Did this game really need a Mature rating?
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I think the fact that the game in general deals with subject matter of a mature nature. That alone warrants a mature rating in my opinion. Also the blood, the subtle references alone, being that it would take someone that is of a certain age to fully understand subtle references of this sort. I do not know many 13 year olds that can comprehend subtle references to anything, usually someone of that age has to have things spelled out in black and white terms. However to be fair not all 13 year olds are that dense I realize this.
However subtle as they are, the subject matter in this game is quite disturbing, and in true Silent Hill fashion, this game has many disturbing and subtle references to violence, sex, drugs, marriage problems. I mean only an adult would be able to fully understand what a bad marriage would be like. However to be fair once again, not all adults have been married, but many can still relate to going through at least one bad relationship. And this game is full of that sort of thing, also there is some profanity which is shouted out from time to time, words such as "Shit" and damn, and hell. To be fair damn and and hell are really just slang terms, but when you get into words like "Shit" Well your'e pushing it a bit into the mature court.
Also, this game is quite tense in it's chase scenes, which for someone who isn't mature may not be able to handle that. Hell I'm 27 and even I couldn't handle some of the chase scenes.
But in my opinion I believe that this game diserves the mature rating. A game doesn't have to have you ripping off heads and spitting down someone's throat to earn a mature rating. Just having adult content, and subtle reference to adult life is enough to warrant such a rating.
However subtle as they are, the subject matter in this game is quite disturbing, and in true Silent Hill fashion, this game has many disturbing and subtle references to violence, sex, drugs, marriage problems. I mean only an adult would be able to fully understand what a bad marriage would be like. However to be fair once again, not all adults have been married, but many can still relate to going through at least one bad relationship. And this game is full of that sort of thing, also there is some profanity which is shouted out from time to time, words such as "Shit" and damn, and hell. To be fair damn and and hell are really just slang terms, but when you get into words like "Shit" Well your'e pushing it a bit into the mature court.
Also, this game is quite tense in it's chase scenes, which for someone who isn't mature may not be able to handle that. Hell I'm 27 and even I couldn't handle some of the chase scenes.
But in my opinion I believe that this game diserves the mature rating. A game doesn't have to have you ripping off heads and spitting down someone's throat to earn a mature rating. Just having adult content, and subtle reference to adult life is enough to warrant such a rating.
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- warfare315
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The mature themes in the game would much easier go over a child's head than the original games, but they definitely warrant a Mature rating. Just not AS mature as past Silent Hill, haha.
The violence is minimal but there's swearing, sexual themes, even some blood, and it's just a pretty depressing game overall.
The violence is minimal but there's swearing, sexual themes, even some blood, and it's just a pretty depressing game overall.
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- cascade88
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I've personally known some thirteen and fourteen year olds who were far more able to comprehend such things than a lot of adults I've known. I'm not kidding. And, I know you said that they aren't "all so dense" in the next sentence, but , really, I think that's a bit silly to say in the first place, saying that they need things spelled out to them in black and white. Maybe if you were talking about an actual child, someone under the age of seven or eight--but thirteen? Come on.I do not know many 13 year olds that can comprehend subtle references to anything, usually someone of that age has to have things spelled out in black and white terms.
Actually, anyone who's been in an abusive relationship could have an idea about what violence and 'marriage problems' are like. While not in the same exact light, to some extent, a child just witnessing such things over several years would also get a slither of an idea of how terrible it is, even moreso if the child his or herself is subjected to any of the abuse, be it physical, verbal or mental.this game has many disturbing and subtle references to violence, sex, drugs, marriage problems. I mean only an adult would be able to fully understand what a bad marriage would be like.
Srsly? I've heard the work "fuck" in more than a couple PG13 films. Not to mention, you couldn't go into my junior high school hallway when I was 12 without hearing swearing worthy of sailors.but when you get into words like "Shit" Well your'e pushing it a bit into the mature court.
Well... they creeped me out, at first. But come on, at worst, the Raw Shocks caress Harry to "death". And even then, he doesn't really die, he just basically goes comatose, before regenerating from the last checkpoint. It's not that damn bad. I've seen scarier things in Legend of Zelda games.Also, this game is quite tense in it's chase scenes, which for someone who isn't mature may not be able to handle that. Hell I'm 27 and even I couldn't handle some of the chase scenes.
I agree, again. FiliusMartis's point about how rating it Teen would mean being comfortable with any teenager out there in the world playing it changed my mind on it not being rated M, in that sense. However, I still personally don't find it near as bad, or as scary, violent, or creepy as the other Silent Hill titles. I really just don't. warfare315 said it well, and I agree:But in my opinion I believe that this game diserves the mature rating. A game doesn't have to have you ripping off heads and spitting down someone's throat to earn a mature rating. Just having adult content, and subtle reference to adult life is enough to warrant such a rating.
By the way, I'm not trying to spark some other big fight here by replying the way I did, I just think that the generalizations are kind of unfair. Some arguments in this thread make all teenagers sound like fragile, two-dimensional beings who live in convents and monasteries, using swear words like "gosh golly darn it!", while being completely oblivious to the existance of both violence and drugs. Oh, and apparently blood, too. No one's slapping a big letter M on the corner of Stephenie Meyer's Breaking Dawn, despite having one of the most disturbing, violent, bloody, and disgusting birth scenes of all time.but they definitely warrant a Mature rating. Just not AS mature as past Silent Hill
To some all that up: I get why this game has an M rating, especially taking ESRB standards into account. I don't get why teenagers are being portrayed in the light that they are. It's actually kind of surprising to me.
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- warfare315
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- FiliusMartis
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When discussing whether or not the game is appropriate for 13-16 year olds, you can't take the smartest most precocious examples, nor can you take the opposite. What must be considered here is the average. Can the average player of around 14.5 years of age understand this game and are the themes appropriate for said player? I think the answer to at least the latter is a clear no.
I maintain that Shattered Memories is on equal grounds with the other titles; it just does so in a more subtle manner without pushing blood and violence in your face.
Yeah if you take them at face value as squishy pink things. If you consider that they are reflections, manifestations rather, of the main character's daughter... it becomes more disturbing when they develop breasts and high heels, or become emaciated and disjointed, or their heads cave in or.. you get my point. It's the idea behind these things that make them disturbing. And what have you seen in Zelda that rivals such?cascade88 wrote:Well... they creeped me out, at first. But come on, at worst, the Raw Shocks caress Harry to "death"
I maintain that Shattered Memories is on equal grounds with the other titles; it just does so in a more subtle manner without pushing blood and violence in your face.
- cascade88
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Again, I said that I agree with you on that. a.k.a: you win. I concede--it shouldn't be rated T for Teens. Nevertheless, I can't understand why teenagers, in general, are being classified as dimwitted and 2-dimensional with no grasp of anything considered "deep".Can the average player of around 14.5 years of age understand this game and are the themes appropriate for said player? I think the answer to at least the latter is a clear no.
I do, and yeah, the first couple of playthroughs, watching them evolve and change as they pursued me creeped me out. Around the middle of, oh, the third playthrough, it started to get old. It just did. Just like the monsters of previous titles were apparently never scary to some of the members of this forum, these ended up being non-disturbing to me, over all. I understand the idea behind them, and I went into the game having spoiled myself to begin with, so I got it--I really understand why it's meant to be creepy, sad, disturbing. Still, after so many playthroughs, it loses that effect, to me. How many times have you yourself played through the game, out of curiosity?Yeah if you take them at face value as squishy pink things. If you consider that they are reflections, manifestations rather, of the main character's daughter... it becomes more disturbing when they develop breasts and high heels, or become emaciated and disjointed, or their heads cave in or.. you get my point
Off the top of my head, the Redeads, pretty much all of Majora's Mask, this nifty little Twilight Prince sequence, and to a lesser extent, Dead Hand and Bongo Bongo.And what have you seen in Zelda that rivals such?
They're not the same types of scares as Raw Shocks are meant to imply, but the above certainly startled me more than the events in SHSM.
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- FiliusMartis
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My point is you're taking it to mean all teenagers vast sweeping generalization when it's more often meant as teenagers on average.
Again, my point is not that watching them change is creepy; my point is that the symbolism behind the change when really thought about is somewhat disturbing. I would have to say that at least there is the element of surprise to some extent. In previous titles you could pretty much count where almost every monster was by your second playthrough.
As far as Zelda goes, I saw nothing really deeply disturbing in that scene. It had a mild shock/creepy factor but nothing deep or psychological. Likewise with ReDeads ...they were more of an 'eeew' factor to me. Yes they startled you more, but if you think about them are they disturbing on a deep level? Not really...
Again, my point is not that watching them change is creepy; my point is that the symbolism behind the change when really thought about is somewhat disturbing. I would have to say that at least there is the element of surprise to some extent. In previous titles you could pretty much count where almost every monster was by your second playthrough.
As far as Zelda goes, I saw nothing really deeply disturbing in that scene. It had a mild shock/creepy factor but nothing deep or psychological. Likewise with ReDeads ...they were more of an 'eeew' factor to me. Yes they startled you more, but if you think about them are they disturbing on a deep level? Not really...
- cascade88
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^ To be honest, neither the Redeads, nor the Raw Shocks disturb me on a deep level. The Redeads still creep me out more, though.
And.... saying that teenagers on average won't grasp the content of the game IS making a sweeping generalization about teenagers your own self.
And.... saying that teenagers on average won't grasp the content of the game IS making a sweeping generalization about teenagers your own self.
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To approach this from another angle, I think it's worth noting that much of the game's tone is reflective.
For instance, though Harry (and, by extension, Cheryl) go to Midwich High, it's in the context of revisiting it. This is gonna sound obvious, but being 24 has placed high school in a different context than it was when I was actually in it. Because of this, it seems pretty clear that the intended audience has not only left high school, but has also had enough distance to reflect upon it from a new perspective.
An actual high schooler (or a middle schooler, for that matter) won't understand these feelings, even if they can vaguely conceptualize it. This isn't a matter of being intelligent or smart, but of experience: Until you've stood at that vantage point, you don't know what it's like.
For instance, though Harry (and, by extension, Cheryl) go to Midwich High, it's in the context of revisiting it. This is gonna sound obvious, but being 24 has placed high school in a different context than it was when I was actually in it. Because of this, it seems pretty clear that the intended audience has not only left high school, but has also had enough distance to reflect upon it from a new perspective.
An actual high schooler (or a middle schooler, for that matter) won't understand these feelings, even if they can vaguely conceptualize it. This isn't a matter of being intelligent or smart, but of experience: Until you've stood at that vantage point, you don't know what it's like.
- NeoAquarius12
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I am not sure about that. I feel like, when I was in high school, I could comprehend the idea of what it's like to return to a high school... at least mentally. I am pretty sure it would be different on an emotional level because of personal connection, but mentally, it's within reach. I could agree that not every single person in the age group would be able to make his leap, but I don't know if that is where my main argument would lie.
On a personal level, I feel like at the age of 15, you're going to understand to understand the items that are intended for mature viewers if only in the most basic sense. But as it has been said in this thread countless times, it does not count for everyone.
On a personal level, I feel like at the age of 15, you're going to understand to understand the items that are intended for mature viewers if only in the most basic sense. But as it has been said in this thread countless times, it does not count for everyone.
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The game contains sexual, alcoholic, and even drug-related references. Of course it deserves an M rating, if lower, I would say that the youngest person to play this would be around 12 or 13. Just because there's no blood or gore doesn't mean that it should be rated Teen. Rule of Rose had a very mature story that was mysterious and disturbing, but there was hardly any violence in it-but it still got an M for Mature.
That being said, Shattered Memories does deserve a Mature rating.
That being said, Shattered Memories does deserve a Mature rating.
- FiliusMartis
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You missed my point. An average is not a generalization. A generalization is making a statement which applies to every member of a given group. An average is making a statement which summarizes the difference between the unequals of a group. The difference may be subtle, but it's significant.cascade88 wrote:And.... saying that teenagers on average won't grasp the content of the game IS making a sweeping generalization about teenagers your own self.
Even if you want to write off the Raw Shocks as not disturbing on a deeper level (in which case I feel you're severely missing something), you surely cannot deny that there are intense aspects of the game which are... and none of that is in Zelda. Zelda is a very face value game.
- cascade88
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I didn't miss your point. I don't believe I did. I believe you could have missed mine. A few posts have more or less said that teenagers just can't handle what was in this game. Sorry, I guess I'll forever fail to see what big invisible line lies between teendom and adulthood in terms of mental conception.
Also, I'm not writing off the Raw Shocks as non-disturbing. They obviously did their job in creeping you and other plays out, am I right? They just don't get under my skin anymore. They did the first time. The first time, I was very mentally and emotionally wrapped up in the story. Unfortunately, being the kind of story that it is, I don't find it possible to ever get as attatched to it as I did my first time through it. I don't think I'm missing a thing.
Also, I'm not writing off the Raw Shocks as non-disturbing. They obviously did their job in creeping you and other plays out, am I right? They just don't get under my skin anymore. They did the first time. The first time, I was very mentally and emotionally wrapped up in the story. Unfortunately, being the kind of story that it is, I don't find it possible to ever get as attatched to it as I did my first time through it. I don't think I'm missing a thing.
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