Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 22 Dec 2014




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Konami reflects on Shattered Memories

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3113
A excellent interview here!
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/70220 ... ories.html

Some very interesting details and subtle references to learn! Great for trivia! :P And I bet a lot of you are going to start hunting for more things after reading this! Also they explain a few things I'm certain a lot of you are dying to know about how stuff worked!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2195
Last seen at: Koholint island
Interesting interview to read. I think he may have just muddled up the "Canon vs. Non-Canon" arguments even more there, though. :razz:

_________________
Image
єเภ ןє๔єг єภﻮєl เรt รςђгєςкlเςђ


Top
   
 

Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 16 Sep 2006
Notes left: 628
Last seen at: Seattle, WA
Cool interview. Why didn't he do anything like this for Homecoming? I think all there was post-release was a small MTV one.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject:

Missing since: 05 Nov 2003
Notes left: 128
Good interview. I love his take on the whole canon issue.


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 02 Jan 2010
Notes left: 1725
Last seen at: Canadiania
I really liked that interview; the guy seemed down to earth about it all, and the development team sounded like real fans of the series.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2522
I want to bash my head into the wall; he didn't answer the "canon" question at all. He said more of "The games are almost all separate!" rather than seeming to understand that the question is, "Does this game fit in with the entire mythology of the past series or create its own?"

However, he does certainly stress that it is a completely new starting point for new fans, which in my mind says that it's a separate universe.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 28 Sep 2009
Notes left: 475
Last seen at: Behind the pipes
Trying to establish cannon in Silent Hill is like trying to drive a car up a building. Sure, you might be able to figure out a way to do it, but at the end it's still going to be more trouble than it's worth.

As for as SM is concerned, there's no reason to assume that this game has any connection to previous titles.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
Why didn't he answer the canon question? If he produced the game, then he would've known, in my opinion :P .


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2195
Last seen at: Koholint island
simeonalo wrote:
Why didn't he answer the canon question? If he produced the game, then he would've known, in my opinion :P .


Eh, it's more a case of him probably not wanting to piss off any of the fanbase.

_________________
Image
єเภ ןє๔єг єภﻮєl เรt รςђгєςкlเςђ


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2522
cascade88 wrote:
simeonalo wrote:
Why didn't he answer the canon question? If he produced the game, then he would've known, in my opinion :P .


Eh, it's more a case of him probably not wanting to piss off any of the fanbase.



Except no matter what he pisses them off. XP The SH fanbase is damn near unpleasable.

Silent One wrote:
Trying to establish cannon in Silent Hill is like trying to drive a car up a building. Sure, you might be able to figure out a way to do it, but at the end it's still going to be more trouble than it's worth.

As for as SM is concerned, there's no reason to assume that this game has any connection to previous titles.


Er... it's not too hard to establish at least some sort of canon. Silent Hill 1 most likely has the good ending in which Cybil dies, which eventually leads into Silent Hill 3; Silent Hill 2 and 4 take place between these two games, and are indirectly caused by Alessa's burning which is the catalyst for the town to call out to people. What we mean by canon is just that we want to know if it takes place in a separate universe or not, because if it doesn't, then it completely invalidates all the rest of Silent Hill. In my eyes, that's disrespectful to the games.

However, I agree that there is no reason to assume it has a connection other than homages and the like. There are too many inconsistencies.

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3113
Well leaving the question open is more intriguing for the fans as it lets them decide.

I feel what he meant is that like SH2 has no direct relation to the previous games other than the background, if some wish they can also assume that Shattered Memories takes place in the canon Silent Hill universe but has no ties to the characters or cult activities or even any events of the previous games. So like James, it's just another side story of another character who could also be named Cheryl who had a father named Harry.

This Cheryl may have visited or lived in the real Silent Hill. Whereas the game and characters we meet and play and the layout of the town itself are figments of her imagination all taking place within her mind.

If you wish to see it that way you can... if not, you don't have to.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject:

Missing since: 29 May 2009
Notes left: 223
Last seen at: Colombia
Yuki wrote:
What we mean by canon is just that we want to know if it takes place in a separate universe or not, because if it doesn't, then it completely invalidates all the rest of Silent Hill. In my eyes, that's disrespectful to the games.

I must say that you're exaggerating with this view of the game. The Legend of Zelda series deals with this kind of things all the time (for w game to happen, you must invalidate x event from y game from wich z game is bassed off), and definitively they are not being disrespectful with any other game.

I think you said it before: Climax has showd that they really care for the series, so I seriously doubt they would do this. But if they though of the BadEnding theory they're not invalidating anything, just making a side-view of the series.

Oh, and on the other hand, I must agree with Tomm. Even though you indeed can make a timeline of the "main series", by saying "this game is not canon" you don't realize that you're basically saying "this is not a Silent Hill game", a thing this game totally does not deserve.


Top
   
 

My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Feb 2004
Notes left: 410
Last seen at: :noitacoL
It feels good to know that developers appreciate the ambiguity of Silent Hill - to me, it's the heart of the series.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2522
Escapist wrote:
Yuki wrote:
What we mean by canon is just that we want to know if it takes place in a separate universe or not, because if it doesn't, then it completely invalidates all the rest of Silent Hill. In my eyes, that's disrespectful to the games.

I must say that you're exaggerating with this view of the game. The Legend of Zelda series deals with this kind of things all the time (for w game to happen, you must invalidate x event from y game from wich z game is bassed off), and definitively they are not being disrespectful with any other game.

I think you said it before: Climax has showd that they really care for the series, so I seriously doubt they would do this. But if they though of the BadEnding theory they're not invalidating anything, just making a side-view of the series.

Oh, and on the other hand, I must agree with Tomm. Even though you indeed can make a timeline of the "main series", by saying "this game is not canon" you don't realize that you're basically saying "this is not a Silent Hill game", a thing this game totally does not deserve.


I suppose I disagree with you. Legend of Zelda isn't exactly built off of a growing mythos, from what I know of it; for the most part it consists of the same elements: the Triforce, Ganon/Ganondorf, Link, Zelda, and a medieval-style country (generally Hyrule). Silent Hill, on the other hand, has grown thanks to the Order and their stories, with every new installment fleshing out the universe of it.

What I'm saying is not that a what if scenario is bad. But it needs to be an alternate reality, because there are far too many problems with trying to connect it to the original timeline, and in the previous games nothing contradicted in the timeline (that I can think of). To connect SM with the timeline to the Bad Ending would make absolutely everything we knew of Silent Hill completely a moot point, including Harry's relationship with his wife and Cheryl and where he lived. A "What if this ending happened?!?!?" would be great, but there are too many issues with Shattered Memories for it to occur; saying it's part of the main timeline therefore invalidates absolutely everything we knew about Silent Hill, and makes all the games that came before it nothing but a hallucination.

Also, I am not saying canon = in the series. For example, .hack//Legend of the Twilight: there are two versions of it, one manga and one anime. The anime version is non-canon; it is still a work of .hack, but it does not relate to .hack's main timeline. The same goes for Shattered Memories, albeit in a somewhat more abstract way in that it uses similar themes and general mindfuckery to the older games while being a separate version of events.


jdnation wrote:
Well leaving the question open is more intriguing for the fans as it lets them decide.

I feel what he meant is that like SH2 has no direct relation to the previous games other than the background, if some wish they can also assume that Shattered Memories takes place in the canon Silent Hill universe but has no ties to the characters or cult activities or even any events of the previous games. So like James, it's just another side story of another character who could also be named Cheryl who had a father named Harry.

This Cheryl may have visited or lived in the real Silent Hill. Whereas the game and characters we meet and play and the layout of the town itself are figments of her imagination all taking place within her mind.

If you wish to see it that way you can... if not, you don't have to.


I also disagree with this. It's too big of a coincidence to me that there would be people with the exact same names involved with Silent Hill, not to mention that Climax stressed how the game was taking SH1 and twisting it, so much that it seems ludicrous to say "Well it could just be a coincidence!!".

_________________
Image
Beyond the Joystick - game reviews, plot recaps, and more
http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject:

Missing since: 05 Nov 2003
Notes left: 128
simeonalo wrote:
Why didn't he answer the canon question? If he produced the game, then he would've known, in my opinion :P .


He answered the canon question pretty clearly. It probably just isn't the answer you wanted -

"Silent Hill doesn't really have a canon."

That's the answer. Personally, I don't think the answer could be better. Right from the very first game, what we saw was completely open to interpretation. Elements dropped in and certainly the bad ending opened up the possibilities. Silent Hill 2 solidified this completely. Whether through supernatural manifestation or simply mind tricks and mental trauma, separating the real from the unreal is a game that has no real end. And that game also set up the exact same possibility for SH1 too.

Born From A Wish and now, in a far bigger way, Shattered Memories took things one step further. Not only might all, some or nothing be real but what we see may not even come from the mind of the character we're playing. With that in mind, pulling apart real from created and being absolutely sure about it becomes impossible.

I know some of you love to nail everything down and set up your timelines, declaring things as fact and there's nothing wrong with that (well, maybe using the word 'fact') - that's a big part of the fun. His answer doesn't invalidate any of that. Your interpretations are all valid. As are those that don't fit with your findings.

His answer on canon really works for me.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3531
jdnation wrote:
Well leaving the question open is more intriguing for the fans as it lets them decide.

I feel what he meant is that like SH2 has no direct relation to the previous games other than the background, if some wish they can also assume that Shattered Memories takes place in the canon Silent Hill universe but has no ties to the characters or cult activities or even any events of the previous games. So like James, it's just another side story of another character who could also be named Cheryl who had a father named Harry.


Yes, but that would be extremely coincidental.
A girl named Cheryl having a father named Harry, with a wife name Dahlia meeting a nurse named Lisa (who dies from blood loss like in SH1)? That sounds more than a simple coincidence to me. And plus the town has normal people in it (unless you want to see the game as taking place when Silent Hill was still a tourist attraction, but still manifesting otherworlds)


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2195
Last seen at: Koholint island
Of course it's not a coincidence. The game makers simply said "Hey, what if this had been the case instead?" and built the game from that. d:

_________________
Image
єเภ ןє๔єг єภﻮєl เรt รςђгєςкlเςђ


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3113
simeonalo wrote:
Yes, but that would be extremely coincidental.
A girl named Cheryl having a father named Harry, with a wife name Dahlia meeting a nurse named Lisa (who dies from blood loss like in SH1)? That sounds more than a simple coincidence to me. And plus the town has normal people in it (unless you want to see the game as taking place when Silent Hill was still a tourist attraction, but still manifesting otherworlds)


Yes, it would be! Though I'd say the coincidence only goes as far as Cheryl and the doctor existing, whereas the entire events of the game take place in her mind.

It's probably questionable as to whether the Harry created in her mind really does exist, or if her father was named Harry at all. Nor might it be that her mother is named Dahlia either... In the game we play we are introduced to 'Harry' and we meet a character named 'Dahlia.' They are both representative of her real mother and father, but perhaps their names are not correct?

Let me just share my own personal view explaining this, and keep in mind I'm the sort of fan that prefers to connect the dots so everything connects.

There is in canon, another girl whose name is Cheryl of no relation to the same Cheryl/Alessa/Heather. She may live in or has visited Silent Hill. She had a father who left/died in a car accident and a mother whose roles and attitudes depend on your ending/method of playing/psychological profile.

Knowing that the town of Silent Hill can affect others outside of its boundaries (James, Heather) to the point of drawing them towards it or even to the extent of manifesting its otherworld into different areas (SH3, SH4), perhaps this is the same case here in SM. Now in SH3 and 4 there was some sort of physical link to the town of Silent Hill, whether the featus or a cultic ritual. I don't believe there is any physical link between this Cheryl and the town, but it may be more of a memory thing. In SH2, it was James memories along with his own psychological issues that drew him back there. In SM, instead of Cheryl being drawn to the town, the town is reaching out and affecting her psyche within her.

The town itself is probably distorting her own memories and creating the maze and path for her attachment to her father to escape or remain imprisoned within. I'm assuming that in reality her father isn't actually named Harry (Although I did say before that it may be possible that he is), nor is her mother named Dahlia. The town's 'memories' of historical events in SH1 are giving life and form to her mother and father within her own mind, and placing the persona of the real Harry and Dahlia and superimposed itself overtop of her real memories/thoughts/feelings of her actual mother and father. Not only them, but also Lisa and Cybil, and the town itself are distorted and superimposed to an extent over other actual characters/places from her memory.

In short I don't believe her actual father or mother are named Harry and Dahlia. The Harry and Dahlia we encounter in name the game are superimposed images overtop the memories/delusions of her father and mother as they exist in her mind. The same may go for all the other characters. The town's own 'memories', if we can call them that, reached out to another Cheryl, perhaps just because she was appropriately named, and with her under its subtle influence is also playing out its own past through her delusions and internal conflicts. It's fragmented and intertwined in imagery and reference alongside Cheryl's own mind. The town is shaping her internal delusions from it's 'personality' and past history, much like how the player's own personality and profile shape the game's physical characteristics itself when we play!

Now the only thing that is also of coincidence is that the doctor is named Kaufmann. Maybe he's also a relative of the other Kaufmann, but again it's a bunch of coincidences. Of which in total there are but two.

I may also be wrong in that there is probably something in there that explicitly states Harry and Dahlia are indeed her parent's names, but so far as I remember, this was not explicitly stated and names are only referenced while we play within her mind. Otherwise they are merely representations of her parents and people and places she knows as brought to life and animated by the real town's 'power', there is a 'double entendre' at play here in that the player has the same role as the town, the player goes into the game with the expectation of a remake of the same old story and to relive the experience albiet with whatever changes may be at play, and the player's style of playing and personality also affects the way the game's imagery is shaped. In a way the player IS like the town and is superimposing themselves onto the memories of another person to the extent that it can in a superficial manner.

It's the sort of interpretation that those who like stories in games such as Metal Gear Solid 2 can appreciate, and that's the reason I'm so in love with SHattered Memories.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11307
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I'm sorry JD, but that's horribly, unbelievably contrived to me. There's still the problem of Cheryl Heather Mason, anyway, who looks, sounds, and dresses almost exactly like Heather of SH. And why would Cheryl/the town's power alter her memories of her parent's names? There's literally no reason for her to do so and it would require the town acting in ways it never has before completely inconsistent with precedent.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 3113
AuraTwilight wrote:
I'm sorry JD, but that's horribly, unbelievably contrived to me. There's still the problem of Cheryl Heather Mason, anyway, who looks, sounds, and dresses almost exactly like Heather of SH. And why would Cheryl/the town's power alter her memories of her parent's names? There's literally no reason for her to do so and it would require the town acting in ways it never has before completely inconsistent with precedent.


Every game adds some new way for the town to behave. SH1, 2, 3 and 4 show this. So to say it's without precedent is meaningless, and for why choosing this person, is no different than say James, or Travis. People come and go through Silent Hill and if we want the series to continue onwards it's certainly going to involve more.

The town's alteration of the names are mainly for the player's perspective of the town trying to impose it's own persona overtop and re-live its past in the same way Cheryl is re-living her past through her therapy.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, this IS just my contrived way of looking at it. The names of Cheryl and Kaufmann itself are too coincidental, so it just seems too hokey. Though I didn't feel SM's Cheryl resembled the Heather in SH3 at all other than their hair colour. We see too little of her to say she's exactly like the SH3 Heather. Even the Harry in the game has no strict resemblance to the CG renders in SH1. Heck there's really not much character of Harry in SH1 to really compare anyway... I do concede that the likely fact that there are too many coincidences makes my theory about it too unattaractive simply because explaining away such things as coincidences is lame, and I too feel this way.

Which brings us back to the point that Climax's answer about the 'canon' issue is really just that they'd rather just leave it open to fans to form their own opinions about the games relationships however they like. Fans will exploit any openings to try and connect the dots.


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: