The greatest story ever told in a video game?

[Numb Body01]

I've not, don't think I ever will (see my review in the titular thread to see why). Although I have read a lot of the analysis on the threads here and see the clever symbolism/suggestions and parallels that would be apparent if I did play it a second time. Still don't think it's as heartbreaking or ground breaking as everyone says.

[AuraTwilight]

Your loss, I guess.

[Numb Body01]

Why do you have to be such a dick all of the time? I don't wanna start a flaming war or argument at all but your attitude is so often just plain rude.

[alone in the town]

He does have a point, though. This isn't like Silent Hill 2 where you can play through the game, get your ending, then go watch the others on YouTube. With this game, you literally only get pieces of the story on a single playthrough. I'm currently on my fourth run, and I still see things I haven't seen before, and each branching portrait of Harry Mason shows a very different man, and a very different family. I'm beginning to believe that the real Harry (and Dahlia) are composites of all these simplified and disparate identities, so if you cut it off at one playthrough, you've only met part of the man.

[Numb Body01]

Fair enough, that's a better explanation. I just can't play that game again, really didn't like it.

[simeonalo]

Aside from the current discussion, people, you need to remember that the Harry we're playing as is not the real Harry that Cheryl and Dahlia knew. For all we know, he could've been a sex maniac, an alcoholic, a wuss, a father who loved his daughter, a man who was abducted by aliens, or a combination of those.

[AuraTwilight]

I'm beginning to believe that the real Harry (and Dahlia) are composites of all these simplified and disparate identities, so if you cut it off at one playthrough, you've only met part of the man.

That's pretty much my stance on the matter. Why would Cheryl's psychology retroactively alter her family history? And also, not only do a couple of the endings TOTALLY justify "Dahlia = Monster", but half of the endings make the process of idealizing Harry into complete fucking mental gymnastics.

The way I personally see it, Harry has some shitty success with work, becomes all alcoholic and depressed (Drunk Dad), and Dahlia eventually loses her cool (Wicked and Weak). After the embarassment infront of Cheryl, he gets revenge and makes a super cornball, spiteful sex tape with some bitches over Dahlia's Wedding Video as a big "take that" (Sleaze and Sirens), and then the two mellow out and eventually divorce on good terms (Love Lost).

[Yuki]

I'm beginning to believe that the real Harry (and Dahlia) are composites of all these simplified and disparate identities, so if you cut it off at one playthrough, you've only met part of the man.

That's pretty much my stance on the matter. Why would Cheryl's psychology retroactively alter her family history? And also, not only do a couple of the endings TOTALLY justify "Dahlia = Monster", but half of the endings make the process of idealizing Harry into complete fucking mental gymnastics.

The way I personally see it, Harry has some shitty success with work, becomes all alcoholic and depressed (Drunk Dad), and Dahlia eventually loses her cool (Wicked and Weak). After the embarassment infront of Cheryl, he gets revenge and makes a super cornball, spiteful sex tape with some bitches over Dahlia's Wedding Video as a big "take that" (Sleaze and Sirens), and then the two mellow out and eventually divorce on good terms (Love Lost).

I see it similarly, though it's possible that Dahlia just loses her temper, which drives him to drink.

[AuraTwilight]

Right, the first two can kind've go either way, but I see the Sleaze Ending as being a result of Wicked and Weak, and the Drunkenness a result of his stress. If both endings are caused by Dahlia's abuse, she becomes totally unsympathetic and the blame really does rest solely on her, which completely contradicts Kauffman's infallible word and compromises the story we're given.

[Yuki]

Right, the first two can kind've go either way, but I see the Sleaze Ending as being a result of Wicked and Weak, and the Drunkenness a result of his stress. If both endings are caused by Dahlia's abuse, she becomes totally unsympathetic and the blame really does rest solely on her, which completely contradicts Kauffman's infallible word and compromises the story we're given.

Hmm. I can see it, though it's possible that she was under a lot of stress. However, that interpretation relies more on what *may* have happened, whereas yours relies more on what possibly/did happen.

[alone in the town]

I'm beginning to believe that the real Harry (and Dahlia) are composites of all these simplified and disparate identities, so if you cut it off at one playthrough, you've only met part of the man.

That's pretty much my stance on the matter. Why would Cheryl's psychology retroactively alter her family history? And also, not only do a couple of the endings TOTALLY justify "Dahlia = Monster", but half of the endings make the process of idealizing Harry into complete fucking mental gymnastics.

The way I personally see it, Harry has some shitty success with work, becomes all alcoholic and depressed (Drunk Dad), and Dahlia eventually loses her cool (Wicked and Weak). After the embarassment infront of Cheryl, he gets revenge and makes a super cornball, spiteful sex tape with some bitches over Dahlia's Wedding Video as a big "take that" (Sleaze and Sirens), and then the two mellow out and eventually divorce on good terms (Love Lost).

I look at it a little differently. I don't think the real Harry Mason was ever any of the idealized Harry Masons to which we are subjected. I think each one of them (haven't yet gotten Wicked and Weak yet so I am making 25% of an assumption) represents an aspect of his character that Cheryl has amplified in her own mind and recollection. I don't think he's Super Dad + Drunk Dad + Slut Dad + Henpecked Dad, but that all of these depictions are exaggerations of things he did and who he really was. He loved his daughter unconditionally, which is why that thread runs through every scenario, but Super Dad was almost without fault while the other three seem to be highly-flawed and (from the two I saw) without hardly any redeeming value.

I think the real Harry Mason was a loving, dedicated father who sometimes drank too much, probably at one point carried on an adulterous affair and this because he and his wife did not get along as well as they should have. I don't think he was ever a knight in shining armor, I don't think he was a huge stewbum, and I'm pretty sure the super threesome never really happened and his rotten comments within it never actually spoken.

And, this is why the ending analysis recommends starting over after each scenario: one needs to see all four of these exaggerated aspects to see that they mix into a solution, because none of them, alone, are the correct answer.

[AuraTwilight]

Right, and I agree. The fact of the matter, though, is that the tapes are objective reality, like James' tape. They're not memories she exaggerated in her mind, or anything, so whatever Harry really is, he played out one of those four scenes exactly as we see them. So yes, any Harry we get is some idealized caricature where the scales tip to one facet of who he was and blows him out of proportion.

[DistantJ]

The way I see it, Shattered Memories is Silent Hill 2-2, but featuring the premise from the first... Almost like what SH1 would have been if SH2's stance had been taken from the beginning, so it's a character being tortured by their own mind in this evil town (if you've beaten the game you'll know it's a lot different to that, but for the most part, close enough)... Almost like Silent Hill 2's essence without the ties to the original game holding it back. I'd love to see more like this, which can stick close to a character-driven story without requiring cults and all that H.P. Lovecraft stuff.

[alone in the town]

The fact of the matter, though, is that the tapes are objective reality, like James' tape.

How do we know this? I know Dr. K. mentions the home videos, but how do we know that any of the ones we see are objectively real? Or, are you saying it's like Silent Hill 2's endings, where any one of them can be real but none of them are specifically real?

It's mostly the presence of Michelle in one of them that makes me wonder, because she's younger than Cheryl, so if he's been dead for eighteen years, the Sleaze tape introduces a major internal continuity problem.

[AuraTwilight]

How do we know this? I know Dr. K. mentions the home videos, but how do we know that any of the ones we see are objectively real?

They're literally what's on the tape after the family vacation. It's part of why Cheryl kept rewinding it. They're visions of the truth, even if only a partial aspect of it.

Or, are you saying it's like Silent Hill 2's endings, where any one of them can be real but none of them are specifically real?

My personal opinion is that all four tapes are equally 100% real, though it's possible to interpret it as being a Schrodinger's ending like SH2's conclusions.

It's mostly the presence of Michelle in one of them that makes me wonder, because she's younger than Cheryl, so if he's been dead for eighteen years, the Sleaze tape introduces a major internal continuity problem.

The Michelle we meet in the game isn't the real Michelle. Everyone construct!Harry meets is also a construct. Similarly, Michelle Valdez was never Cheryl's underclassman, that's her role in the imaginary narrative.

[sneaky]

very nice observation... thank goodness I already have the game and still (always) love playing it...

[Dante]

So, the whole game is Cheryl´s mind while she is on doc K´s therapy session...

Man, honestly I was shocked when Harry step inside K´s therapy room and then it showed that the one who was the pacient is Cheryl in her twenties.

Thanks for the info,it really cleared my vision on the story and its little but important details. ...