What The Heck Were They Doing Out There???

[Dogg Thang]

Didn't I see a crashed plane too? Do you think if a plane had crashed in Silent Hill, Cybil would have been wasting her time with Harry? At the very least train and plane crashes would have come up in conversation.

But we see things warp and break when it goes into nightmare sequences. Cars are suspended in blocks of ice. They simply can't exist in the same reality as normal Silent Hill. If indeed there is any reality here.

[AuraTwilight]

I'm sorry, no way. The trains are spilling over from ON TOP OF the building and pushed through entire middles of the hospital without breaking the walls around the effected rooms. It's like the trains fell from the fucking sky.

The train and crashes do not exist in reality. They cannot unless you wish to propose that Climax is composed if idiots who failed to so much as pass third grade physics.

[Droo]

I'm sorry, no way. The trains are spilling over from ON TOP OF the building and pushed through entire middles of the hospital without breaking the walls around the effected rooms. It's like the trains fell from the fucking sky.

The train and crashes do not exist in reality. They cannot unless you wish to propose that Climax is composed if idiots who failed to so much as pass third grade physics.

If Team Silent can throw physics out the window with In Water, then Climax can do the same.

Jesting aside:

As for the plane, that appears in IceWorld, so I don't view it as real. Since the train crash also only appears in IceWorld, so far as I recall, I'm prepared to discount it as well.

[Dogg Thang]

So there's Harry's crash - real or unreal? A massive train crash - unreal. A plane crash - unreal. A destroyed SUV under water - real or unreal?

With all of these crashes going on, and given the one big one we learn is real (or was at one time) at the end, wouldn't it be just a little too much of a coincidence that Lisa crashes a car/ambulance into the hospital on the same night?

And then walks home without bothering to mention it to anyone?

Ruling out Lisa's crash as being real would seem to me to be the next natural step in that crash sequence.

[AuraTwilight]

If Team Silent can throw physics out the window with In Water, then Climax can do the same.

Jesting aside:

As for the plane, that appears in IceWorld, so I don't view it as real. Since the train crash also only appears in IceWorld, so far as I recall, I'm prepared to discount it as well.

Someone commented (might've been you) that Lisa was called to work because of the LOL TRAINS, I'm just saying that this would never be the case in the real world. If course physics are different in the Nightmare world, though.

So there's Harry's crash - real or unreal? A massive train crash - unreal. A plane crash - unreal. A destroyed SUV under water - real or unreal?

Harry's crash is probably unreal, considering that the alternative is that construct!Harry totally carjacked someone. Ditto for the destroyed SUV. According to Cybil, he swam.

[Yuki]

It's possible that the car and the SUV were constructs as well as Harry, and disappeared once their purposes were served. (However, I have no evidence; this was just a random musing.)

[NeoAquarius12]

I wonder how much was actually taken into consideration when the game was being planned. Whether or not the team thought that they would make the SUV disappear as a construct of the plot, or whether they wanted to have a great underwater scene. Either way, it's neat that we still get a lot to think about. The trains... were kind of weird. They're in the hospital. Maybe an unexplained connection to Cheryl's past, a related injury?

[Harrys_Girl]

Does anyone have an explanation that doesn't assume Cybil et al don't actually exist? Because I already rejected that theory ages ago.

I may be repeating what someone else already said, but it seemed so obvious to me yet I haven't seen (so far) anyone else mention it. Cybil is real. Cybil Bennett was the cop on scene that found Harry's car after he crashed into the pole due to a serve snow storm. This explains her role in Cheryl's fantasy world. She found the car, she called it in and stayed on scene to wait for the ambulance that would be taking little Cheryl to the hospital and New!Harry to the morgue.

Lisa also is real, in the fact that she was the nurse that took care of Cheryl's wounds, the wounds she sustained in the crash. I don't think Cheryl had any serious (physical) wounds from the crash as she was sleeping in the back of the car when impact was made between car and pole.

Michelle also was real, she was someone Cheryl befriended somewhat in high school.

But everything past the crash, is fantasy. Completely and totally removed from reality in any and every possible way. The Cybil during the events of SH:SM, the character herself, is most likely Dr. K's work. The fact that she is the one to "pull the file" and reveal that New!Harry was killed in the crash 18 yr.s ago was not coincidental. Dr. K most likely, while Cheryl is explaining the events, is playing the role of Cybil and reading the report done on the the crash 18 yr.s ago. He also plays Lisa in the fantasy of SH:SM. He probably reads the injuries (busted cranium and hemoraging from the head) from RN Garland's notes, the unfortunate night shift e.r. nurse that had to take a look at both New!Harry and Cheryl's wounds once the ambulance brought them there. Cheryl refuses to believe it and thus transfers them over to Lisa herself, killing her off instead of New!Harry.

[Yuki]

Does anyone have an explanation that doesn't assume Cybil et al don't actually exist? Because I already rejected that theory ages ago.

I may be repeating what someone else already said, but it seemed so obvious to me yet I haven't seen (so far) anyone else mention it. Cybil is real. Cybil Bennett was the cop on scene that found Harry's car after he crashed into the pole due to a serve snow storm. This explains her role in Cheryl's fantasy world. She found the car, she called it in and stayed on scene to wait for the ambulance that would be taking little Cheryl to the hospital and New!Harry to the morgue.

Lisa also is real, in the fact that she was the nurse that took care of Cheryl's wounds, the wounds she sustained in the crash. I don't think Cheryl had any serious (physical) wounds from the crash as she was sleeping in the back of the car when impact was made between car and pole.

Michelle also was real, she was someone Cheryl befriended somewhat in high school.

But everything past the crash, is fantasy. Completely and totally removed from reality in any and every possible way. The Cybil during the events of SH:SM, the character herself, is most likely Dr. K's work. The fact that she is the one to "pull the file" and reveal that New!Harry was killed in the crash 18 yr.s ago was not coincidental. Dr. K most likely, while Cheryl is explaining the events, is playing the role of Cybil and reading the report done on the the crash 18 yr.s ago. He also plays Lisa in the fantasy of SH:SM. He probably reads the injuries (busted cranium and hemoraging from the head) from RN Garland's notes, the unfortunate night shift e.r. nurse that had to take a look at both New!Harry and Cheryl's wounds once the ambulance brought them there. Cheryl refuses to believe it and thus transfers them over to Lisa herself, killing her off instead of New!Harry.

Er, I believe Droo was referring to the Lisa/Cybil/Michelle we see, not their inspirations.

Also, while it is completely possible, we have no evidence to support that Cheryl met a police officer named Cybil during her lifetime. It's possible that she did during the Problem Child incidents, but there is no evidence to prove either way.

[NeoAquarius12]

That;s true Yuki. I suppose all we can offer is probable speculation. Since we only know so many items that are facts in this game (Cheryl, Dr. K, and Harry all exist (at least at one time Harry did, and most likely Dahlia too, lol)... We just have to interpret the remainder of what we can based on our own psychological values. We're entering Cheryl's mind to solve what is essentially unsolvable....
...until the company tells us it is so.

[Droo]

Assuming Cheryl knew Cybil and Lisa is possible but there is no evidence for it. It's pure conjecture. The only one who claims to know Cheryl is Michelle.

Now, if Michelle really went to high school with Cheryl, this eliminates Sirens&Sleaze. Harry died while Cheryl was still a child, so Michelle cannot possibly be as old as she is in the videotape before Harry dies.

[Yuki]

Assuming Cheryl knew Cybil and Lisa is possible but there is no evidence for it. It's pure conjecture. The only one who claims to know Cheryl is Michelle.

Now, if Michelle really went to high school with Cheryl, this eliminates Sirens&Sleaze. Harry died while Cheryl was still a child, so Michelle cannot possibly be as old as she is in the videotape before Harry dies.

I honestly think that the Prom Queen echoes are more about what Cheryl has experienced rather than Michelle herself. After thinking about it, I feel that Michelle stating she went to high school with Cheryl was simply to try and make it more believable of an illusion, despite the huge discrepancy with Cheryl's age.

[Harrys_Girl]

Assuming Cheryl knew Cybil and Lisa is possible but there is no evidence for it. It's pure conjecture. The only one who claims to know Cheryl is Michelle.

Now, if Michelle really went to high school with Cheryl, this eliminates Sirens&Sleaze. Harry died while Cheryl was still a child, so Michelle cannot possibly be as old as she is in the videotape before Harry dies.

Oh, who was even thinking for considering the S&S ending as the 'true' ending. It was the first ending I got and just like the BAD- ending of SH1, I dismissed it right away. You are w/ me aren't you anyway Droo. *wink*

I realize we don't have proof of such theories I put out, but we also don't have truth to the contrary. That it wasn't Cybil that arrived on scene. A police officer had to eventually be called and a nurse eventually would have seen Cheryl. Why not be Cybil and Lisa, since they are the only cop and nurse that we see in the game? If we had found a report somewhere either in-game or given by Dr. K to Cheryl stating exactly who was the mystery cop(s) and nurse(s) that Cheryl met in the moments after the crash, I would be willing to completely chalk the entire expirance to fantasy and say that Cheryl made up both Cybil and Lisa, that they were purely imaginary friends.

[FiliusMartis]

Going back to Cybil in the car with Harry, if you pay attention and watch out the window as you're riding you notice the snow begins to get noticeably thicker around the time Cybil is mentions that "the human brain is a delicate thing..." (This bit of dialogue has been in every playthrough I've done). Perhaps that suggestion is hitting a little too close to home causing Cheryl to subconsciously make the snow worse. You'll also notice that right before you become unable to see out the windows, you can distinctly see some sort of buildings. Getting out of the car and looking back, such are not evident in the slightest. You'll also notice that a large majority of the car's rear end is buried in the snow.

Perhaps Harry is simply transported to where he needs to be by Cheryl's subconscious will while Cybil remains in her real world location. Based on the condition of the car as stated above, this cannot be the real car a (hypothetically) real Cybil was driving in. The car in the woods must be a construct or illusion of some sort.

[AuraTwilight]

So the real Cybil was just making engine noises with her mouth and playing pretend or something?

[FiliusMartis]

I suggested no such thing. I'm not sure of exactly how physical laws work with constructs manifested to life by the town of Silent Hill, but I know it's not natural. I mean, the only other example we have to work with is Maria who dies and comes back to life in a locked room-- seems to suggest that they just sort of end up where they need to be if it fulfills their purpose.

Cybil is getting too close to home. "What do you know?" "The human brain is a delicate thing, Harry." The storm reacts to her pain and/or fear, as she is nowhere near ready to accept the truth at this point, and the snow increases. Cybil stops her real car and gets out. Maybe she walks up the road a little until she finds a road sign or something giving her enough direction; she says she's going to see where they are, after all. Meanwhile, Harry is taken via some supernatural means, perhaps simply Cheryl's influence, away from the risk of early exposure and to the woods, closer to his true purpose. The car he steps out of is not the same car; it is either a construct or an illusion, much like the car he wrecks at the beginning of the game.

I'm not saying I believe the theory or even that I've completely worked out all the details. It is a working theory that is based on the assumption that Cybil is currently real and alive, which is what Droo asked for.

[pj]

I suggested no such thing. I'm not sure of exactly how physical laws work with constructs manifested to life by the town of Silent Hill, but I know it's not natural. I mean, the only other example we have to work with is Maria who dies and comes back to life in a locked room-- seems to suggest that they just sort of end up where they need to be if it fulfills their purpose.

Cybil is getting too close to home. "What do you know?" "The human brain is a delicate thing, Harry." The storm reacts to her pain and/or fear, as she is nowhere near ready to accept the truth at this point, and the snow increases. Cybil stops her real car and gets out. Maybe she walks up the road a little until she finds a road sign or something giving her enough direction; she says she's going to see where they are, after all. Meanwhile, Harry is taken via some supernatural means, perhaps simply Cheryl's influence, away from the risk of early exposure and to the woods, closer to his true purpose. The car he steps out of is not the same car; it is either a construct or an illusion, much like the car he wrecks at the beginning of the game.

I'm not saying I believe the theory or even that I've completely worked out all the details. It is a working theory that is based on the assumption that Cybil is currently real and alive, which is what Droo asked for.

While I see little wrong with what you're saying in the context of this particular scene, how would it hold up in the Hospital sequence when the nightmare hits while Cybil's wheeling Harry down the hall?

(P.S. I realize you said yourself that the you don't necessarily subscribe the theory, but you are fleshing it out so I present you with the question)

[FiliusMartis]

Please let me clarify, I am not working on a theory to prove Cybil is real. I was working on a theory to explain the car in the woods incident given the stipulation that Cybil is real. The question of why Cybil freezes is better posed to Droo, who introduced and subscribes to the idea that she is so.

Nevertheless, I shall think about it and get back to you.

[deadwulf7]

Same as Dahlia, Michelle, and John: She's taking Harry further and further from where he actually needs to go.

wow interesting.... thats food for though right there

[Fevered Dream]

She's a crazy bitch who has no sense of direction I suppose.