Theory on Lisa Garland

[SHF]

^
This is a good theory, but my interpretation is that Lisa's death symbolizes Cheryl coming to terms with reality, and realizing that everything she believes is merely a delusion she created, probably as a coping mechanism.
Cheryl realizes that "Lisa" is a figment of her mind, so therefore she doesn't need Lisa, and "kills" her off so to speak.
This is just my opinion though.[/quote]

I would disagree a bit. She doesn't seem to come to terms with reality until the end of the game, because otherwise Kaufmann wouldn't have gotten so angry with her. I think Lisa's death--beyond Harry's control--is just a parallel of how Harry's death wasn't under Cheryl's control.[/quote]

^
I said she is COMING to terms with reality, as in the process of, not that she has gotten there 100%.
It's a progression.

[AuraTwilight]

But the thing is it doesn't coincide with Kauffman's speech whatsoever, and it doesn't really have any cues of Cheryl coming to terms with reality, since we still have this whole "YOU KILLED HER" thing that's not actually true; it also doesnt' factor in how you can choose which pills to give Lisa.

[mikefile]

I think it's more simple than we are making it out to be. From the first meeting with Lisa we see she had a car crash, meaning: it has to do something with Harry. She repeats a multiple of times: "I wasn't supposed to be here.", meaning: Cheryl beating herself up for her presence during the car crash. This part clearly refers to guilt- as we see it from Kauffman's "lesson". Lisa throws herself in Harry's arms, just like Michelle; meaning: Lisa represents Cheryl in this case (since she is a real person, not a fabrication). We also know it from the chit chat with Harry: "I like men who look like my father...". She mentions the lanlord has a thing for nurses, so clearly we can realize she is a simple whore (although it gets more clear in the end). Since Cheryl feels guilty, she will subconsciously want to punish herself by going to sleep after having a F****** head trauma!! So.. no matter what pill you give her, she dies; no matter if you are guilty or not she dies and YOU WILL FEEL GUILTY!.. That's also everything about Kauffman's short "lesson"- nor Wilhelm nor the prince are guilty for the accident, the bull would have killed her either way. The pills are here just to make you feel guilty, just the way Cheryl felt guilty after the car crash.
Although all of this is mostly about Cheryl feeling responsible for her father's death there is a small thing that explains the thing about Lisa. There has to be a reason why she chose Lisa, right? If that was all to it, it could have been also Michelle or Cybil.. The thing is that it is very likely that Cheryl despised Lisa. Why? Because:
1) She slept with her father.
2) She most likely took care of her after the glass accident.
3) She took care of her after the worst day of her life, and as we know: Cheryl hated everyone who participated on splitting her away from her father.
+ How would you feel if the whore that screwed your dead father took now care of you.. it's like pouring salt on an open wound.

So.. she had plenty of reasons why to hate Lisa.. and that's also one of the reason why she chose her to be the manifestation that dies (in the same way her father did) to represent her unfounded guilt.
Summing up, there are 2 facts here:
1) Lisa is used to represent the whole guilt thing.
2) Lisa is chosen 'cause of being despised.

[AuraTwilight]

Lisa throws herself in Harry's arms, just like Michelle; meaning: Lisa represents Cheryl in this case (since she is a real person, not a fabrication).

No, she's not.

She mentions the lanlord has a thing for nurses, so clearly we can realize she is a simple whore (although it gets more clear in the end).

That comment implies no such thing. It simply means the landlord is a pervert with a fetish and gave her a discount. Probably so he can peep through a secret hole, for all we know.

There has to be a reason why she chose Lisa, right? If that was all to it, it could have been also Michelle or Cybil.. The thing is that it is very likely that Cheryl despised Lisa.

Or, more likely, Cybil and Michelle already have jobs to do and dying will get in the way of accomplishing that.

[KoRn_Child]

I would literally die laughing if the devs came out and said that they only added Lisa for nostalgia reasons.

No but seriously she's probably there to represent Cheryl's irrational guilt towards her parents splitting/Harry's death.

[Yuki]

I think it's more simple than we are making it out to be. From the first meeting with Lisa we see she had a car crash, meaning: it has to do something with Harry. She repeats a multiple of times: "I wasn't supposed to be here.", meaning: Cheryl beating herself up for her presence during the car crash.

Cheryl was not present when Harry died.

[mikefile]

No, she's not.

Yes, she is. Not the one we see in the game, but Lisa is a real person. You said it yourself:

Lisa is someone Harry slept with and/or is the nurse that took care of Cheryl when she was in the hospital.

+ the Sleaze and sirens ending.

That comment implies no such thing. It simply means the landlord is a pervert with a fetish and gave her a discount. Probably so he can peep through a secret hole, for all we know.

Ok, maybe I was too direct. I just claimed that this fact may imply such thing since we already know she slept with Harry (AND probably Michelle ). So.. if there was all to it the comment wouldn't imply such thing.. but since we've got other facts, we can considerate it as a part of the unit.
It's like saying that Michelle disappears from the club 'cause the aliens abducted her and replaced her with another one disguised in Dahlia. But we don't, 'cause we're acquainted with the full facts.

Or, more likely, Cybil and Michelle already have jobs to do and dying will get in the way of accomplishing that.

And that's why we have Lisa.

[AuraTwilight]

Yes, she is. Not the one we see in the game, but Lisa is a real person. You said it yourself:

Then Harry is a real person, and not a fabrication, we just don't see him in the game. Why do you make a distinction between the two characters, otherwise?

Ok, maybe I was too direct. I just claimed that this fact may imply such thing since we already know she slept with Harry (AND probably Michelle ). So.. if there was all to it the comment wouldn't imply such thing.. but since we've got other facts, we can considerate it as a part of the unit.

This is only true in one ending. John shot down my "All endings are true in every ending" playthrough personally. I know, bummer.

It's like saying that Michelle disappears from the club 'cause the aliens abducted her and replaced her with another one disguised in Dahlia. But we don't, 'cause we're acquainted with the full facts.

Funny story, Shattered Memories was the first Silent Hill game my best friend ever played, and at this scene her theory was that Michelle and Dahlia are two people with split personalities. "How do you explain the shapechanging and Dahlia dying a couple times?" "....Uh. She's a ghost."

[mikefile]

Why do you make a distinction between the two characters, otherwise?

I just wanted to point out that Lisa is one of the female characters that represent Cheryl, neverless her being a real person. Lisa is not a genuine avatar, like.. I dunno.. Cybil (though, there is no proof that she isn't).

"....Uh. She's a ghost."

LOL. I just love listening outsider's explanations about SH.. (or from some members)-- I don't wanna be mean, though..

[AuraTwilight]

I just wanted to point out that Lisa is one of the female characters that represent Cheryl, neverless her being a real person. Lisa is not a genuine avatar, like.. I dunno.. Cybil (though, there is no proof that she isn't).

I'm pretty sure every female character represents aspects of Cheryl. Which makes the Oedipus theory really, really fucking convincing despite Tom admitting it never crossed his mind.

LOL. I just love listening outsider's explanations about SH.. (or from some members)-- I don't wanna be mean, though..

I'm the same way. She's my childhood friend and she has special needs due to mental disability, so it was like....I don't know, adorable?

[Kenji]

I just wanted to point out that Lisa is one of the female characters that represent Cheryl, neverless her being a real person. Lisa is not a genuine avatar, like.. I dunno.. Cybil (though, there is no proof that she isn't).

I'm pretty sure every female character represents aspects of Cheryl. Which makes the Oedipus theory really, really fucking convincing despite Tom admitting it never crossed his mind.

Tomm's pretty awesome, like that. He understands where the Silent Hill mythology really comes from. A pettier man would belittle that theory because it doesn't match what he, personally, would rather see.

[mikefile]

I'm pretty sure every female character represents aspects of Cheryl. Which makes the Oedipus theory really, really fucking convincing despite Tom admitting it never crossed his mind.

Of course it does.. its definition totally matches Cheryl's psyche profile, although I think we should be talking about the Electra complex or the negative Oedipus complex.

P.S. Guys, I'm kinda newish here or I'm just undiscerning, but.. who the eff is Tom/m ? It firstly seemed that it is about Hulett that you're talking.... but from yr context it doesn't seem to be.. ?!

[SilentRobert23]

I'm pretty sure every female character represents aspects of Cheryl. Which makes the Oedipus theory really, really fucking convincing despite Tom admitting it never crossed his mind.

Of course it does.. its definition totally matches Cheryl's psyche profile, although I think we should be talking about the Electra complex or the negative Oedipus complex.

P.S. Guys, I'm kinda newish here or I'm just undiscerning, but.. who the eff is Tom/m ? It firstly seemed that it is about Hulett that you're talking.... but from yr context it doesn't seem to be.. ?!

Could be Tom Waltz?

[Kenji]

There are far too many Toms of importance in this fandom.

I think they need to be reduced.

[AuraTwilight]

Or merged into one super Tom.

[mikefile]

Guys: FUCK YOU ALL.. I'm changing my username into TOM!

[AuraTwilight]

You shall be born anew as tomfile

[SHF]

I still believe it means Cheryl is progressing through her sessions, and is beginning to see that what's in her head is just a hallucination.
She doesn't "need" Lisa anymore, so she is "killed" off.
Also, Lisa's choice of death ( by abusing drugs) symbolizes Cheryl's drug abuse.
That's just my theory.

[Soulless-Shadow]

I still believe it means Cheryl is progressing through her sessions, and is beginning to see that what's in her head is just a hallucination.
She doesn't "need" Lisa anymore, so she is "killed" off.
Also, Lisa's choice of death ( by abusing drugs) symbolizes Cheryl's drug abuse.
That's just my theory.

But why would Cheryl "kill off" a character that only just popped up and contributed little more than a brief discussion about liking men that remind her of her father? Surely if killing off a character was symbolic of progress, it would be someone who has been around longer and contributed more to the story. It seems to me that Lisa's purpose was just to pop up and die (the whole "guilt" thing as mentioned by other people). If she had any other purpose, she would have been around longer or served it before dying.

[SHF]

But why would Cheryl "kill off" a character that only just popped up and contributed little more than a brief discussion about liking men that remind her of her father? Surely if killing off a character was symbolic of progress, it would be someone who has been around longer and contributed more to the story. It seems to me that Lisa's purpose was just to pop up and die (the whole "guilt" thing as mentioned by other people). If she had any other purpose, she would have been around longer or served it before dying.[/quote]

First, the Lisa in the game is based off of Cheryl's nurse when she ( Alessa) cut herself on Harry's drinking glass when they were on vacation.

Lisa only exists because Cheryl created her. Once Cheryl accepted that fact, Lisa has no need to exist any more. ( this is what I meant when Cheryl "kills" her off, she accepts that these manifestations are not reality)

The reason why Lisa dies from overdosing on pills symbolizes Cheryl's use of drugs.