Theory on Lisa Garland
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- ashatteredmemory
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Theory on Lisa Garland
As we all try to figure out what every person means in SHSM, ive been thinking about Lisa Garland.
First, she brings us to her appartement after her car crash. She asks us to get her some pills, and goes to sleep.
Just when we are about to enter the Mall, we get a call from her, pleading for her help. However, we get there too late, Lisa dies and Cybil shows up. Cybil exclaims that Harry isn't Harry, and everything gets frozen again.
Eventually, we get inside the mall, and we get to hear that a specific somebody killed someonelse.
But what's very interesting is the fact that Lisa calls at the moment we want to enter the Mall, but why just then? I think Lisa is Cheryl's manifestation of Innocence and Dreams. It is possible that Cheryl wanted to become a Nurse (look at all the rookie magazines in Lisa's appartement), and this is strengthened by the fact Lisa (as a nurse) really should know not to go to sleep with a headwound.
But in the Mall, Cheryl lost her innocence, as she killed someone (Portland case, near the end); and because of that, she can't realize her dreams, thus Lisa dies.
Cybil appears again as a symbol that Harry can't be the knight in shining armor that can save everyone and everything, and again confronting Cheryl that Harry isn't the real Harry.
First, she brings us to her appartement after her car crash. She asks us to get her some pills, and goes to sleep.
Just when we are about to enter the Mall, we get a call from her, pleading for her help. However, we get there too late, Lisa dies and Cybil shows up. Cybil exclaims that Harry isn't Harry, and everything gets frozen again.
Eventually, we get inside the mall, and we get to hear that a specific somebody killed someonelse.
But what's very interesting is the fact that Lisa calls at the moment we want to enter the Mall, but why just then? I think Lisa is Cheryl's manifestation of Innocence and Dreams. It is possible that Cheryl wanted to become a Nurse (look at all the rookie magazines in Lisa's appartement), and this is strengthened by the fact Lisa (as a nurse) really should know not to go to sleep with a headwound.
But in the Mall, Cheryl lost her innocence, as she killed someone (Portland case, near the end); and because of that, she can't realize her dreams, thus Lisa dies.
Cybil appears again as a symbol that Harry can't be the knight in shining armor that can save everyone and everything, and again confronting Cheryl that Harry isn't the real Harry.
"Grown-ups tell kids there's no such thing as monsters, that the Bogeyman is just make-believe, and there's nothing hiding under their beds, but that's a lie. Because I've seen 'em." - Murphy Pendleton
- AuraTwilight
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I don't think so. There's never any indication that Cheryl every wanted to be a nurse, and Lisa is far from innocent.
Consider the psychological test that clearly relates to Lisa. It's all about how to place blame, and how Cheryl beats herself up about her past, and feels guilt over things she has no control over.
What does this directly connect to? Harry's death, and the fact that Cheryl feels responsible for it, even though she had no way of doing anything to prevent it.
Lisa, as a facet of Cheryl's personality, represents Cheryl's guilt, and her need to place the blame on herself, along with her roundabout rationalizations to escape that guilt.
Harry, acting as a sort of avatar to take us through Cheryl's thoughts and emotions, is the one who is given "responsibility" for Lisa's death, even though there was literally nothing he could do to help her. Cybil even shows up and places the blame on Harry. Cybil, who's demonstrated herself as representing Cheryl's conscience and the part of her that seeks the truth, blames the construct representing Cheryl's self-perceptions.
So what do we have here? We have Lisa (Harry) dying, and Harry (Cheryl) is receiving the blame and being persecuted over it by Cybil (her conscience).
Accompanying this is the revelation that "You're not Harry Mason!" Because, as our little exercise has shown, Harry is dead, and so Harry cannot represent Harry in this scene.
Consider the psychological test that clearly relates to Lisa. It's all about how to place blame, and how Cheryl beats herself up about her past, and feels guilt over things she has no control over.
What does this directly connect to? Harry's death, and the fact that Cheryl feels responsible for it, even though she had no way of doing anything to prevent it.
Lisa, as a facet of Cheryl's personality, represents Cheryl's guilt, and her need to place the blame on herself, along with her roundabout rationalizations to escape that guilt.
Harry, acting as a sort of avatar to take us through Cheryl's thoughts and emotions, is the one who is given "responsibility" for Lisa's death, even though there was literally nothing he could do to help her. Cybil even shows up and places the blame on Harry. Cybil, who's demonstrated herself as representing Cheryl's conscience and the part of her that seeks the truth, blames the construct representing Cheryl's self-perceptions.
So what do we have here? We have Lisa (Harry) dying, and Harry (Cheryl) is receiving the blame and being persecuted over it by Cybil (her conscience).
Accompanying this is the revelation that "You're not Harry Mason!" Because, as our little exercise has shown, Harry is dead, and so Harry cannot represent Harry in this scene.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
Moreover, Lisa's significance extends back to SH1. In that game, Lisa dies, and she'll die no matter what you do (i.e. all four serious endings). Even in Origins, the ingredients for her death are out on display in a manner pretty much designed to disgust her fans (Climax seems to have this thing about clipping her wings).
So, we arrive at Shattered Memories, where Lisa isn't taking care of a crispy little girl for a minor drug lord partnered with a dangerous cult. We, being by-and-large fond of Lisa, want to see her have a happy ending where she doesn't die. Yet, she does. Moreover, she dies in the exact same manner as SH1 (and how she will die in Origins, and how she already died in SH3), and she'll die in that manner whether you give her the pill she asks for or not.
Taking all four versions of Silent Hill, metafictionally, Lisa's death is unavoidable and inevitable, and it happens over and over again. No matter how much we love her, Lisa will always be dead.
In the same vein, no matter how many revisions of reality Cheryl goes through, her dad is still dead.
So, we arrive at Shattered Memories, where Lisa isn't taking care of a crispy little girl for a minor drug lord partnered with a dangerous cult. We, being by-and-large fond of Lisa, want to see her have a happy ending where she doesn't die. Yet, she does. Moreover, she dies in the exact same manner as SH1 (and how she will die in Origins, and how she already died in SH3), and she'll die in that manner whether you give her the pill she asks for or not.
Taking all four versions of Silent Hill, metafictionally, Lisa's death is unavoidable and inevitable, and it happens over and over again. No matter how much we love her, Lisa will always be dead.
In the same vein, no matter how many revisions of reality Cheryl goes through, her dad is still dead.
- AuraTwilight
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In fairness to Climax, Team Silent never intended her to be as angelic and lovable as the fanbase seems to have received her.(Climax seems to have this thing about clipping her wings).
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU ;____;No matter how much we love her, Lisa will always be dead.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
You're right, as Team Silent put in that diary that demonstrated her in withdrawal. Angels aren't into hallucinogens, and all that. Oh, and I don't begrudge Climax this at all. At heart, I'm an iconoclast, so I wholly support this bid to demonstrate that Lisa was a real person with very real problems.AuraTwilight wrote:In fairness to Climax, Team Silent never intended her to be as angelic and lovable as the fanbase seems to have received her.(Climax seems to have this thing about clipping her wings).
Actually, I could draw some parallel between her and Laura Palmer, what with the dissonance between her public image (to the Twin Peaks residents and the SH fanbase, respectively) and her troubled reality.
- ashatteredmemory
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It is true that there's no indication of Cheryl wanting to be a nurse, but it still is a possibility.AuraTwilight wrote:I don't think so. There's never any indication that Cheryl every wanted to be a nurse, and Lisa is far from innocent.
Consider the psychological test that clearly relates to Lisa. It's all about how to place blame, and how Cheryl beats herself up about her past, and feels guilt over things she has no control over.
What does this directly connect to? Harry's death, and the fact that Cheryl feels responsible for it, even though she had no way of doing anything to prevent it.
Lisa, as a facet of Cheryl's personality, represents Cheryl's guilt, and her need to place the blame on herself, along with her roundabout rationalizations to escape that guilt.
Harry, acting as a sort of avatar to take us through Cheryl's thoughts and emotions, is the one who is given "responsibility" for Lisa's death, even though there was literally nothing he could do to help her. Cybil even shows up and places the blame on Harry. Cybil, who's demonstrated herself as representing Cheryl's conscience and the part of her that seeks the truth, blames the construct representing Cheryl's self-perceptions.
So what do we have here? We have Lisa (Harry) dying, and Harry (Cheryl) is receiving the blame and being persecuted over it by Cybil (her conscience).
Accompanying this is the revelation that "You're not Harry Mason!" Because, as our little exercise has shown, Harry is dead, and so Harry cannot represent Harry in this scene.
You're theory is also very nice, but it doesn't totally dismiss mine, but still both are just theories
I just found it very intriguing she calls just as we want to enter the mall...
"Grown-ups tell kids there's no such thing as monsters, that the Bogeyman is just make-believe, and there's nothing hiding under their beds, but that's a lie. Because I've seen 'em." - Murphy Pendleton
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Well, of course she does. Everything that happens is an attempt to impede Harry's progress.
And my theory has the added benefit of not needing to make any assumptions about the unsaid aspects of Cheryl's psyche. The only reason this all involves Lisa is because, most likely, Lisa is someone Harry slept with and/or is the nurse that took care of Cheryl when she was in the hospital.
And my theory has the added benefit of not needing to make any assumptions about the unsaid aspects of Cheryl's psyche. The only reason this all involves Lisa is because, most likely, Lisa is someone Harry slept with and/or is the nurse that took care of Cheryl when she was in the hospital.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Reminds me of what Kaufman says at the end about pale freaks at home watching movies on loop.Taking all four versions of Silent Hill, metafictionally, Lisa's death is unavoidable and inevitable, and it happens over and over again. No matter how much we love her, Lisa will always be dead.
this made me LOL!FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU ;____;
Anyway, I just noticed that when you go outside the room where you trigger the cutscene where you give the pills to Lisa, THE PILL TURNS WHITE! Or was that just my eyes.
I suppose I've never really got the angelic representation people attach to Lisa in SH1. I like her a lot but the thing that always interested me the most is that when she was alive, she basically showed that someone with a strong enough vice will do whatever is asked of them to get what they need. The fact that she wasn't the pure nurse just wanting to help Alessa to be a good person is what made her interesting to me. She put up with all the weird shit going on just so she could get drugs and not have them kill her.
Rant aside: I do very much like Aura's interpretation of Lisa in SM. It most definitely makes sense considering what happens. I kind take it as Cheryl even injecting a bit of herself into the majority of the characters we meet up with in the game, as this is her delusion. I mainly speak of the whole self medicating rant Lisa gives inside the apartment, and how I don't doubt Cheryl attempted at some point to use substances to try and cloud out the guilt she feels over her father's death.
Rant aside: I do very much like Aura's interpretation of Lisa in SM. It most definitely makes sense considering what happens. I kind take it as Cheryl even injecting a bit of herself into the majority of the characters we meet up with in the game, as this is her delusion. I mainly speak of the whole self medicating rant Lisa gives inside the apartment, and how I don't doubt Cheryl attempted at some point to use substances to try and cloud out the guilt she feels over her father's death.
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I've never seen that happen. What version of the game did you play?Anyway, I just noticed that when you go outside the room where you trigger the cutscene where you give the pills to Lisa, THE PILL TURNS WHITE! Or was that just my eyes.
And Calamity, I very much agree with your comments. It's pretty clear that the girls (Cybil, Michelle, Dahlia, Lisa) all represent Cheryl in a very direct way; all three of them are attracted to men like their father.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
- ashatteredmemory
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- ashatteredmemory
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EXACTLY!AuraTwilight wrote:In fairness to Climax, Team Silent never intended her to be as angelic and lovable as the fanbase seems to have received her.(Climax seems to have this thing about clipping her wings).
The woman's a bloody junkie !
She didn't take care of Alessa because she wanted to , but because she needed her dose!
Not exactly a symbol of angelic love!
Heather Mason , the only girl who will face deadly danger
by going to the mall for hair bleach !!
[img]http://furnation.com/mapdark/maplick.gif[/img]
by going to the mall for hair bleach !!
[img]http://furnation.com/mapdark/maplick.gif[/img]
- JuriDawn
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Regardless of Lisa's reason for doing so, Heather tells us that she was "heavenly" to Alessa while the child was hospitalized. I like to think that even though she had a drug habit, Lisa was at least decent enough to care about Alessa's pain. Yeah, she was grossed out by the fact that her patient's wounds never seemed to heal, and sure the stress was ultimately too much to allow her to continue, but that's understandable.
Heather's comment makes me think that Lisa's drug habit was kept more or less separate from her duties. (Heather does recall that Lisa got a "little weird") I doubt she would inspire any fond memories if she was tripping balls while changing Alessa's bandages. Besides, the only really nasty hallucinations that Lisa writes about in her diary occur after she's quit the hospital (and lost her source of PTV) and is suffering from withdrawal.
Heather's comment makes me think that Lisa's drug habit was kept more or less separate from her duties. (Heather does recall that Lisa got a "little weird") I doubt she would inspire any fond memories if she was tripping balls while changing Alessa's bandages. Besides, the only really nasty hallucinations that Lisa writes about in her diary occur after she's quit the hospital (and lost her source of PTV) and is suffering from withdrawal.
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I agree with everything Aura said.
I think Lisa is also a judgmental and self-critical aspect of Cheryl’s personality. “I tend to go for men who look like my dad, and then regret it the morning after.†– Clearly a stab at Cheryl’s sexuality.
“Dirty, creepy bugs?â€
-“No, butterflies! Pretty bugs!â€
“Still creepy.â€
Hell, not even Cheryl’s childhood hobbies are safe.
EDIT: About the whole Lisa being heavenly thing, we must understand Alessa’s situation. She’s in constant unrelenting pain, anything anyone does to relieve it would like be considered “heavenlyâ€.
That, coupled with Alessa’s love starved nature, current isolation and the fact she has likely never received any physical (or emotional) affection from an adult before, she could be easily mistaking Lisa doing her duties for kindness, if not for affection even. I don’t think Lisa would even need to do her job all that well for something like that to happen, considering Alessa’s personality as well as her state of mind.
I think Lisa is also a judgmental and self-critical aspect of Cheryl’s personality. “I tend to go for men who look like my dad, and then regret it the morning after.†– Clearly a stab at Cheryl’s sexuality.
“Dirty, creepy bugs?â€
-“No, butterflies! Pretty bugs!â€
“Still creepy.â€
Hell, not even Cheryl’s childhood hobbies are safe.
EDIT: About the whole Lisa being heavenly thing, we must understand Alessa’s situation. She’s in constant unrelenting pain, anything anyone does to relieve it would like be considered “heavenlyâ€.
That, coupled with Alessa’s love starved nature, current isolation and the fact she has likely never received any physical (or emotional) affection from an adult before, she could be easily mistaking Lisa doing her duties for kindness, if not for affection even. I don’t think Lisa would even need to do her job all that well for something like that to happen, considering Alessa’s personality as well as her state of mind.
Lisa never said that in any of my playthroughs, so i'd say you can't generally says she's representing that fix aspect. It depends on "how you play the game".Arsonist wrote:I think Lisa is also a judgmental and self-critical aspect of Cheryl’s personality. “I tend to go for men who look like my dad, and then regret it the morning after.†– Clearly a stab at Cheryl’s sexuality.
Michelle said that she liked guys who are like her father.
there's comfort in silence
True, but from what I remember she still maintains her generally negative and snarky attitude. If I’m not mistaken, she makes a sarcastic comment about both car-crashes, her appearance and doctors.Lisa never said that in any of my playthroughs, so i'd say you can't generally says she's representing that fix aspect. It depends on "how you play the game".
Even so, everyone’s actions may vary, but their core is always the same. Cybil, gentle or rough is rational, Michelle, more or less into John is still clinging to the past, Dahlia, horny or drunk, hysterical or evasive is still a negative and abrasive character delaying Harry, Lisa, whether it’s about sexual preferences, car crashes, her appearance, doctors, her work or childhood insect collections, she is still snarky and negative.
Michelle does not feel guilty about it, or regrets it. She accepts her preferences but does not seem to let them influence her life.Michelle said that she liked guys who are like her father.
Lisa on the other hand is critical about her preferences. Or at least that’s the impression I’ve got from the tone of her voice and continuation of the sentence (and then I regret it the morning after).
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