John and Michelle-Beware Of Spoilers

[Joaobessie]

Sorry, i don't agree with you

Michelle was as lovey-dovey over john just as Dahlia was over Harry. Do you remember the ending where we see Harry putting the suitcases in the car? Dahlia was still nice to him and not bitchy.

I personally believe that young Dahlia and Michelle are one and the same (which is explained by both being dumped by the man they loved, and by changing just like when harry goes to the bathroom).

Cheryl imagines Harry sleeping with young Dahlia because in the beginning they still love each other. However, Harry wakes up next to an older Dahlia, a woman that he didn't love anymore.

I personally believe this is a story about a girl who never faced the separation between her parents and kept creating a world where they would still be together.

However, if Dahlia and Michelle are cheryl's avatars like you said, then Cheryl suffers from cassandra's complex (I believe it's cassandra ) and was actually in love with her father (which Is something that I believe not to be true).

Either way, I'm happy to be able to discuss this with you guys

It has been so long since we had a SH worth discussing...

I hear that the game didn't sell many copies which problably means that this was the last chapter. If this is in the fact the last entry in the series than at least it went out with a bang

By the way, I apologise for my terrible english

[AuraTwilight]

Michelle was as lovey-dovey over john just as Dahlia was over Harry. Do you remember the ending where we see Harry putting the suitcases in the car? Dahlia was still nice to him and not bitchy.

Being nice to him is not the same as "Ooooh Harry is so perfect and flawless and the ideal man" like Michelle was. Anyway, Michelle's idealization of John never changes, but Dahlia can be everything from a completely faithless critic to giving him a half of a chance. There's no correlation at all.

I personally believe that young Dahlia and Michelle are one and the same (which is explained by both being dumped by the man they loved, and by changing just like when harry goes to the bathroom).

WTF, huh? When is Young Dahlia "dumped" by anyone?

Cheryl imagines Harry sleeping with young Dahlia because in the beginning they still love each other. However, Harry wakes up next to an older Dahlia, a woman that he didn't love anymore.

That, or it's just Cheryl's own libido. Anyway, Older Dahlia still loves Harry, and the real Dahlia does not. Neither Dahlia correlates to reality in any meaningful way.

However, if Dahlia and Michelle are cheryl's avatars like you said, then Cheryl suffers from cassandra's complex (I believe it's cassandra Wink ) and was actually in love with her father (which Is something that I believe not to be true).

Electra Complex, and yes, she probably does have it, and you can't overlook it just because it makes you uncomfortable. Michelle and Lisa both say they like men who remind them of their dad, and Cheryl gets with a teacher, some older men at a brothel, etcetera and avoids getting with men her own age.

It has been so long since we had a SH worth discussing... Smile

I hear that the game didn't sell many copies which problably means that this was the last chapter. If this is in the fact the last entry in the series than at least it went out with a bang

Heh, yea, totally. I don't think it's going to be the last Silent Hill, but it's definitely my favorite.

By the way, I apologise for my terrible english

Your English is fine, don't worry.

[SHF]

----Mod edit: merged with previously existing topic-----

i just figured out that they represent steve and cheryl. though i dont know if cheryl just randomly made them up or if she knew them from school. wut r everyones thoughts

[SilentWren]

I'm afraid I don't understand who Steve is. Wasn't he a Walter victim? I don't get where you're going with this. Could you be more specific? What symbolism did you see there?

EDIT: I apologize for this post of mine being chatty in nature.

[SHF]

steve was cheryls boyfriend.

[simeonalo]

They represent Steve and Cheryl, and Harry and Dahlia. All failed relationships. When they break up in the car, etc.

Isn't there another thread about this?

Edit: Found the thread! http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=20555

[MariaRising]

I know it hasn't been that long ago since I played Shattered Memories (a month or so probably) but where do we find out about Steve?

[Hexagram]

I also don't know of this Steve or where he was mentioned in the game....

I'm pretty sure John and Michelle represented Harry and Dahlia's break up. The Harry we play in the game is actually Cheryl who is exploring the memories of her father so it makes sense that this scene is a repressed memory of how they first spilt up.

I got the feeling Michelle was a fantasy mother she created in her head, she was the mother she always wanted while Dahlia was the real mother. They were both young so they were both women she imagined before she was born.

[MariaRising]

Good idea, Hexagram, this makes sense.

[Sam Pilgrim]

Yesh, I agree with Hexagram in this.

PD. I don't remember Steve either, where do you hear about him?

[SHF]

[quote="Hexagram"]I also don't know of this Steve or where he was mentioned in the game....

I'm pretty sure John and Michelle represented Harry and Dahlia's break up. The Harry we play in the game is actually Cheryl who is exploring the memories of her father so it makes sense that this scene is a repressed memory of how they first spilt up.

in the lockeroom in midwhich b4 u hit the courtyard. it says -steve after the text.

[AuraTwilight]

Steve is the guy who tries to coax sex out of Cheryl, and is named in one or two breakup letters you find in the school.

Michelle and John probably represent Harry and Dahlia IN THE CAR SCENE, but overall, I think John represents Cheryl's ideal of Harry, and Michelle is the aspect of her who idealizes and clings to the past instead of going on with her life.

[Hexagram]

Seeing how all the characters take place in Cheryl's head, it's safe to say all of them have just a little bit of her in them. I like your take on Michelle but I think she is the same person throughout the game and the car scene really does a good job at representing Harry and Dahlia's break up.

Sitting in the back seat of the car, watching them fight, not saying anything. It's just like we've become that seven year old girl who is quiet and doesn't understand why her parents are fighting.

But anyways, Michelle just seemed so kind and perfect that it feels like she's a fantasy version of her mother. Unless she's a fantasy version of herself, hmmmm, interesting take on it.

[MariaRising]

@ helldescent: Thanks, now I remember who Steve is

@ Hexagram: Again, good theory

[SHF]

harry and dahlia broke up?

[MariaRising]

In some of the Day-Trippers voicemails, it sounds as though they're separated. And in the family-oriented ending, it appears as though there's tension between Dahlia and Harry, like they've split up and Harry's getting Cheryl for a father-daughter day maybe. And in the Wicked and Weak ending, Dahlia's fighting with Harry... She appears on the verge of leaving him in that scene. I don't think there's anything to suggest that they actually broke up, but their marriage looked strained. It also sounds as though they were married... He refers to her as his wife, maybe they were separated before he died.

[SHF]

no i mean i never knew dahlia was the harrys wife. its not mentioned in the game

[MariaRising]

I think it's mentioned in the scene where he meets the older Dahlia, she says something like "We're soulmates, you and I. In sickness and in health." Then it shows the rings. I took this to mean that.

[SHF]

that was his wife. the one holding the camcorder. we actually get to see and hear his wife in one ending. she looks and sounds nothing like dahlia(young or old)

[simeonalo]

She looks like an older version of some of the young Dahlias, and it's the same voice actress who's played all Dahlias. And the Young Dahlia and Middle Aged Dahlia in Love Lost video do sound exactly the same. And she doesn't sound like old Dahlia, well, because of the major age gap.