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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Cheryl and her teacher

Missing since: 07 Mar 2010
Notes left: 17
3 days now and still thinking an unhealthy lot about this game >_>.

I've been working on a pretext that Cheryl is a virgin, or at least she has never had consented sex with anyone. There are a lot of scenes that put her in very sexual situations, but I don't believe she has ever gone through with it.

The biggest scene to dispute that theory is the supposed affair with her teacher. However, the more I think about those scenes, the more I don't believe she ever had an affair with her teacher.

So the question is:
Do you think Cheryl had an affair with her teacher, and why?


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 17 Nov 2009
Notes left: 275
Last seen at: Pleasant River
I don't know because I haven't had a chance to play the game yet. :(


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 27 Jan 2010
Notes left: 12
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
I got the overall impression that she is unhealthily promiscuous, including having an affair with her teacher. It's not an uncommon pattern among young women who have lost or were abandoned by their father. The older man plays a lot into that as well, which makes it easy for me to believe the teacher bit. I'm not saying she was being overtly slutty, just unmindful of the situations she put herself in, and lacking in boundary issues. Um, yeah.
Cheers!!

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
I believe that she did have sex with her teacher. I don't want to believe it, but it all adds up to that. I couldn't get over it either, but what the Psychiatrist tells her about her "abnormal sexuality" that would be the only reason why he'd mention that to her. So yes, she had sex with her teacher.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2195
Last seen at: Koholint island
I think that the "abnormal sexuality" could also refer to her not wanting to have sex, via the "Frigid" message.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
Notes left: 3073
Last seen at: Wisconsin
Here we go again.

Anyways, I will explain why I think she had sex with her teacher. Throughout the game, the psychiatrist keeps going on about how Cherly needed that "older man" in her life. So, since everybody at school picked on the poor thing, her teacher was probably the only one that she could talk to. She probably got too close and ended up getting sexually attracted to him and did the naughty. So.. in a way maybe she didn't have sex but she certainly did something with him. The class would not be making rumors up about her being with the teacher if someone didn't see something their selves. They were too close and that's so very wrong to do with your teacher. It made good gossip. Hehe, I might have to play that crappy game all over again to explain it a bit more, but there is my opinion on it. 8)

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 08 Mar 2010
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Last seen at: Chicago
I think Cascade has a point. Cheryl was always called frigid. It almost seems to me like she was the type to feel she needed to be in a relationship or find a father figure, but as soon as the boyfriends wanted to take it a step further, she couldn't seem to give it up. But what would hold her back? That's what I can't really connect. Was it the memory of her father?

Edit: Maybe she didn't get close to boys her own age. Maybe she only felt more comfortable with father figures like the teacher, then.


Last edited by Anxiety Sponge, MD on 10 Mar 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1519
Last seen at: Colombia
Prisonic Fairytale wrote:
I don't know because I haven't had a chance to play the game yet. :(


So.. Why are you posting here??


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 08 Apr 2008
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Quote:
Edit: Maybe she didn't get close to boys her own age. Maybe she only felt more comfortable with father figures like the teacher, then.

Yeah. I believe that's the psychiatrists whole point.
I don't remember that many details from the game, but that's the one thing I remember. Her want for older men.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I think it's pretty clear she had an affair with him, considering there's atleast three different indications, and it got to the point where Mr. K Gordon had to make a public statement about it. I also see no evidence or indication that she didn't go through with any of the sex situations she's been placed in with older men, aside from the "deny sex" thing, which can mean practically anything, especially when contrasted by her other statements.

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 02 Aug 2005
Notes left: 1519
Last seen at: Colombia
Is Mr. Gordon the teacher that she was dating with? I think he is...

Having in mind the phone call to his home where he is denying a relationship with a girl (Cheryl) and the fact that Cheryl is denying sex (Being a frigid girl) I think Cheryl is dating her teacher in a more platonic way... If the mentioned teacher is the same Mr. Gordon from the phone call I could say that the sex never happened between them... I don't have any solid evidence about this but I think that Mr. Gordon would share that feeling of help Cheryl like K Gordon did with Alessa... Cheryl could feel attracted by his protective male model... Like the ideal that she had of Harry...


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 07 Mar 2010
Notes left: 17
I'll put an idea about the teacher that came to me today. For the record, I also thought that she had an affair with him until I started thinking about the idea of her Electra personality, and how it did not seem to add up because she seems to be sexually inactive.

When you go into the nightmare, you meet a bunch of teenagers peeping in the door. They claim that the teacher is having an affair with her, but how can they know what is actaully happening behind the door. The first thing that caught me out was how they want you to go 'gather evidence'. it sounds almost like a witch hunt. Also, their motives seem to be aimed at embarrassing the teacher as they have a personal grudge against him.

When you go out to get the photos, you come across 3 scenes where they are glowing red and feel eerie. You also see the shadows of the mannequins on the other side embracing.
However, is it not possible that as the key paparazzi, you are only looking at what you want to see?

When you take the photo, you do not capture the picture of the two people kissing, or hugging, or either touching one another. There is no missing or half open clothes, hell there's not even lipstick on the teachers face.
What you capture is two people looking into the camera in a rather shocked and misunderstanding motion. Though you could argue that they are acting surprised for being caught, you actually fail in every picture to capture any image that the pair are committing in any sexual or relationship based act.

The only picture that has any sexual reference, is the shower. What's missing in the shower scene? Because I couldn't see the teacher in there!
So what exactly is the point of the paparazzi shower scene? It almost feels like the photographer is desperately trying to invent this sexual based affair that these two people are having, when it could quite easily have been an innocent teacher/pupil relationship about problems in home life or studies.

The question you would then ask is, why would the affair scene be a nightmare if she didn't do it. Well my answer to taht is why not? If you were at school and suddenly rumours spread around your peers that you were doing a teacher, how would you feel? I can see very well exactly why that would be a nightmare scenario, especially for a girl. Because at the end of the day, even though the students were gunning for the teacher, who is the person that ends up taking the butt end of the joke for the rest of their school life?

When you look at all the sex based scenes, there is no evidence that Cheryl ever participated in them.
In the woods, even if she was raped, there is no evidence that she willing went out to have sex with people, it was more drugs and alcohol.

In the cat house (and thats an important title, cat house does not equal brothel), you have scenes of a girl crying on the sofa because she just lost her wig. The guy in one of the scenes is demanding that they go upstairs, but there is no evidence that they did. It is entirely possible that was an image of her first day at work there, and she bottled it on the first customer.
Even if you choose to believe that the guy took her back to the school, there is no evidence she had sex with him in the car, in fact there is no evidence in any of his speeches that he had sexual motives other than dropping her off.

Her boyfriend voiceovers constantly have him complaining that she is not putting out. In fact it is that very reason that she ends up getting dumped by him.

So exactly what has Cheryl done that makes her sexually promiscuous? When you think about it, there's only a lot of situations that can be interpretted ina sexual way, but in fact can be easily explained in more innocent fashions. It's only the players mind that instantly applies the thought for it to be worst.

I'll finish up the thought with another question. All the images you get of Cheryl throughout the game. Is there any one image that openly makes her look like she is sexually promiscuous, or does she come across as more of a prude?


Last edited by Venoid on 11 Mar 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Dec 2009
Notes left: 99
Last seen at: My own Otherworld
Thoughtful post, Venoid. A good perspective on it :)
I'd throw in my own two cents but my memory is foggy (Ironically since this is the only SH without fog) on that scene.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Quote:
When you take the photo, you do not capture the picture of the two people kissing, or hugging, or either touching one another. What you capture is two people looking into the camera in a rather shocked and misunderstanding motion. Though you could argue that they are acting surprised for being caught, you actually fail in every picture to capture any image that the pair are committing in any sexual or relationship based act.


While it's possible that they are misinterpreting it, the fact that every woman in the game has a "thing" for people that are like their fathers, not to mention the fact that Cheryl and Gordon are actually shocked at being photographed, it seems like they're definitely in a relationship whether it be sexual or not.

Quote:
In the cat house (and thats an important title, cat house does not equal brothel), you have scenes of a girl crying on the sofa because she just lost her wig. The guy in one of the scenes is demanding that they go upstairs, but there is no evidence that they did.


First: the Cat House is marketed to give pleasure to callers. Cat House is simply the name of an establishment; we don't call every grocery store, "Grocery Store", do we?

Second: From what I can remember of the echoes in this segment, it sounds to me like they DID indeed go upstairs... until the customer realized that the pigtails were a wig, and then he was furious.

Quote:
Her boyfriend voiceovers constantly have him complaining that she is not putting out. In fact it is that very reason that she ends up getting dumped by him.


Except this is the only boyfriend that is around her age; contrast this with everyone that has a thing for their fathers in the game, the fact that Cheryl was involved with her teacher, AND the "abnormal sexuality" that we get established, and it seems very strong that Cheryl only wanted to have sex with older men.
If we cannot believe anything except for exactly what is said in therapy sessions, we hardly know anything about Cheryl at all. If we are to believe the paparazzi are unreliable, then every single echo is, and we can't know anything about her life.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Is Mr. Gordon the teacher that she was dating with? I think he is...


He is.

Quote:
Having in mind the phone call to his home where he is denying a relationship with a girl (Cheryl) and the fact that Cheryl is denying sex (Being a frigid girl) I think Cheryl is dating her teacher in a more platonic way... If the mentioned teacher is the same Mr. Gordon from the phone call I could say that the sex never happened between them... I don't have any solid evidence about this but I think that Mr. Gordon would share that feeling of help Cheryl like K Gordon did with Alessa... Cheryl could feel attracted by his protective male model... Like the ideal that she had of Harry...


You know, that's actually a good idea, but then why did Mr. Gordon not explain himself if it was something as innocent as that (and I imagine that shower scene was somehow related, or why include it?)

Quote:
When you take the photo, you do not capture the picture of the two people kissing, or hugging, or either touching one another. There is no missing or half open clothes, hell there's not even lipstick on the teachers face.
What you capture is two people looking into the camera in a rather shocked and misunderstanding motion. Though you could argue that they are acting surprised for being caught, you actually fail in every picture to capture any image that the pair are committing in any sexual or relationship based act.

The only picture that has any sexual reference, is the shower. What's missing in the shower scene? Because I couldn't see the teacher in there!
So what exactly is the point of the paparazzi shower scene? It almost feels like the photographer is desperately trying to invent this sexual based affair that these two people are having, when it could quite easily have been an innocent teacher/pupil relationship about problems in home life or studies.


This is a very convincing argument, but if the two aren't doing anything wrong, why do they still look ashamed?

Quote:
In the cat house (and thats an important title, cat house does not equal brothel), you have scenes of a girl crying on the sofa because she just lost her wig. The guy in one of the scenes is demanding that they go upstairs, but there is no evidence that they did. It is entirely possible that was an image of her first day at work there, and she bottled it on the first customer.


The place can also be called the Honey Trap and the Oriental Massage (and there's mention of happy endings), the phone call also makes it EXTREMELY obvious that you have sex with the girls.

And again, you keep assuming that the girl is crying over the wig, or the guy hit her because of the wig. She's crying because he kept hitting her, and he got angry because she "looks like his daughter", which could be referring to anything.

Anyway, he takes her upstairs, so they're probably going to fuck anyway.

Quote:
Her boyfriend voiceovers constantly have him complaining that she is not putting out. In fact it is that very reason that she ends up getting dumped by him.


And if she has an Electra Complex, it's because he's not anything like her father.

Quote:
So exactly what has Cheryl done that makes her sexually promiscuous? When you think about it, there's only a lot of situations that can be interpretted ina sexual way, but in fact can be easily explained in more innocent fashions. It's only the players mind that instantly applies the thought for it to be worst.


Well, discounting the thing about a girl taking her clothes off and running around, there's also the constant talk about girls who like people who remind them of their dads, and there's the whole Dahlia business, and even if she isn't a Cheryl Avatar, it's pretty clear that she represents Cheryl's thoughts on sex.

Quote:
Second: From what I can remember of the echoes in this segment, it sounds to me like they DID indeed go upstairs... until the customer realized that the pigtails were a wig, and then he was furious.


In almost all variations, he says, "now...put the wig back on, and let's go upstairs."

The knowledge of the wig doesn't bother him in the slightest.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 29 Dec 2009
Notes left: 27
I think the pieces can fall in place just as well either way, depending on whether Cheryl answers yes to being a virgin or not. If she answers no, then it's very possible that she had sex with Mr. Gordon, since those scenes are the main sex-oriented ones that occur around the high school (as opposed to the car where her boyfriend tried to rape her, etc. I guess pigtails could also count, if that's really Cheryl) which was the focus of that chunk of the therapy session.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Nov 2003
Notes left: 128
The basic fact that we're given the opportunity to answer whether Cheryl is a virgin or not, and they do affect the game, says to me that the events are open enough to make either answer true.

The more I played and the more I thought about it, the less literal many elements seemed to become for me. The photo thing, as I mentioned in the In the woods thread, seems more about fears to me than an actual event.

Cheryl is assigning roles to herself and she is repressing certain aspects of her personality. She could have had a thing for Mr.Gordon and played the whole thing out, putting herself in the role of guilty temptress or victim of harassment, without actually having gone through any of it.

To be honest, given the big reveal at the end and the point I took from that, I don't think the real Cheryl has led half as interesting a life as those echoes make out.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
Dogg Thang wrote:
The basic fact that we're given the opportunity to answer whether Cheryl is a virgin or not, and they do affect the game, says to me that the events are open enough to make either answer true.

The more I played and the more I thought about it, the less literal many elements seemed to become for me. The photo thing, as I mentioned in the In the woods thread, seems more about fears to me than an actual event.

Cheryl is assigning roles to herself and she is repressing certain aspects of her personality. She could have had a thing for Mr.Gordon and played the whole thing out, putting herself in the role of guilty temptress or victim of harassment, without actually having gone through any of it.

To be honest, given the big reveal at the end and the point I took from that, I don't think the real Cheryl has led half as interesting a life as those echoes make out.


Quoted because it's pretty much what I was going to say.

We can answer if she is a "virgin" or a "slut," so I think there are various possibilities.

Also, being as the whole main part of the game is a delusion, I don't think most of it should be taken absolutely literally. Some of the stuff could represent possibilities or fantasies, or could be symbolic of actual events or desires or fears.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 07 Mar 2010
Notes left: 17
You don't answer if she is a virgin or a slut. You answer that question based on her oppinion of school. Okay, you could relate that to her talking about herself, but what about jock? If the player nods to jock does that suddenly make her a transvestite?

The answers you give in the sessions only affect her perception of the world around her. They in no way change her story or her personality. In fact she never changes at the end of the session, the PI only affects the vision of Harry you receive.

Lets assume you push the sex PI. You answer yes to slut, no to virgin, push the sex education in school, look at every naughty poster etc etc.
Does the nightmare scene with her teacher change? Do any of the pictures change? Does the echo with her boyfriend whose complaining about her being frigid change? The answer is, no. So there is no reason to believe that anything the player does in the session relates directly to Cheryl as a character. If you push the drunk PI, do you get any echo in the game that suggests she is addicted to alcohol?

There is still 0 evidence that she ever had an affair with her teacher. The only evidence is the voiceover of 4-5 random teenagers, who don't exactly sound like they are all that bright or care much for the truth. The funniest thing about that whole scene that I find, is I could actually see those teenagers building up this story that because her father died at an early age she has an Electra complex which is why she is dating her teacher :p. Kind of ironic don't you think? :p


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
The funniest thing about that whole scene that I find, is I could actually see those teenagers building up this story that because her father died at an early age she has an Electra complex which is why she is dating her teacher :p. Kind of ironic don't you think? :p


That was completely inappropriate, don't you think?

anyway, Jock doesn't mean "transvestite", and the questions specifically ask Cheryl what type of person she was in school. Her "perceptions of the world" have nothing to do with it, she's evaluating herself.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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