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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2006
Notes left: 465
> "i guess you forgot about SH? y'know, the first game in the series? did you forget how the Mumblers would gang up on Harry in Midwich? there were also those nigthflutter things that would fly around town and chase you, constantly plucking you in the head."

You could outrun them very easily. You just had to use tactics, and not run in a straight line like a simpleton. Of course - this was harder on the HARD setting, but I guess that's why they called it that.

> "and if combat was never important to series, the developers would've axed it a long time ago"

This just isn't true. There are many games that have more than what is simply required.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
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guess you forgot about SH? y'know, the first game in the series? did you forget how the Mumblers would gang up on Harry in Midwich? there were also those nigthflutter things that would fly around town and chase you, constantly plucking you in the head. they were fast enough to catch you even if you ran, so you had to shoot them at times. lets not forget the romper's while we're at it... try walking away from any of those and you die. also, those monsters made the overall experience more terrifying for me, seeing as i ran from most of them, and was afraid to be caught by them.


You can run around all those fuckers. I can prove it with walkthrough videos, if you want. Just because you suck ass at escaping monsters doesn't mean they're inevitable encounters.

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and if combat was never important to series, the developers would've axed it a long time ago. they also wouldn't have spent any time trying to improve it with each new entry to the series.


False Dichonomy. "Not important" doesn't mean "Totally balls worthless", it only means "not central" and "not critical." To that end, axing it would be detrimental too early because this doesn't work for most games and most fans, and improving it is simply good business sense because huge ass annoyances in a game isn't profitable.

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and typical. someone has a negative opinion about SM and then it's defenders start to bash Homecoming. The TC did ask us for our opinion after all. i didn't even mention Homecoming, nor compare it to SM once in my post, so let's just stick to SM please? save the HC bashing for the HC section.


Oh stop being so overly sensitive, I wasn't bashing Homecoming. It is an objective fact that the combat is more focused on in Homecoming than in any other game and has the highest enemy count. For good or bad, this is a FACT.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 13 Aug 2006
Notes left: 588
Last seen at: I can't remember.
I'd say it was neither a step forward nor background. Climax tried too hard to change the formula up and they pretty much failed miserably in the whole chase scenes aspect. It was perhaps interesting the first time around but after a few journeys into the otherworld it just gets repetitive, boring, and frustrating.

When it comes to the storyline though and elements of the psyche analysis I think they did a pretty decent job. If only they had stuck with the established gameplay of the earlier games then this game would have been wonderful. I'm not totally against them using the whole no weapons or combat aspects of SM in a future installment (and I would for sure like to see the icy otherworld again preferably in next gen graphics), but they sure as hell have to step it up a notch and implement it in a way that is actually scary and fun.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2006
Notes left: 465
I liked this game, it was a fresh, nice change.
And it was a good game I thought.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Fevered Dream wrote:
I'd say it was neither a step forward nor background. Climax tried too hard to change the formula up and they pretty much failed miserably in the whole chase scenes aspect. It was perhaps interesting the first time around but after a few journeys into the otherworld it just gets repetitive, boring, and frustrating.

When it comes to the storyline though and elements of the psyche analysis I think they did a pretty decent job. If only they had stuck with the established gameplay of the earlier games then this game would have been wonderful. I'm not totally against them using the whole no weapons or combat aspects of SM in a future installment (and I would for sure like to see the icy otherworld again preferably in next gen graphics), but they sure as hell have to step it up a notch and implement it in a way that is actually scary and fun.


This is more or less the best answer. It's not that anything they did was a bad idea, it just needed work. I've noticed basically two camps on the disagreement side: The guys who would've been fine with the chase scenes if it weren't for it's flawed execution, and the guys who are just unpleasable and want to kill shit.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 28 Aug 2009
Notes left: 379
Last seen at: Blue Creek Apartments
I thought the game was great and loved every aspect of it. I think besides SH2 being the best game in the series, SM was a fresh take on the series and a serious improvement over all. I thought the no weapons thing was the best part of the game besides the plot and atmosphere.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
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AuraTwilight wrote:

You can run around all those fuckers. I can prove it with walkthrough videos, if you want. Just because you suck ass at escaping monsters doesn't mean they're inevitable encounters.

Oh stop being so overly sensitive, I wasn't bashing Homecoming. It is an objective fact that the combat is more focused on in Homecoming than in any other game and has the highest enemy count. For good or bad, this is a FACT.


not overly sensitive, just didn't see the need to bring up HC since we're talking about SM here. i could care less that people hate it.

and wow... i actually never said i sucked ass at escaping the monsters in SH. i only said you had to run from them to elude them, instead of simply walking. in my first post, i said the only game that came to mind in the series, where you can simply walk past a majority of the monsters was SH2. Then you got all butthurt, and went on your Homecoming rant; claiming that HC is the first game in the series where you have to run past the monsters, and that it's so action oriented.

i'll agree, DH focused heavily on improving the combat, but that doesn't mean the game is more action oriented than the others. if anything, that goes to SH3 with all the monsters that are thrown at you, and all the weapons you have access to. i mean you get a freaking SMG in that game.

people here just overexaggerate how much action/combat there is in HC. sure, you have more options if you choose to actually try and kill the monsters, but it's not like you're forced to fight every single one. you can just as easily run from the monsters in HC (with the exception of the schizms in the police dept) as you can in every other SH game. Like Lemex said, you just have to use "tactics" instead of simply running straight. imo, its much easier to avoid monsters in HC, seeing as it's so easy to strafe in either direction, and you also have the roll/dodge option to evade monsters.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
not overly sensitive, just didn't see the need to bring up HC since we're talking about SM here. i could care less that people hate it.


You brought up SH2 as an exception to the rule you were proposing, I countered with Homecoming. It's called inverse.

Quote:
and wow... i actually never said i sucked ass at escaping the monsters in SH. i only said you had to run from them to elude them, instead of simply walking. in my first post, i said the only game that came to mind in the series, where you can simply walk past a majority of the monsters was SH2. Then you got all butthurt, and went on your Homecoming rant; claiming that HC is the first game in the series where you have to run past the monsters, and that it's so action oriented.


Again, no butthurt, pay attention. Besides, many monsters in SH2 still need to be outRAN, and even if that's not the case, the multiple Pyramid Head chases is probably enough to make up for it, I'm sure.

I never claimed that HC is the first game where you have to run past the monsters; please read what I'm writing more closely; I'm stating that it's the only game where pretty much running from every monster isn't an option.

Quote:
i'll agree, DH focused heavily on improving the combat, but that doesn't mean the game is more action oriented than the others. if anything, that goes to SH3 with all the monsters that are thrown at you, and all the weapons you have access to. i mean you get a freaking SMG in that game.


Fair enough, but then SH3 had a stronger focus on puzzles and the like than HC did at well. SH3 is easily the second most combat-oriented game, though, at the very least.

Quote:
people here just overexaggerate how much action/combat there is in HC. sure, you have more options if you choose to actually try and kill the monsters, but it's not like you're forced to fight every single one. you can just as easily run from the monsters in HC (with the exception of the schizms in the police dept) as you can in every other SH game. Like Lemex said, you just have to use "tactics" instead of simply running straight. imo, its much easier to avoid monsters in HC, seeing as it's so easy to strafe in either direction, and you also have the roll/dodge option to evade monsters.


They also will chase you longer, limited not so much to "screens" but to rooms and areas, so a monster can literally chase you from one end of town to the other if there's no door in the way. The monsters are significantly harder to shake and significantly more aggressive, and if you run instead of dealing with them, you can have a large mob in no time.

Running isn't impossible, but the game does more to discourage it.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
AuraTwilight wrote:
You brought up SH2 as an exception to the rule you were proposing, I countered with Homecoming. It's called inverse.


But why counter by bashing Homecoming? it makes no sense. it's not like i was shitting on SH2 or anything. There was an off topic discussion about whether combat was important to the series, and i simply singled out SH2 as the one game where you can walk past a number of the monsters, therefore making combat irrelevant. i wasn't bringing it up as a negative thing; imo SH2 would still be just as great without it. the only thing in SH2 that scared me was PH (whom you can't kill), and even then you could walk away to avoid him in the Labyrinth.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Again, no butthurt, pay attention. Besides, many monsters in SH2 still need to be outRAN, and even if that's not the case, the multiple Pyramid Head chases is probably enough to make up for it, I'm sure.

I never claimed that HC is the first game where you have to run past the monsters; please read what I'm writing more closely; I'm stating that it's the only game where pretty much running from every monster isn't an option.


duh, i never said you didn't have to run from any of them, but imo there's really only 1, and 2 if you count the PH chase sequences. the only monster that comes to mind is the abstract daddy.

and to quote part of your rant --"The only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat is in Homecoming. This is mainly due to the fact that it's the only game where you can't literally walk away from a number of the monsters in the game."

again, kinda pointless for you to bring up HC as i never said that combat was as important to SH as the story and atmosphere. i believe i did put it behind those two in regards to its importance. i could also counter by saying you can walk right past the nurses if you turn off your flashlight, and you can also easily walk away from Smog. so... there's two you forgot about. therefore it's not as action oriented as some make it out to be.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Fair enough, but then SH3 had a stronger focus on puzzles and the like than HC did at well. SH3 is easily the second most combat-oriented game, though, at the very least..


i agree, SH3 had some great puzzles. Homecoming's puzzles flat out stunk. the only one i actually liked was the one in the prison, and it's only tough due to the consequences of being wrong.

AuraTwilight wrote:
They also will chase you longer, limited not so much to "screens" but to rooms and areas, so a monster can literally chase you from one end of town to the other if there's no door in the way. The monsters are significantly harder to shake and significantly more aggressive, and if you run instead of dealing with them, you can have a large mob in no time.

Running isn't impossible, but the game does more to discourage it.


i'll agree with you there, but even on my speed runs of HC (where i wouldn't fight), i always managed to get into the town hall, Alex's house, or Fitch's office before the schizms and Ferals would catch me. they may get a hit or two on me, but that's about it. but yeah, i guess if you shake them and sit around, you'd have a mob around you in no time.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
But why counter by bashing Homecoming? it makes no sense. it's not like i was shitting on SH2 or anything. There was an off topic discussion about whether combat was important to the series, and i simply singled out SH2 as the one game where you can walk past a number of the monsters, therefore making combat irrelevant. i wasn't bringing it up as a negative thing; imo SH2 would still be just as great without it. the only thing in SH2 that scared me was PH (whom you can't kill), and even then you could walk away to avoid him in the Labyrinth.


I AM NOT BASHING HOMECOMING. Are you deaf?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 14 Apr 2006
Notes left: 318
Last seen at: Old Silent Hill
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I AM NOT BASHING HOMECOMING. Are you deaf?


Don't you mean blind? :wink:

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Now the dream of this life must end, and so, too, must the dreamers within it.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
Skele, why on earth are you being so antagonistic? Aura didn't even bash Homecoming in the first place, and he's simply pointing out that more important than the combat was the atmosphere and storyline; the combat seemed to be nearly an afterthought because they were most focused on, again, the storyline and atmosphere.

Quote:
People who claim the combat was ever important to the series are kidding themselves. Just because you were really scared by the combat, doesn't mean it was ever important. It was always there as a clunky tool that failed to instill fear, and add frustration. The only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat is in Homecoming. This is mainly due to the fact that it's the only game where you can't literally walk away from a number of the monsters in the game.


Where is that bashing Homecoming? It's simply stating that it is the most combat-intensive of the series thus far, and doesn't say anything negative about the game.

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Last edited by Yuki on 27 May 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
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I could see how Skele saw it as a bad thing, because Aura included "Just because you..." which never ends well ;)

He wasn't bashing Homecoming.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
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The concept was great and a step forward for the series, but it's a concept that can only be used once. I'm sure none of us would want to go thru a mental evaluation everytime we play a SH game. It's like SH2 in that in how the story was great, but it should've only been used once. Homecoming to a lesser extent kinda tried to ride on the storyline of SH2, and it kinda made the story a wee bit predictable towards the middle to the later half of the game.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 25 May 2009
Notes left: 276
I guess for users like Aura trolling is a good substitute for debating.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2006
Notes left: 465
^ Erm ... Aura wasn't trolling ... have you read the last few pages?


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
Yuki wrote:
Skele, why on earth are you being so antagonistic? Aura didn't even bash Homecoming in the first place, and he's simply pointing out that more important than the combat was the atmosphere and storyline; the combat seemed to be nearly an afterthought because they were most focused on, again, the storyline and atmosphere.

Quote:
People who claim the combat was ever important to the series are kidding themselves. Just because you were really scared by the combat, doesn't mean it was ever important. It was always there as a clunky tool that failed to instill fear, and add frustration. The only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat is in Homecoming. This is mainly due to the fact that it's the only game where you can't literally walk away from a number of the monsters in the game.


Where is that bashing Homecoming? It's simply stating that it is the most combat-intensive of the series thus far, and doesn't say anything negative about the game.


Yuki, i guess you didn't read my posts where i said exactly the same thing? that as far as importance goes, combat comes in 3rd right behind story, and atmopshere? if you didn't see it the first time, read through them again.

my whole point was that even though not everyone cared for it, combat had always been used as another way to instill fear, and add tension in the games. never did i say it was the most important thing, or that it's absolutely needed in the series. I brought up SH2 as the lone SH game where combat wasn't important at all, and not really needed to instill fear. This is due to how easy it is to avoid just about every monster in that game. it wasn't a knock on SH2, nor was i implying that not having combat in SH2 to be a bad thing. hell if anything, what i said helped his argument! yet he still went on with his silly little rant, while mocking me.

lastly, Aura's whole stance was that combat isn't important to the series, and that it was always there as a "clunky tool that failed to instill fear, and add frustration." then right after that sentence he brings up Homecoming, stating it's "the only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat..." how is that NOT bashing it?


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2006
Notes left: 465
Quote:
"the only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat..." how is that NOT bashing it?


How the hell is that bashing it?
It's just stating that the combat in the game is more prevalent and relevant to the story.


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2004
Notes left: 1538
Last seen at: VA
Lemex wrote:
Quote:
"the only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat..." how is that NOT bashing it?


How the hell is that bashing it?
It's just stating that the combat in the game is more prevalent and relevant to the story.


people should stop taking that one sentence out of context. if i said "Brunette women are just really unattractive, butt ugly women. Their hair color is atrocious, and just because you find brunette's attractive, doesn't mean a single brunette gal is good loking. Both of your sisters are brunette's, and you are as well. This is probably due to the fact that your mother, and father are both brunette." i don't think anyone would think i was saying something nice.

read his entire post.

"People who claim the combat was ever important to the series are kidding themselves. Just because you were really scared by the combat, doesn't mean it was ever important. It was always there as a clunky tool that failed to instill fear, and add frustration. The only game in the series where combat really takes the frontseat is in Homecoming. This is mainly due to the fact that it's the only game where you can't literally walk away from a number of the monsters in the game."

also, if he is just mentioning Homecoming, and sharing his opinion about it being the most action oriented SH game, then what's his take on it? in my example where i brought up SH2, i made it clear that combat was unneeded in Sh2, but that the game would be great with, or without it.
i can only go by what was mentioned in this rant, prior to him bringing it up HC, in which he believes combat has always been "clunky" and "frustrating" in the SH series. nothing in that paragraph would lead me to believe he viewed HC being mainly combat oriented as a good thing. but sure, he's not bashing it :)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
Notes left: 3535
Shacknasty wrote:
I guess for users like Aura trolling is a good substitute for debating.


AuraTwilight doesn't fuck around. He's one of the best members on this forum, it's just that he rocks ass at crushing people in debates. Just because on loses, doesn't mean he/she should actually bitch and whine and call users "trollers" about it.

Now, am I trolling? I'm just defending him :)


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