heres something, (spoilers)

Ten years after the original game and Harry's still searching for his daughter.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
clips
Woodside Apartments Janitor
Posts: 1241
Joined: 21 May 2010

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by clips »

I don't understand why it bothers people so bad that there's fans that wanna think this.
I don't think it's really a problem..it just becomes an issue if this thing takes a life of it's own and folks want to push aspects of it as canon with the original universe,...it just doesn't work.
User avatar
SHF
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2301
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Gender: Trans male

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by SHF »

AuraTwilight wrote:
helldescent wrote:Harry never mentions Dr. Kaufman.
Its not illegal at all for a therapist to deal with a patients parents. Whats illegal is sharing information about the patient to the parents.
A Therapist isn't supposed to counsel someone he has a personal connection to because it can get in the way of an unbiased therapy and cause the therapist to sympathize too much with the client..
Exactly. As a therapist, there would be no bias. If there were bias, then its illegal.
My mom is allowed to talk to my psychologist, just not about my issues. Thats not illegal.
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]
User avatar
SilentWren
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2249
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Gender: Female
Location: The Rabbit Hole

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by SilentWren »

@clips *sage nod*

I don't really believe it myself, I'm just saying I can understand how somebody could. It was a little confusing beating SM for the first time, and I sort of thought it for a little bit.

*shrugs*
at least it's better than everyone bickering over fungo? Idk. As far as trying to fit SM into the canon, this is the ONLY way it possibly could....at all. As much of a long shot as it is, it's the only way to fit it in.
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 28#p674128
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

You're better than this-now you're just stretching. What does that have to with anything?
1) James never went psycho and killed Mary. SH2 is an entirely fictional account that Harry Mason from SM wrote about his friend James Sunderland. However, Mary read it and it caused a fight, causing them to need marriage counselling. :3

2) I'm obviously fucking around, dude. I'm trying to prove the point that trying to connect the two universes is stupid as hell.
Ok, give me an example of how Dr. K mark 1 and Dr. K mark 2 are similar, other than they both have the same name. It doesn't require being psychic when they aren't the same person. It's a coincidence.
Alright, then Harry isn't Harry, Cheryl isn't Cheryl, Lisa isn't Lisa, Dahlia isn't Dahlia, and Cybil isn't Cybil. The car crash dying dream actually happened to a different Harry Mason with the same name with a daughter of the same name.

You can't pick and choose, dude.
All the flashbacks at the beginning could've also been part of the fantasy.
Why in the HELL would Harry fantasize that Cheryl isn't his biological daughter? WHY? Why would he ever fucking do that?
Exactly. As a therapist, there would be no bias. If there were bias, then its illegal.
My mom is allowed to talk to my psychologist, just not about my issues. Thats not illegal.
You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
SilentWren
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2249
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Gender: Female
Location: The Rabbit Hole

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by SilentWren »

AuraTwilight wrote: Why in the HELL would Harry fantasize that Cheryl isn't his biological daughter? WHY? Why would he ever fucking do that?
I just about pissed myself laughing at that.
Seriously, if I never liked you before, I do now. :lol:
I had this whole thing planned about Cheryl representing the only peace in his life, and she therefor had to be "from somewhere else." Then I was going to get into the U.F.O. endings and everything....
Just, fuck it. Forget the whole thing. That was pure gold, and I don't want to ruin it by keeping up the charade. I just...seriously, I have no idea why that was so funny, but it so was. You get virtual cake for that one. *gives cake*

But back on topic:
Ok, helldescent. It doesn't look like we can change your mind on this matter. You get *props* for sticking it out. Can you at least tell us why it's so important to you that Shattered Memories fits into the first game? With Harry dieing and all, it's obvious that it's a different Cheryl/Heather than the first and third games. I'm pretty sure the whole thing is bust, when it comes to comparing to the other games.
I can somewhat understand where you're coming from, but I just don't understand the insistence. If it was confirmed that it's another universe, why bother? I'm sure it's a great game (I didn't play it much, myself) but I don't think they were trying to add to the 1-4 story line with it.
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 28#p674128
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

Yay, cake. <3

I'd like to know the answer to that question, too. Why do people want to take such a strong, interesting character like Heather who had so much growth and overcame so much...and decide that she's actually a delusional, weak, and pathetic crybaby?
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
SilentWren
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2249
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Gender: Female
Location: The Rabbit Hole

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by SilentWren »

^You gotta admit-depending on which ending you get, they kinda did the same to Harry as well. Not all at the same time, mind you, but we had this wonderful, loving father from the first game and they made him into possibly a drunk, pansy, or man whore.

Idunno...I don't get it either. I'm sure the game had it's own merits as a reimagining, but it seemed to insult the established "awesome" versions of said characters.
The above user visits this forum *very infrequently.* If you need any type of response or answer from her, she may or may not be able to provide it in a timely manner.

Thank you for understanding. <3

http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 28#p674128
User avatar
SHF
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2301
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Gender: Trans male

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by SHF »

You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?[/quote]

Your saying that if kauffman has a connection with harry, he ( kauffman) cannot legally counsel cheryl becuase he will not have an unbiased perspective.

If this is true, then, again, as a therapist, it is his job to be unbiased. We can't assume that kauffman would be biased at all, no matter what, as its unprofessional, and illegal.
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

Just because it is unprofessional and illegal doesn't mean Kauffman can just shut off his feelings, thoughts, emotions, and opinions. He's a human being, and rather than run the risk, he'd simply just not be allowed to counsel her. It's just like how people aren't ever called to be on Jury duty for someone they know.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
Harrys_Girl
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 7376
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Gender: Female
Location: Couldn't tell you even if I tired

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by Harrys_Girl »

helldescent wrote:You have absolutely no grasp of what I'm trying to tell you. If Michael Kauffman has a personal connection to Harry Mason, any connection at all of any sort of weight, he is legally not allowed to counsel Cheryl because he does not have an unbiased perspective; he knew Harry and his own emotions towards the man, if any, might interfere in his counselling. Do you get it, now?
Your saying that if kauffman has a connection with harry, he ( kauffman) cannot legally counsel cheryl becuase he will not have an unbiased perspective.

If this is true, then, again, as a therapist, it is his job to be unbiased. We can't assume that kauffman would be biased at all, no matter what, as its unprofessional, and illegal.
It isn't illegal. Let's play on the idea that Kaufmann and Harry were best buds, then Harry died and Dahlia went to Kaufmann and asked him to help her daughter out. Kaufmann would take the case in a heartbeat because he would feel that he owed it to his old friend. It has happened a lot, both fictionally and in the real world.

BUT, if Cheryl was sent to therapy because of a court mandated appointments, then she wouldn't be sent to Kaufmann because Kaufmann would admit that he was friends w/ her father while her father was still alive and would probably refer Cheryl and Dahlia to another colleague of his. But we know Cheryl was not court mandated to therapy, because of what Kaufmann says to her:

"Just showing up shows your commitment to the process."

Not, "Oh, you chose this instead of Jail time. That is a good sign." He points out that it is Cheryl's free will and want to get better that brought her into his office.

But all of this is moot, because Kaufmann didn't know Harry. That is the point. This game takes place in a completely different universe from SH1. Kaufmann and Harry never crossed paths outside Cheryl's mind in SH: SM.
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

^You gotta admit-depending on which ending you get, they kinda did the same to Harry as well. Not all at the same time, mind you, but we had this wonderful, loving father from the first game and they made him into possibly a drunk, pansy, or man whore.
Sorry, I overlooked this. Harry's treatment isn't at all comparable because it's not the same Harry Mason. There is no continuity between the two men.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
Harrys_Girl
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 7376
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Gender: Female
Location: Couldn't tell you even if I tired

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by Harrys_Girl »

^There is basically nothing other than their ethnicity and their names. : / Oh, and the fact that they are looking for their daughter, but even that doesn't really count.
User avatar
PoemOfTheLastMoment
Gravedigger
Posts: 451
Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Gender: Male

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by PoemOfTheLastMoment »

Climax could've made it easy for the fans by making it a sequel to silent hill 3...it could have been cheryl dealing with harry's death in silent hilll 3... shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1...an alternate universe where Harry died and cheryl continues to be plagued by the memories of her father...
Now I Know, The Real Reason Why I Came To This Town....I Wonder....What Was I Afraid Of? Without You..I've Got Nothing...Now, We Can Be Together Again.....Mary.....
User avatar
Typographenia
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 1883
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by Typographenia »

PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:Climax could've made it easy for the fans by making it a sequel to silent hill 3...
Oh man, that would be the complete opposite of easy. Can you imagine how many people would flat-out lose their minds if someone told them one of the new games was a direct sequel to one of the "holy trinity?"

The storm of fan rage would be unfathomable.
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

Not to mention people completely flipping their shit over the badass, relatively stable Heather being reduced to a whiny, blubbering bitch with daddy issues.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
MariaRising
Gravedigger
Posts: 541
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Gender: Female
Location: South Carolina, USA
Contact:

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by MariaRising »

PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1
Not really. In both Bad endings
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Cheryl dies, and it's never really stated whether Harry dies or not in the Bad+ ending, but it's irrelevant because Cheryl's gone.
User avatar
Yuki
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2545
Joined: 12 Oct 2009

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by Yuki »

MariaRising wrote:
PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:shattered memories fits into the bad ending of Sh1
Not really. In both Bad endings
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Cheryl dies, and it's never really stated whether Harry dies or not in the Bad+ ending, but it's irrelevant because Cheryl's gone.
Plus,
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
Cheryl is Harry's ADOPTED daughter in Silent Hill, and she's his biological daughter--with Dahlia as his wife--in Shattered Memories. Both of those are factual in-game, and thus contradict themselves.
MariaRising
Gravedigger
Posts: 541
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Gender: Female
Location: South Carolina, USA
Contact:

Post by MariaRising »

^Precisely :D
But at any rate, a direct sequel to SH3 would've been kind of like SH:SM (with some obvious factual and storyline differences).
User avatar
PoemOfTheLastMoment
Gravedigger
Posts: 451
Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Gender: Male

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by PoemOfTheLastMoment »

The bad ending of silent hill 1 shows that harry had a dying hallucination...so everything up to that point was a construct of his imagination....that means cheryl could have been his daughter in real life...
Now I Know, The Real Reason Why I Came To This Town....I Wonder....What Was I Afraid Of? Without You..I've Got Nothing...Now, We Can Be Together Again.....Mary.....
User avatar
Yuki
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 2545
Joined: 12 Oct 2009

Re: heres something, (spoilers)

Post by Yuki »

PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:The bad ending of silent hill 1 shows that harry had a dying hallucination...so everything up to that point was a construct of his imagination....that means cheryl could have been his daughter in real life...
No.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
We're shown a cutscene before the game begins (read: before Harry even thinks about going to Silent Hill) of Harry and his wife finding a baby (Cheryl). Even if you handwave that and say his wife could be Dahlia (despite the huge design differences), the fact is that this takes place BEFORE Harry enters Silent Hill.
Keep in mind, the stuff in that spoiler tag is referring to Silent Hill 1.

Also...
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
It was said before, but it doesn't make much logical sense for Harry to suddenly see Cheryl as his adopted daughter if she was his biological one. One could argue that since it's a delusion he has no control over it, but it's a small bit more in favour of "Silent Hill and Shattered Memories are two different continuities" besides what I stated above.
Post Reply