in the entire world is capable of making Heather overlook the fact that she's had a loving life with her father for most of her life.

The Order looking for something specific to the Cheryl life, perhaps?

Like what? What could they possibly want from her, aside from birthing the God? And if they still want to birth the God (unlikely), why not force her down and burn the fuck out of her, then put her in a hospital room like before? That plan technically worked.

SH Homecomming showed that the Cult was just as ative as ever. and why wouldnt they be interested in the Mother of God...even if there was no possibility of God being born, History has shown that religious types cling to hope, no matter how improbable

There's various sects of the Order, and only a minority of them actually want God to be born. The Order members we see in Homecoming also aren't run of the mill cultists, but people from Shepherd's Glenn who reverted to "the old ways" because they thought God was punishing them.

That, and Homecoming's canon status is pretty debatable. I don't think it is.

Since the events of SH3 They could have grown desperate, paniced, disorganised by the Death of God. so they cling to the desperate hope that God will return...8 years later and BAMN...SM.

How would they even know about any of this?

plus, whos to say another High priest/ess has'nt taken Claudia's place, who has "sight" similar to Claudia?

You know, if a theory has to rely on the existence of a super-psychic to turn an entire behind-the-scenes plotline that we never even learn the name of, chances are, the theory is wrong.

Why go through all this crap and ruin a perfectly awesome, amazing story just to shove this into the main cult storyline? Can't you leave well enough alone? Does Shattered Memories being in it's own universe really bother you that much?

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

That's a terrible excuse and you know it. We heard him screaming in agony, and the entire world around him was collapsing. He's pretty fucking dead.

You got me there....how he survived??? you got me....but if SM IS canon, it stands to reason that he survived. Giant plothole, i know but hey, gives the guy an aura of mystery...just speculating but 25+ years in the Void....he could have learned a few things, changed his opinion ect.

What kind of "front" could require him basically attempting to abort God and shooting Dahlia in the stomach? He had nothing to lose, so he betrayed Dahlia and the entire Order. As he himself said, "this isn't what they agreed on." All Kauffman wanted was to make a profit off of the drug ring, and he and Dahlia were using Alessa's power to kill people who tried to stop them. He probably went along with it because he figured "More power = more drug money."

You may have just answered your own question there.... More Power

Because we have no reason to believe the two Kauffmans, or even the two universes, are the same. Every character is different, so why would Kauffman be THE SAME?

Good Point, but I'm going on a "what if they are the same Universe" arguement.

White Claudia is a hallucinogenic, but hallucinogenics don't allow you to basically mind control people in the way you're suggesting. Even if they could, you would imagine that logically they'd have to keep Heather high 24/7, non-stop, and I don't think that's reasonable.

If Kauffman was capable of rewriting every moment of every day of Heather's memory, why not just wipe it all and make her a zombie hypnotized slave? "Heather, do this or that." "Yessss masterrr...."

Lol..Zombie Heather...I agree, that seems to make more sense...but not if the Order is looking for something hidden within her

yeah, hallucinogenic'sd don't do that....thats why I said its a blend of Hypnotheropy, and REGRESSION theropy. I never said Kaufmann is re-writing her memories....hes looking for something, Heather is confused as a result and is mixing up her own memories

Hypnotherapy doesn't work like that, either. The thing about her having three lives is also irrelevant, as Heather seems to have mastered any identity/memory issues she may have had by the end of the game.

Again your missing REGRESSION theropy, as in Past life regression.

Do you mean "The Mother of God?" Because Alessa/Heather is not the Incubator.

My Bad, yeah, the Mother of God

Like what? What could they possibly want from her, aside from birthing the God? And if they still want to birth the God (unlikely), why not force her down and burn the fuck out of her, then put her in a hospital room like before? That plan technically worked.

Like what? I don't know...just Logical to assume that....I meen if SM is canon why focus on Cheryl? there must be something there.

All based on joining the Dots between SM and SH Canon.

Why not Burn her and Strap her to a Hospital bed? you do remember SH1...did'nt turn out well for the Order.

There's various sects of the Order, and only a minority of them actually want God to be born. The Order members we see in Homecoming also aren't run of the mill cultists, but people from Shepherd's Glenn who reverted to "the old ways" because they thought God was punishing them.

That, and Homecoming's canon status is pretty debatable. I don't think it is.

Okay good point, so again only speculating but could'nt one of these sects want Heather for some purpose?

How would they even know about any of this?

Death of Claudia, God....take your pick...

You know, if a theory has to rely on the existence of a super-psychic to turn an entire behind-the-scenes plotline that we never even learn the name of, chances are, the theory is wrong.

I wouldnt agree 100% with that. weve seen examples again and again in fiction of this...Retcon.

Why go through all this crap and ruin a perfectly awesome, amazing story just to shove this into the main cult storyline? Can't you leave well enough alone? Does Shattered Memories being in it's own universe really bother you that much?

Nope, doesnt bother me at all....does it bother you so much that I think it could possibly be?

[AuraTwilight]

You got me there....how he survived??? you got me....but if SM IS canon, it stands to reason that he survived. Giant plothole, i know but hey, gives the guy an aura of mystery...just speculating but 25+ years in the Void....he could have learned a few things, changed his opinion ect.

There's also an age discrepancy. The gap between the ages of the two Kauffmans is clearly less than 25.

You may have just answered your own question there.... More Power

But that doesn't work anymore, remember? He already learned that the whole god thing doesn't give him power, it just births a deity that's working against his plans. Kauffman isn't stupid.

Lol..Zombie Heather...I agree, that seems to make more sense...but not if the Order is looking for something hidden within her

yeah, hallucinogenic'sd don't do that....thats why I said its a blend of Hypnotheropy, and REGRESSION theropy. I never said Kaufmann is re-writing her memories....hes looking for something, Heather is confused as a result and is mixing up her own memories

Again, this whole argument is relying on the idea that Heather has an undefined "something" that the Order wants, but haven't shown interest in before. What in the holy hell could they possibly want from her? If you can't answer this question, this whole theory is nonsense.

Again your missing REGRESSION theropy, as in Past life regression.

Which is complete bullshit, lol.

Like what? I don't know...just Logical to assume that....I meen if SM is canon why focus on Cheryl? there must be something there.

All based on joining the Dots between SM and SH Canon.

Why not Burn her and Strap her to a Hospital bed? you do remember SH1...did'nt turn out well for the Order.

It didn't turn out well because of Harry Mason. He's dead.

And you're using circular logic and special pleading here. You're saying, "SM is canon because it focuses on Cheryl. Cheryl is Heather because SM could be canon. If SM is canon, why focus on Cheryl? It must mean she's Heather!"

Okay good point, so again only speculating but could'nt one of these sects want Heather for some purpose?

Like what? Fill your holes, please. It's just courtesy.

Death of Claudia, God....take your pick...

What kind of nutjob makes the conclusion of "Hey, Claudia's dead. It MUST MEAN THAT THE MOTHER OF GOD ABORTED HER BABY AND KILLED HER AND THEN RAN OFF SOMEWHERE SO WE NEED TO GO CATCH HER!"

I wouldnt agree 100% with that. weve seen examples again and again in fiction of this...Retcon.

That's not what a retcon is.

quote]Nope, doesnt bother me at all....does it bother you so much that I think it could possibly be?[/quote]

Kind've, yea. What you're basically proposing with this theory is that you're deciding to ruin three different games. "Hey, you know that story with the whole powerful, emotional story that you the player are supposed to relate to on a personal level, and twist your expectations on Silent Hill by subverting what you do know? Well, that entire story you empathized with was a LIE, the expectations were NOT subverted, and the badass, self-empowered, heroic Heather Mason who triumphed over her past and her enemies is now a stupid, broken, schizophrenic bitch barely able to stand on her feet."

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

There's also an age discrepancy. The gap between the ages of the two Kauffmans is clearly less than 25.

True, But how long was he in the Void? is time meeningless there? I can't answer that, again its just speculation.

But that doesn't work anymore, remember? He already learned that the whole god thing doesn't give him power, it just births a deity that's working against his plans. Kauffman isn't stupid

your right but Kaufmann is arogant, he knows that the birth of God does'nt benifit him one bit....but Convincing the Order that it is, Thusly having them under his Thumb....Using them for his own purpose, seems rational given his stance in SH1.

Again, this whole argument is relying on the idea that Heather has an undefined "something" that the Order wants, but haven't shown interest in before. What in the holy hell could they possibly want from her? If you can't answer this question, this whole theory is nonsense.

in the 17 years between SH1 and SH3 the Cult didnt go after/were not interested in Heather (well there was that time in Portland, lol) Untill Claudia Came along and found her....why couldnt the same be going on here?....lets use SH3 as an example,
If SH3 had yet to come out and someone had a theory as to the Plotline of SH3, Nailing it on the Head, would you say it was crazy? why did it take 17 years? an all powerful psychic named Claudia finds her with "her sight" to bring about the apocolypse...yeah right ect. ect.

Quote:
Again your missing REGRESSION theropy, as in Past life regression.


Which is complete bullshit, lol.

past life regression is bullshit? lol mabey, or mabey its sounds just as crazy as someone whose soul is split in two and who was reborn 3 times

And you're using circular logic and special pleading here. You're saying, "SM is canon because it focuses on Cheryl. Cheryl is Heather because SM could be canon. If SM is canon, why focus on Cheryl? It must mean she's Heather!"

yes, thats it exactly, everything else i've said is just guesswork to validate that theory

Like what? Fill your holes, please. It's just courtesy.

lol....dirty thoughts......yeah, I got nothing just brainstorming

What kind of nutjob makes the conclusion of "Hey, Claudia's dead. It MUST MEAN THAT THE MOTHER OF GOD ABORTED HER BABY AND KILLED HER AND THEN RAN OFF SOMEWHERE SO WE NEED TO GO CATCH HER!"

the same kinda nutjob who said, Cheryl is alive living with Harry Mason under assumed identities, Alessa was reborn again and we must prepare her for the Apocolypse...in short someone like Claudia, Dalia or any-other believer in the Order....look at it this way, 17 years after SH1 the Order Finds Heather in SH3, How likely did that senario seem before the release of SH3?....just as likely as the prospect of them tracking her down again after 8 years

That's not what a retcon is.

isnt it? a literary devise used to change established Continuity, Look at dc comics Crisis on infinate earths as a good example of this. in this context I was saying that it could be Retconned that there was an unseen Psycic pulling the Strings in the backround of SM.

Kind've, yea. What you're basically proposing with this theory is that you're deciding to ruin three different games. "Hey, you know that story with the whole powerful, emotional story that you the player are supposed to relate to on a personal level, and twist your expectations on Silent Hill by subverting what you do know? Well, that entire story you empathized with was a LIE, the expectations were NOT subverted, and the badass, self-empowered, heroic Heather Mason who triumphed over her past and her enemies is now a stupid, broken, schizophrenic bitch barely able to stand on her feet."

Not really, the original games still exist, untampered with....you can take from them what you wish...like how some people don't count Homecoming as Canon while others do...or Silent Hill Arcade, those games exist but its up to you, the Gamer to decide what you like or don't like.
Homecoming is Officially Canon, yet its full of plotholes inconsistancies, and not as well liked by the Fans ect.

SM is Officially re-imagining, yet I believe it potentially could have Cannonical value


But Im willing to bet you don't consider Homecoming to be part of the Series, if I'm correct read on, if i'm incorrect, please discount the next point.


if you can believe Homecoming is Non-Canon, why can't I Believe in the Possibility of SM Becoming part of the series proper?

[Harrys_Girl]

SH:SM Is canonical in it's own way. If you build the "canon" version of a parallel universe based on SH:SM instead of SH1, then yes. SH:SM is canonical. But if you are trying to say that as part of the existing canon, that it fits in just because "Hey, its Silent Hill and ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!", then no. It is no canon. It is about as canon as that James, Harry and Henry love triangle fanfic I read last week.

For SH:SM to be a legit part of the canon thus far, it would have to mean that Harry Mason both lived and died in the initial car crash of both games and that isn't possible, even in Silent Hill.

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

well...only if the Bad ending is Canon I guess....that way SM is the first true Sequel to SH1. the events of SH1 occuring in the Dieing mind of Harry Mason. and the events of SM occuring in the fragile mind of an Adult Cheryl.

ofcourse this discounts SH2, SH3, SH4 SH:H SH:O ect.

and most definatly, Heather could'nt be Cheryl since SH3 is non-Canon to SM.

see, thats why I hate remakes....gets so confusing...look at the Halloween Movies 3 different Canon series

1- Halloween, Halloween 2, Halloween 4, 5, 6.

2-Halloween, Halloween 2, H20, Halloween Ressurection,

3-Rob Zombies Halloween, H-2.

Dont even get me started on Halloween 3 Season of the witch

talk about a mind-fuck for a newcommer to the series.....

Silent Hill is starting to become Similar....you have the main series, then Homecoming which has more in common with the Movie than the previous games, Arcade which shits all over Silent Hill....but what is its canonical value?, the Mobile Games ect...and Now SM Which Climax first Said was Non-Canon...but now they are saying its as Canon as any other Silent Hill game

wtf....Mind Fuck for the Newcommer

[Harrys_Girl]

The mobile games are not canon, at least not in my experience playing Orphan 1 and 2.

Mobile/Orphan 1 revolves around 3 characters, Ben, Moon and Karen, the supposed younger sister of Alessa. You can read more here. Mobile/Orphan 1 is not canon because there is no evidence, official or otherwise that Alessa every had a biological sister.

Mobile/Orphan 2 is centered on the characters of Lucas, Karen's "son" and Father Vincent of SH3, of which you can read more here. This game is also non-canon because it has the idea of Vincent being outside of Silent Hill for an extended amount of time then only coming to Silent Hill after the threat of being exposed. It also suggested that he was present at or at least knew of the burning of Alessa, which probably wasn't possible since her would have been younger than Alessa when she was burned.

[AuraTwilight]

True, But how long was he in the Void? is time meeningless there? I can't answer that, again its just speculation.

Judging by SH3, no, time is not meaningless there. It runs at the same rate. Even still, the world he was in collapsed. As in it came apart. As in "Hey, Harry and/or Cybil! Go to the light or you'll die!"

your right but Kaufmann is arogant, he knows that the birth of God does'nt benifit him one bit....but Convincing the Order that it is, Thusly having them under his Thumb....Using them for his own purpose, seems rational given his stance in SH1.

Think harder about this. You're supposing that Kaufman is...judging his own identity in a gridded society in which he'd have to judge all the details of who he is while retaining his name for some reason, open up and operate a fully functional theraputic clinic, administer loads of product to Heather instead of selling it so he can gain control of her, hire multiple actors, atleast four, and use them to construct an elaborate, unnecessary scenario, and basically control every aspect of Cheryl's life to keep her from destroying the illusion, and then wrap all this together to bring together a mostly dismantled religious cult that he can extort in order to get their cooperation so he can harness the psychic powers of this girl he drugged and kill a few politicians so he can sell drugs without getting busted by the cops inbetween keeping up his therapist facade.

...Do you realize how silly this all sounds?

in the 17 years between SH1 and SH3 the Cult didnt go after/were not interested in Heather (well there was that time in Portland, lol) Untill Claudia Came along and found her....why couldnt the same be going on here?....lets use SH3 as an example,
If SH3 had yet to come out and someone had a theory as to the Plotline of SH3, Nailing it on the Head, would you say it was crazy? why did it take 17 years? an all powerful psychic named Claudia finds her with "her sight" to bring about the apocolypse...yeah right ect. ect.

Claudia, like Alessa, could do miracles, so of course they believed her. It took 17 years because even with her power, she still needed a detective. The sight only showed her the events of SH1, and only partially at that. It didn't tell her what Heather was up to right now.

the same kinda nutjob who said, Cheryl is alive living with Harry Mason under assumed identities, Alessa was reborn again and we must prepare her for the Apocolypse...in short someone like Claudia, Dalia or any-other believer in the Order....look at it this way, 17 years after SH1 the Order Finds Heather in SH3, How likely did that senario seem before the release of SH3?....just as likely as the prospect of them tracking her down again after 8 years

If "some kinda nutjob" has the ability to, I don't know, move things through the air without touching them, or something, chances are you'd listen to whatever they had to say.

isnt it? a literary devise used to change established Continuity, Look at dc comics Crisis on infinate earths as a good example of this. in this context I was saying that it could be Retconned that there was an unseen Psycic pulling the Strings in the backround of SM.

For something to be a retcon, it has to actually be a retcon. You can't use a theory to retcon the details you need for the theory to work, and you can't use a theory to justify itself.

if you can believe Homecoming is Non-Canon, why can't I Believe in the Possibility of SM Becoming part of the series proper?

Because Homecoming is full of plotholes that makes it impossible to reconcile with the main canon, just like Shattered Memories. Neither came can fit into the universe of the original four games.

[Cheryl,Heather...whatever]

Judging by SH3, no, time is not meaningless there. It runs at the same rate. Even still, the world he was in collapsed. As in it came apart. As in "Hey, Harry and/or Cybil! Go to the light or you'll die!"

Okay, yeah its pretty safe to say he died, but if SM is canon he must have survived right? I don't know how...but he's there.

Think harder about this. You're supposing that Kaufman is...judging his own identity in a gridded society in which he'd have to judge all the details of who he is while retaining his name for some reason, open up and operate a fully functional theraputic clinic, administer loads of product to Heather instead of selling it so he can gain control of her, hire multiple actors, atleast four, and use them to construct an elaborate, unnecessary scenario, and basically control every aspect of Cheryl's life to keep her from destroying the illusion, and then wrap all this together to bring together a mostly dismantled religious cult that he can extort in order to get their cooperation so he can harness the psychic powers of this girl he drugged and kill a few politicians so he can sell drugs without getting busted by the cops inbetween keeping up his therapist facade.

...Do you realize how silly this all sounds?

yup, it sounds like Kaufmann is Silent Hills Albert Wesker....and why not, lol

Claudia, like Alessa, could do miracles, so of course they believed her. It took 17 years because even with her power, she still needed a detective. The sight only showed her the events of SH1, and only partially at that. It didn't tell her what Heather was up to right now.

exactly...couldnt another High Priest/Ess of The Order develop some sort of Psychic abilities? see the events of SH3's finale ect....

If "some kinda nutjob" has the ability to, I don't know, move things through the air without touching them, or something, chances are you'd listen to whatever they had to say.

yes....why would the Order believe said Nutjob otherwise....have we learned nothing from SH3?

For something to be a retcon, it has to actually be a retcon. You can't use a theory to retcon the details you need for the theory to work, and you can't use a theory to justify itself.

Absolutly Correct, I never claimed otherwise, I just proposed...what if?

Because Homecoming is full of plotholes that makes it impossible to reconcile with the main canon, just like Shattered Memories. Neither came can fit into the universe of the original four games.

I agree, yet Homecoming IS officially Canon, and if we can discard a piece of Canon we do not like, why can't we Accept a piece of Non-Canon we do like?

you see what I'm saying? its almost hypocritical of you to tell me no, when you disregard an accepted piece of canon