Konami reflects on Shattered Memories

[Yuki]

Well, yes, they will, but there are too many contradictions for it to really fit in without discounting the entirety of the series. It seems to me like Climax's canon answer is them backpedaling from the original "No, it's a separate universe" because they realized fans would be pissed. Either way they would be annoyed, but Climax seemed to backpedal.

[AuraTwilight]

Every game adds some new way for the town to behave. SH1, 2, 3 and 4 show this.

SH1 and SH2, yea, but not so much 3 and 4.

The town's alteration of the names are mainly for the player's perspective of the town trying to impose it's own persona overtop and re-live its past in the same way Cheryl is re-living her past through her therapy.

But why?

Though I didn't feel SM's Cheryl resembled the Heather in SH3 at all other than their hair colour.

She has the same face and body structure, same voice actress, same full name, etc. as Cheryl/Alessa/Heather.

[jdnation]

SH1 and SH2, yea, but not so much 3 and 4.

3 and 4 showed how the effects that so far had only been contained within Silent Hill could spread out to other areas. 4 broadened the scope of that by showing how the effects could be contained in one area while still being a separate layer of reality.

But why?

That is the question, and is also applicable to James as well. In both instances the town reached out to the troubled mind of someone who wished to live in denial. James was pulled towards Silent Hill from the outside even going so far as to believe he actually received a letter, whereas in Shattered Memories, it was entirely internal.

I don't know specifically why this indivudual or that, and we could sit down and come up with many reasons. This is a new way for the 'town' to behave, the simplest answer for all the games is obviously that Climax and Konami are expanding the town's power and the cultic abilities etc. etc. to create new games and experiences. Of course despite what we expeirence in Shattered Memories, in the end it is really the most minimal display of power that the town could supposedly have done. It's effects are not as grand as before. It was all internal, and perhaps we can even call it dream-like. The experience we played definately seemed large and complex, but if we step back we realize that none of it was actually happening, it's more applicable to a bad dream or visions. At the very most we might stretch it to say that much like how the town could create a 'Maria', instead it's given a life and a form to a memory living within a person's psyche. When you think about it, it nowhere requires as much a leap or suspension of belief than what we discover from Silent Hill 2.

Though I didn't feel SM's Cheryl resembled the Heather in SH3 at all other than their hair colour.

She has the same face and body structure, same voice actress, same full name, etc. as Cheryl/Alessa/Heather.[/quote]

Hmmm, then yeah, you've got me thre and I'm really just thinking too hard...

But if I wanted to try and make it fit, this could simply be explained as that the reasoning behind this from teh development perspective is because this Cheryl is supposed to be a lot like the Alessa/Heather we know. And it IS a coincidence (And not one that is THAT far fetched realistically, it just feels contrived from a story-telling point of view). The idea that this is simply a girl very much similar to Heather with the name Cheryl could also go a long way to providing you with a 'why' rationale. The power that consumes the town is itself subconsciously seeking a new host like the original. It reached out and in a small way wanted to relive and recreate it's experiences, but only managed to do so within the subconscious mind of this Cheryl, whose similarities alone made her an appropriate choice. From there we could explore ideas that the town too wants to somehow 'break free' if you will and explore all the other possibilities and themes surrounding this idea.

Anyway this again goes to show that canon will largely be in the minds of the fans, with those that form one opinion of where this game sits against those of another.

[AuraTwilight]

3 and 4 showed how the effects that so far had only been contained within Silent Hill could spread out to other areas. 4 broadened the scope of that by showing how the effects could be contained in one area while still being a separate layer of reality.

Neither of those really have to do with Silent Hill, though. The former is a result of Alessa's borking of things, and the latter involved a plane that wasn't even the Otherworld.

That is the question, and is also applicable to James as well. In both instances the town reached out to the troubled mind of someone who wished to live in denial. James was pulled towards Silent Hill from the outside even going so far as to believe he actually received a letter, whereas in Shattered Memories, it was entirely internal.

Sorry, no, that's not good enough. It's just a cop out to avoid answering the plot hole I'm observing.

The power that consumes the town is itself subconsciously seeking a new host like the original.

The power of the town neither consumes nor has a subconscious. It's not an acting entity, it's a passive force that's utilized by humans with heavy hearts. If your theory requires this power to work on "Cheryl" to impress Alessa's memories on her for it's own sake, then it's flawed.

From there we could explore ideas that the town too wants to somehow 'break free' if you will and explore all the other possibilities and themes surrounding this idea.

That's totally silly.

[Yuki]

Er, The Book of Lost Memories states that Silent Hill itself calls out to people with darkness in their hearts. I don't exactly count it as a conscious, evil entity, but it calls out to them.

The way I see it, Silent Hill is actually a supernatural force for good, albeit in a twisted way. The people who survive it process their experiences and whatever darkness is in their hearts, and for the most part they survive it and move on with life better than before. It seems to me that SH is trying to help people rather than really hurt them.


I have a question, Aura: what is the force acting in 4 if not the Otherworld?

[jdnation]

Neither of those really have to do with Silent Hill, though. The former is a result of Alessa's borking of things, and the latter involved a plane that wasn't even the Otherworld.

Yes they do, they expanded upon the power/abilities etc. It shows that whatever posesses Silent Hill can also reach outside its borders. In 3 and 4's case there's a clear reason with larger effects. As for Shattered Memories, I'd feel that a girl with similarities to Heather, posessing the name Cheryl, and who may have visited Silent Hill, can be a suitable explanation for the town's interest in her.

Sorry, no, that's not good enough. It's just a cop out to avoid answering the plot hole I'm observing.

I don't know what the issue is you're having here. Yuki's post also shows that the town itself is indeed trying to reach out to others outside itself.

The power of the town neither consumes nor has a subconscious. It's not an acting entity, it's a passive force that's utilized by humans with heavy hearts. If your theory requires this power to work on "Cheryl" to impress Alessa's memories on her for it's own sake, then it's flawed.

On what grounds would you say that is definitive about the town? I myself wouldn't say it's highly conscious of what it is doing, or that it has some sort of master plan either. Just that it is acting instinctively... like an animal if you will... It acts and does in all directions at once like something lashing out at passerbys from within its cage. Whatever comes within reach, is what it reaches for and tries to leave a mark.

And I'm not suggesting that the town has some sort of personality either. What I refer to as 'the town' I refer to as the power that shrounds it, possess the area, perhaps you may think of it as a spirit or something like an invisible virus that creates symptoms in whoever gets near to it, those with some deep psychological issue are probably most susceptible to it, if that helps give you a clearer understanding of what I'm talking about.

[Yuki]

I don't know what the issue is you're having here. Yuki's post also shows that the town itself is indeed trying to reach out to others outside itself.

Er, don't get me wrong; I completely disagree with the idea that it's not Cheryl, especially as we've got nothing to contradict the fact that her father's name is Harry Mason, but I just wanted to clarify that the town does indeed call out.

Plus, with any precedent set in the other Silent Hills (which, honestly, should be disregarded because Shattered Memories is set in an alternate universe; I myself am guilty of thinking it in supernatural terms because of the old games), it makes no sense for the town to call out to another girl named Cheryl to confront her psychological problems... yet manifest them as other people. The other games in the series make everything personal; there's no reason for the town to be like "I know you have problems, and we're working through them, but HERE'S SOME DUDE NAMED HARRY!".

[AuraTwilight]

I have a question, Aura: what is the force acting in 4 if not the Otherworld?

It's explicitly stated to be a Kingdom Walter created, and not the Otherworld ("The world of our Lord"), confirmed by extra supplemental material. I personally speculate that since Walter appears to have powers akin to Alessa's, he basically repeated what she did, but it seems to be smaller and more unstable since it wasn't built "on top of" an existing spiritual power.

Yes they do, they expanded upon the power/abilities etc. It shows that whatever posesses Silent Hill can also reach outside its borders. In 3 and 4's case there's a clear reason with larger effects. As for Shattered Memories, I'd feel that a girl with similarities to Heather, posessing the name Cheryl, and who may have visited Silent Hill, can be a suitable explanation for the town's interest in her.

As I already explained, the phenomena you're describing have nothing to do with the actual power of Silent Hill, and regardless, the town has no consciousness, will, agenda, or "interests." It's a big ass psychic canvas that people paint on, it doesn't do anything on it's own except act on people's wishes.

I don't know what the issue is you're having here. Yuki's post also shows that the town itself is indeed trying to reach out to others outside itself.

My problem is that it's a complete asspull and you're using one baseless speculation as a basis for other baseless speculations, which is bad form.

The town attracts people with darkness in their hearts, but this doesn't mean it has a will, agenda, or proactive force. It doesn't force or coerce them into coming to it, I see it as being a sort of telepathic magnet. Ultimately, everyone who goes to Silent Hill goes there of their own free will, and everything manifested is because of their own personal desires, and not because of some plan of the town's.

The same is true even with the phenomena in 3 and 4, so you can't appeal to this. the town has never, EVER, acted in a way as to impress it's own desires and agenda on someone who didn't actively desire it in some way, as would have to be the case to justify this theory of yours. It can't happen.

On what grounds would you say that is definitive about the town? I myself wouldn't say it's highly conscious of what it is doing, or that it has some sort of master plan either. Just that it is acting instinctively... like an animal if you will... It acts and does in all directions at once like something lashing out at passerbys from within its cage. Whatever comes within reach, is what it reaches for and tries to leave a mark.

Supplemental material and the evidence given in the games, mostly of SH2. The town isn't punishing James, for instance, James is punishing himself.

Hell, personally, I'm not even 100% confident in the idea that the town even does summon people; the only person who makes this claim is Eddie, who has a habit of passing the blame for his own actions onto everyone and everything BUT himself.

And I'm not suggesting that the town has some sort of personality either. What I refer to as 'the town' I refer to as the power that shrounds it, possess the area, perhaps you may think of it as a spirit or something like an invisible virus that creates symptoms in whoever gets near to it, those with some deep psychological issue are probably most susceptible to it, if that helps give you a clearer understanding of what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter. There is no sentient force behind the power of Silent Hill. There MAY be a real God (though unlikely), but unless it's born, it can't do anything anyway. The power of the town was a neutral spiritual force, and everything from SH1 is the fault of Alessa Gillespie. The only entity that can call itself the "mind" or "interest" or "will" of the town is her.

[Yuki]

Okay, I see now. I haven't quite finished 4, which is why that confused me.




However, why are you unsure that the town can summon people? It's stated that it calls out to people; is that not what that means?

[AuraTwilight]

However, why are you unsure that the town can summon people? It's stated that it calls out to people; is that not what that means?

It's stated in official material, yes, but our source for this information is Eddie, the guy who blames everyone but himself for his actions, and acts irrationally and misjudges the intentions of others. How the fuck did he become an expert on Silent Hill's powers all of a sudden? How do we know, for example, that he's not projecting onto the town, and anthropomorphizing it as a malevolent antagonist or something?

I mean, let's think about this. Using Angela as evidence, it's clear that the town doesn't call people who are justly and legitimately "sinful", or "guilty", but calls people who believe they are, or people who believe they have darkness. In Laura's case, it seems to judge "darkness" as simply the Jungian Shadow, a part that is subjectively held to be negative by the person. Laura, for example, denies that she's lonely and such, and is running away from her aching heart by looking for Mary. This is her darkness.

Walter and Eddie seem to have run to Silent Hill entirely on their own volition, and Angela and James are both motivated to go there by their own subconscious memories, and the "call" wouldn't work if they didn't have a self-given reason to go. So, what, did the town mindcontrol the two of them, or something? Where do their own personal delusions set in, and where does the town's influence begin?

And why doesn't it "call" Heather, who is arguably more worthy of such a "call" than anyone else, ever?

Personally, I think Eddie may have been wrong. The town doesn't display any signs of being proactive, or attracting people to it in any perceivable or measurable way. It just sits there and let's people manifest their own wishes. It's like the movie "Sphere."

[jdnation]

As I already explained, the phenomena you're describing have nothing to do with the actual power of Silent Hill, and regardless, the town has no consciousness, will, agenda, or "interests." It's a big ass psychic canvas that people paint on, it doesn't do anything on it's own except act on people's wishes.

The town attracts people with darkness in their hearts, but this doesn't mean it has a will, agenda, or proactive force. It doesn't force or coerce them into coming to it, I see it as being a sort of telepathic magnet. Ultimately, everyone who goes to Silent Hill goes there of their own free will, and everything manifested is because of their own personal desires, and not because of some plan of the town's.

It doesn't matter. There is no sentient force behind the power of Silent Hill. There MAY be a real God (though unlikely), but unless it's born, it can't do anything anyway. The power of the town was a neutral spiritual force, and everything from SH1 is the fault of Alessa Gillespie. The only entity that can call itself the "mind" or "interest" or "will" of the town is her.

I already explained how I believe the town behaves earlier which is similar to what you're saying. Not that it has some 'conscious human-like intelligence' of its own but rather whatever exists there now is more the sort that is instinctual or the sort that works in a mechanical cellular like manner. This perfectly accords with the possibilities I suggest happened in Shattered Memories.

My problem is that it's a complete asspull and you're using one baseless speculation as a basis for other baseless speculations, which is bad form.

The same is true even with the phenomena in 3 and 4, so you can't appeal to this. the town has never, EVER, acted in a way as to impress it's own desires and agenda on someone who didn't actively desire it in some way, as would have to be the case to justify this theory of yours. It can't happen.

How is it bad form? This is a NEW game, like every new installment that introduces entirely new elements that never existed prior. Are you saying Climax or Konami or Team Silent NEVER introduce entirely new concepts to the Silent Hill games or that they do not have the freedom to do so if only to create new experiences and stories related to Silent Hill? It's perfectly okay to speculate about the game starting with assumptions when that's all we have to go on. What's wrong with that? Newer games set precedents to introduce new elements. Just because the town hasn't acted a certain way before is not an argument against trying to find an explanation for new behaviors introduced in new games unless that explanation is a total contradiction to something earlier. What I'm suggesting is not something that contradicts anything earlier but a sort of 'evolutionary' behavior for the town that does not nullify anything that has come before. I'm not forcing you to accept what I'm saying as the correct interpretation. If you feel differently, then by all means...

Supplemental material and the evidence given in the games, mostly of SH2. The town isn't punishing James, for instance, James is punishing himself.

Hell, personally, I'm not even 100% confident in the idea that the town even does summon people; the only person who makes this claim is Eddie, who has a habit of passing the blame for his own actions onto everyone and everything BUT himself.

What James experiences for himself is not necessarily a pattern that applies to everyone else. You may not be certain about that idea, but there's no reason that necessitates disbelieving Eddie. There is no clear contradiction present, so it's very much still open to interpretation. There's nothing wrong if you wish to see otherwise.

[Yuki]

However, why are you unsure that the town can summon people? It's stated that it calls out to people; is that not what that means?

It's stated in official material, yes, but our source for this information is Eddie, the guy who blames everyone but himself for his actions, and acts irrationally and misjudges the intentions of others. How the fuck did he become an expert on Silent Hill's powers all of a sudden? How do we know, for example, that he's not projecting onto the town, and anthropomorphizing it as a malevolent antagonist or something?

Er, but if it's stated in official material which does not have a point of view, why would we discount it? I think that it's partially caused by subconcious memories and partially by Silent Hill itself. Silent Hill gently influences people who have memories they are trying to repress to come to the town.

How is it bad form? This is a NEW game, like every new installment that introduces entirely new elements that never existed prior. Are you saying Climax or Konami or Team Silent NEVER introduce entirely new concepts to the Silent Hill games or that they do not have the freedom to do so if only to create new experiences and stories related to Silent Hill? It's perfectly okay to speculate about the game starting with assumptions when that's all we have to go on. What's wrong with that? Newer games set precedents to introduce new elements. Just because the town hasn't acted a certain way before is not an argument against trying to find an explanation for new behaviors introduced in new games unless that explanation is a total contradiction to something earlier. What I'm suggesting is not something that contradicts anything earlier but a sort of 'evolutionary' behavior for the town that does not nullify anything that has come before. I'm not forcing you to accept what I'm saying as the correct interpretation. If you feel differently, then by all means...

Except there's absolutely no evidence to support that Cheryl isn't actually Cheryl.

[AuraTwilight]

I already explained how I believe the town behaves earlier which is similar to what you're saying. Not that it has some 'conscious human-like intelligence' of its own but rather whatever exists there now is more the sort that is instinctual or the sort that works in a mechanical cellular like manner. This perfectly accords with the possibilities I suggest happened in Shattered Memories.

I know, and I explained that it doesn't have an "agenda" or "desire", at all. Even instinctual, animal-like forces have proactive actions. Silent Hill doesn't seem to have any. You've created a hypothetical caterpillar and you're comparing it to a peapod because they're both elongated and green.

How is it bad form? This is a NEW game, like every new installment that introduces entirely new elements that never existed prior. Are you saying Climax or Konami or Team Silent NEVER introduce entirely new concepts to the Silent Hill games or that they do not have the freedom to do so if only to create new experiences and stories related to Silent Hill? It's perfectly okay to speculate about the game starting with assumptions when that's all we have to go on. What's wrong with that? Newer games set precedents to introduce new elements. Just because the town hasn't acted a certain way before is not an argument against trying to find an explanation for new behaviors introduced in new games unless that explanation is a total contradiction to something earlier. What I'm suggesting is not something that contradicts anything earlier but a sort of 'evolutionary' behavior for the town that does not nullify anything that has come before. I'm not forcing you to accept what I'm saying as the correct interpretation. If you feel differently, then by all means...

Okay, slow the fuck down, you're going into a tirade based on a misinterpretation. I said "it's bad form", because it's intellectually and logically fallacious to base speculation off of other baseless speculation. It's not just a Silent Hill thing, it's something you shouldn't do at all. You're suggesting something as equally baseless as "Einstein was an alien, therefore music was invented by Martians."

Not only is "Einstein was an alien" unfounded, but even if it was true the second part of that sentence wouldn't hold ground.

Also, I'm not saying the creators don't introduce new elements. The thing is, when they do, they drop hints, allusions, and evidence for their existence. They're not going to create Silent Hill 6 where a girl commits suicide, and then say "By the way, she was never real, she was actually the ghost of a dog that took the form of her human master, depressed because she failed to save her owner," without dropping an in-game note, or memo, or cutscene, or SOMETHING like that. It's entirely wrong to make that sort of theory based off of "a girl killed herself and she had a dog."

What James experiences for himself is not necessarily a pattern that applies to everyone else. You may not be certain about that idea, but there's no reason that necessitates disbelieving Eddie. There is no clear contradiction present, so it's very much still open to interpretation. There's nothing wrong if you wish to see otherwise.

It's a pattern followed by Travis, James, Eddie, Angela, Walter, and Ernest Baldwin. It's not like I'm assuming it's something that happens to everyone based on just James.

I have reason to disbelieve Eddie because every other damn word that comes out of his word is a lie to protect his own ass and pass the blame to someone else. Why SHOULD I believe him?

Er, but if it's stated in official material which does not have a point of view, why would we discount it? I think that it's partially caused by subconcious memories and partially by Silent Hill itself. Silent Hill gently influences people who have memories they are trying to repress to come to the town.

I have issues with Lost Memories aside, but putting that aside, Lost Memories is vague enough on the town's powers so as to never claim absolute. The page in Lost Memories specifically has a screenshot of Eddie making his infamous comment, meaning that this property of the town is based pretty much entirely on him.

This is a moot issue that's only about my personal preference, anyway. Even if the town has this power, it doesn't mean the town is proactive, instinctual, or sentient. Magnets attract metal, but we don't theorize that the magnet is secretly "aware."

[Szyxis]

This whole canon thing is completely out of hand. Even when he answers that question everyone is on the edge of their seats about, it's like he never answered it! Most people just kinda ignore it and keep asking the same question over and over.

Personally I've never understood how a series of games with multiple endings in every chapter could possibly have a concrete storyline and canon. It has a mythos, it has central characters and themes, but the whole point is that you're never quite sure what's happening. It's always been that way, and if/when it isn't that way everyone complains because the story is "too plain" or "too obvious".

I've even seen multiple people state both sides of that argument on the same subject! "it doesn't line up" "can't be the same universe" etc. and then saying "the story was too direct and obvious" or "it's missing that mysterious feeling" IT CAN'T BE BOTH WAYS! GAWD!

The series is called SILENT HILL in reference to the town, the surrounding area, and all the weird, random, messed up and downright strange things that happen (or don't happen) there.

Point being, this game is meant to incite that feeling of "wait...did that really happen how I think?" It's like a plot twist in a psychological thriller movie where the entire mood of the events within is now being questioned, except it's not just a scene, it's a whole chapter.

Personally, I'm just glad they're attempting to retain that mystery and ambiguity this series has always been known for instead of catering to the "timeline police" and making a dry, easy to follow plot.

[Yuki]

This whole canon thing is completely out of hand. Even when he answers that question everyone is on the edge of their seats about, it's like he never answered it! Most people just kinda ignore it and keep asking the same question over and over.

Personally I've never understood how a series of games with multiple endings in every chapter could possibly have a concrete storyline and canon. It has a mythos, it has central characters and themes, but the whole point is that you're never quite sure what's happening. It's always been that way, and if/when it isn't that way everyone complains because the story is "too plain" or "too obvious".

I've even seen multiple people state both sides of that argument on the same subject! "it doesn't line up" "can't be the same universe" etc. and then saying "the story was too direct and obvious" or "it's missing that mysterious feeling" IT CAN'T BE BOTH WAYS! GAWD!

The series is called SILENT HILL in reference to the town, the surrounding area, and all the weird, random, messed up and downright strange things that happen (or don't happen) there.

Point being, this game is meant to incite that feeling of "wait...did that really happen how I think?" It's like a plot twist in a psychological thriller movie where the entire mood of the events within is now being questioned, except it's not just a scene, it's a whole chapter.

Personally, I'm just glad they're attempting to retain that mystery and ambiguity this series has always been known for instead of catering to the "timeline police" and making a dry, easy to follow plot.

Except it DOES indeed have a timeline. Not only does the Book of Lost Memories illustrate part of it, but we have stuff that has happened. Silent Hill, in the majority of endings, leads over to Silent Hill 3. The bad ending in SH1 could be considered an alternate series of events. Silent Hill 2 and 4 take place in between, I believe, as we can see with Walter's mention in 2 and 4's mention of the Order.

Silent Hill does have a concrete timeline. It has branching ideas as well, if you wish to think of the endings that way, but saying "IT'S NEVER HAD A CONCRETE TIMELINE" is, in my opinion, damn near ignorant. All we want to have confirmed is if Shattered Memories takes place in the same timeline as the old games, or in a completely new/separate one. We never asked for it to be dry or easy-to-follow, simply to know if we can rule out "OMG IT *MUST* BE PART OF ALESSA'S STORY!".

[Szyxis]

I dunno man, just seems like picking it all apart to find meanings and symbolism is one thing but doesn't it defeat the purpose of being ambiguous if you MUST have everything fit together JUST SO? I just kinda look at the whole thing like "this could be real, or that...who knows?" that's why it's interesting!

I'd also like to point out that people arguing about something being "non-canon" or in a separate "universe" in a series that revolves around said alternate universes and such is benign...silly that it's causing such a stir.

[Yuki]

I dunno man, just seems like picking it all apart to find meanings and symbolism is one thing but doesn't it defeat the purpose of being ambiguous if you MUST have everything fit together JUST SO? I just kinda look at the whole thing like "this could be real, or that...who knows?" that's why it's interesting!

I'd also like to point out that people arguing about something being "non-canon" or in a separate "universe" in a series that revolves around said alternate universes and such is benign...silly that it's causing such a stir.

We don't necessarily want it to fit in exactly, I should think. We want to be able to roughly place everything in a timeline so we can know how we can interpret the symbolism and such with more understanding.

I agree that it's a little weird to make such a stir, especially when the game is clearly a different universe. All the other games, though (barring their bad endings and UFO endings), take place in one single timeline. They can all fit together; I think that's part of what is causing the fervor over Shattered Memories.

[Szyxis]

I'm sorry but SH2 is not the continuation of SH1, it is not a continuous storyline. They all take place in the same place, some in the same timeframe even, but there still isn't any concrete evidence that Harry/Heather and James/Mary/etc. even exist in the same "universe". These could be parallel universes or different planes of existence too for all we know. Nobody has ever said SM was factually in an alternate universe, they always seem to kinda say "you never know...*spooky sounds*" why is it so impossible to accept it as that? I think having a story with two possible beginnings but you can't tell which one is real and which one is a lie/hallucination/dream/whatever is pretty damn neat. I think it still belongs in the storyline, think of it as a flashback or a dream sequence...except that you really never know if SH1 or SHSM is the real one.

[AuraTwilight]

I'm sorry but SH2 is not the continuation of SH1, it is not a continuous storyline. They all take place in the same place, some in the same timeframe even, but there still isn't any concrete evidence that Harry/Heather and James/Mary/etc. even exist in the same "universe".

This is patently false, as all three of the first games acknowledge each other and form a timeline that makes it impossible to take any of them out and still have the others.

Nobody has ever said SM was factually in an alternate universe

Wrong again; the creators said it was an alternate universe, but withdrew the comment due to fandom complaints and general butthurt.

[Szyxis]

Okay where in SH2 does it reference Harry? If it does I'm forgetting something. And yes, I know they originally said that but who's to say that was what everyone wanted it to be...maybe at that time they wanted alt universe and then decided it would be more fun to have it ambiguous. These are human beings we're dealing with here...they change their minds, they make mistakes...this stuff doesn't just materialize out of thin air, and I think it's kinda lame to rag on the devs despite all their hard work and not really recognize them for it.